Technology questions

First, elephants. WI humans either never evolved or went extinct before leaving Africa, then at some time in the future an intelligent species of elephant appears? Loxodonta sapiens is as intelligent as humans and has a sophisticated vocal language.

My question is - what sort of technology could these elephants develop? An elephants trunk can do fine manipulation BUT they only have one "arm" ending in a "thumb" plus one "finger". Also, they have eyes on the side of their head which might make feats involving keen eyesight tricky. If you imagine humans making stuff (like simple tools, or fire) they usually have to use both hands and look closely at what they are doing.

Elephants are herbivores, so they don't need to hunt. They eat mainly grass, also trees, fruits and seeds. There might be some kind of plausible scenario for the gradual development of elephant agriculture, but problems include the sheer volume of food needed to feed an elephant, their lack of spare time (they spend 16 hours a day eating) and their nomadic lifestyle.

The only obviously plausible elephant-tech I can think of would be using stones to make marker-signs on the ground, giving useful information ("water-hole this way"). So if you can think of anything else, please post.

Second, hunter-gatherers. WI humans never invented agriculture, or for some reason it just never caught on (in OTL agriculture spread extremely slowly - it took 5500 years to get from Sumeria to Britain so obviously people weren't massively impressed by it). What kind of technology could hunter-gatherers invent? Would they be doomed to be stuck in the stone age forever?
 
I'll pass on the intelligent elephants.

Regarding Hunter-Gatherers, I'd say that they would stay in "Stone Age" conditions purely by looking at "primitive" tribes and how they lived before coming into contact with a developed agrarian culture.

I think a surplus of food and other resources is necessary to allow a culture to develop - that comes from agriculture and subsequent trade rather than hunting
 
...maybe we should have a "before civilization" thread...

I can certainly fathom an intelligent non-primate species. I cannot fathom that species making the leap to civilization, though, without dextrous digits of some sort. Without digits, it would be virtually impossible to make fire, wheels, or knives. I suppose Loxodonta sapiens could get to Agriculture 101 -- dig up roots, plant roots in a trench, protect roots -- but fertilization, weed control, cross breeding -- I just can't see it happening.
Now I guess if you got several elephants working in concert you might be able to get something going, but that's a heck of a leap for an unciviized race to make on its own, and even though working together creates culture, a bunch of one-digit elephants are going to be passed up by smaller, multi-digit mammals 99 times out of 100.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
Peter Cowan said:
I'll pass on the intelligent elephants.

Regarding Hunter-Gatherers, I'd say that they would stay in "Stone Age" conditions purely by looking at "primitive" tribes and how they lived before coming into contact with a developed agrarian culture.

I think a surplus of food and other resources is necessary to allow a culture to develop - that comes from agriculture and subsequent trade rather than hunting

However, you don't need agriculture to create the surplus. Observing primitives as they exist now we see them only in marginal environments and so assume their cultures are only marginally productive. Most archeological evidence now says that in rich environments normal hunting gathering can produce a surplus quite readily, particularly if the local enviroment has a resource, such as obsidian, then the surplus can be increased by trade.

One theory in fact, has agriculture being a natural invention growing out of the storage of surplus in cities created by trade and a resource.

How about if the elephants sought people out and tried to live together with them. Being about 100x stronger than a person must be useful to both the person and the elephant occasionally.
 
Top