The main manufacturer of electric trucks in the 1900's was General Vehicle electric (G.V. electric). They produced 750 lbs, 1,000 lbs, 2,000 lbs, 2 ton, 3.5 ton, and 5 ton trucks, and were popular during the early 1900s for intra-city routes that didn't require gasoline car ranges. The 5-ton truck was rated at 35 miles (56 km) per charge.Obvious intent for the question, I guess. Were there any specific manufacturers in America or elsewhere that were working on the issue and could have been pioneers?
As for more modern times, Li-ion batteries weren't even invented until 1980, and took some significant development to become safe.
Since Li is such an obvious choice (light weight, good electrochemical potential) that I assume others must have tried it earlier, and failed.
Not quite; historically, the vehicles used by milkmen for daily residential milk deliveries, milk floats, generally moved from horse to electric power, since they generally only traveled a short distance (milk being milk), so range wasn't a serious concern, and as they usually operated on residential streets early in the morning noise was. Not the largest niche, but much bigger than "one-off prototypes" or "very expensive toys".To answer the OP's question the earliest you'd likely to see EVs develop is likely the mid-80s - early 90s as that's when reusable high-amperage deep discharge batteries that weighed less than several tons started to make the transition from "one-off prototypes" and "very expensive toys" to something that could be reliably mass produced.
Not quite; historically, the vehicles used by milkmen for daily residential milk deliveries, milk floats, generally moved from horse to electric power, since they generally only traveled a short distance (milk being milk), so range wasn't a serious concern, and as they usually operated on residential streets early in the morning noise was. Not the largest niche, but much bigger than "one-off prototypes" or "very expensive toys".
You're missing my point, which is that in many applications the kind of "performance" you're talking about simply isn't relevant because no one in their right mind would need a vehicle with great range or speed. Other factors, like noise, then become the "performance" factors of interest, and as a result you can have potentially quite extensive production and use of vehicles that fail on typical "performance" measures because those simply aren't relevant whereas other factors are. Another example in a totally different field would be how radiation-hardened computer hardware is often much worse in typical "performance" measures than standard commercial hardware for a variety of reasons; but in space applications or other fields where heavy radiation exposure is expected, the regular hardware would rapidly malfunction and so be useless.Right, but those floats used lead acid batteries that severely limited them in terms of both range and speed. Building an electric car or truck that can compete with gas-powered vehicles requires far more exotic and/or volatile battery compositions which is where the "one-off prototypes" and "very expensive toys" come in.
That's not the case, electric trucks remained competitive continuously with combustion engine trucks within their range- they were used for short routes and the combustion trucks were used for long routes, and the use of this system could have been extended right up to the present. It wouldn't be very common, as personal vehicles and long-distance trucks would have to be internal combustion, but it would work. Anything beyond that would require either lithium-ion batteries (1990) or overhead wires (1920's), making the 1920's the earliest time they could move into general use.Right. There was a brief period at the beginning when electric vehicles were competitive. It's possible to briefly extend that period - but only briefly, as lead-acid batteries simply can't compete with combustion engines.
As for more modern times, Li-ion batteries weren't even invented until 1980, and took some significant development to become safe.
Since Li is such an obvious choice (light weight, good electrochemical potential) that I assume others must have tried it earlier, and failed.
Right, but those floats used lead acid batteries that severely limited them in terms of both range and speed. Building an electric car or truck that can compete with gas-powered vehicles requires far more exotic and/or volatile battery compositions which is where the "one-off prototypes" and "very expensive toys" come in. Golf carts and similar light vehicles are one thing and have been around since the 30s. Battery-powered cars and trucks that can match the performance of their gas-powered counterparts are another thing entirely and have only become practical in the last few decades.
But this thread is about CARS. So local delivery trucks are irrelevant.That's not the case, electric trucks remained competitive continuously with combustion engine trucks within their ran
But this thread is about CARS. So local delivery trucks are irrelevant.
You're missing my point, which is that in many applications the kind of "performance" you're talking about simply isn't relevant because no one in their right mind would need a vehicle with great range or speed.
The main competition for a circa-1900 electric car isn't a hand-cranked diesel/petrol car, it's a horse and cart.
Right. There was a brief period at the beginning when electric vehicles were competitive. It's possible to briefly extend that period - but only briefly, as lead-acid batteries simply can't compete with combustion engines.
Perhaps early in the development of motorized vehicles a number of large cities--New York, Chicago, maybe others--pass ordnances restricting night-time noise levels, such that vehicles operating then effectively have to be electrically-powered to meet the noise requirements (in much the same vein that cities at the time would pass smoke and soot ordnances that had the functional effect of requiring electric locomotives).
I guess you didn't read my whole post, because I specifically said, "surely there would be intense pressure to repeal these laws..." and explicitly expected them to be a temporary sort of thing that might dominate in the 1900s or 1910s when motorization was controversial IOTL (there was much discussion of governors to restrict pedestrian deaths, although for various reasons this didn't actually happen) but would probably be mostly dead by the 1950s or 1960s. The thing is that a law restricting night-time noise levels doesn't inconvenience the average motorist much because, well, they're mostly not driving around at night, and it directly increases the quality of life of a great many people (i.e., anyone living in the city, who has less noise to deal with at night), so it's nothing like the laws you describe, which acted to prevent mostly theoretical harms and inconvenienced many motorists.And then those guys get voted out of office, and those restrictions get binned, just like the flag and signal rocket laws
are repealed, or just forgotten, like this
Those would be city laws.I guess you didn't read my whole post, because I specifically said, "surely there would be intense pressure to repeal these laws..." and explicitly expected them to be a temporary sort of thing that might dominate in the 1900s or 1910s when motorization was controversial IOTL (there was much discussion of governors to restrict pedestrian deaths, although for various reasons this didn't actually happen) but would probably be mostly dead by the 1950s or 1960s. The thing is that a law restricting night-time noise levels doesn't inconvenience the average motorist much because, well, they're mostly not driving around at night, and it directly increases the quality of life of a great many people (i.e., anyone living in the city, who has less noise to deal with at night), so it's nothing like the laws you describe, which acted to prevent mostly theoretical harms and inconvenienced many motorists.
Yes, and? Are these farmers in the habit of driving around Manhattan or Downtown Chicago in the middle of the night? If not, then this doesn't affect them at all, so I fail to see the relevance. I've been quite explicit all along that my proposal is not trying to wipe out gasoline vehicles altogether, merely to carve out a significant niche where electric vehicles could see commercial success: as night-time delivery vehicles in big cities. I don't think completely replacing gasoline vehicles with electric cars is practical, but seeing wider usage of electric vehicles most certainly is, and all--all--I've been trying to demonstrate with this proposal and my other posts is that you don't need lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles to see substantial usage before the present day (well...the comments on an autarkic country with limited oil reserves posited a situation where I could see gasoline vehicles getting wiped out, but that's a rather special situation). Not that legal ordnances could wipe out gasoline cars.Those would be city laws.
Thing was, since much of the population was rural, so were many of the auto sales. They wanted to replace the Horse and Buggy
This is from 1914
State: Cars Registered
New York 168,223
Illinois 131,140
California 123,504
Ohio 122,348
Pennsylvania 110,963
Iowa 106,087
Massachusetts 77,246
Michigan 76,014
Indiana 66,500
Wisconsin 53,160
Missouri 50,998
Since rural electrification won't be a thing for decades, electric cars leave the rural people out of luck, and even in 1914, New York had a lot of Farmers upstate, and Farmers in Downstate Illinois
Just saying it won't be even as large as Steam, given the lack of electrical hookups at this time.I've been quite explicit all along that my proposal is not trying to wipe out gasoline vehicles altogether, merely to carve out a significant niche where electric vehicles could see commercial success: