TEAR

Geopolitical consequences of building 1840-1860 of a TEAR ( Trans-Eurasian Railway ) instead of ( later IOTL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Siberian_Railway and earlier and weaker Russian Empire ( RuE ) RW projects - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Russia#Government_ownership )???

Participating countries: the ITTL earlier version of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_Three_Emperors - i.e. German Confederation + Austrian Empire + minor interested German states. The yet not conquered countries and territories in Central and East Asia would be made by positive and negative stimulae to take part and this will literally pave the way for RuE faster conquest.

Such TEAR would result in concentration of RuE colonization and settlement hundreds of miles south then IOTL leaving Siberia more or less empty...

RuE might be interested from military ( defensive ) considerations to be happy to keep the line off Moscow and St.Petersburg. ( The major political reasons why RuE delayed the introduction of RW mode of transport IOTL ).

Lets make this TEAR 2-lined and really gargantuan , similar to OTL 20th century Hitler's RW dreams : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitspurbahn - the Hamburg - Rostov section is geographically logical...

TEAR double-lined 3+m super-gauge track running for 11 000 km from Hamburg ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg ) to Port Arthur ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur,_China )

Some maps:

Europe 1840 AD - political

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TEAR - European section

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TEAR - full

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TEAR on global perspective

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Inspiration: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/a-railroad-rarety-train-arrives-five-days-early/
 
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The whole point of the TSR was that Russia wanted to more fully control and defend her far flung Siberian settlements. I just can't see why this would happen, or how the organisation would be accomplished.
 
The whole point of the TSR was that Russia wanted to more fully control and defend her far flung Siberian settlements. I just can't see why this would happen, or how the organisation would be accomplished.

falo.jpg


The far flung Siberian settlements could be easily connected with "rib" links out of the TEAR backbone - where necessary ( because the "necklase" of the Siberian settlements themselves' initial purpose was not so much to exploit local resources - but to provide "stepping stones" from the capital to the Pacific.)

ALSO, TEAR serves better the RuE interests to go "little bit" south under very "innocent" reasons. The Chinese imperial consent could be comparativelly easily achieved ... Thus Siberia and Manchuria will be safely fenced north of the Big RW land-bridge. Such connection would be extremelly profitable for both RuE and German Confederation, while TSR was only serving local infra-RuE traffic most of the time, with huge dips in usage, and lots of problems.

BUT, lets hear more opinions, pls.
 
It seems to me that constructing such a project as early as 1840s to 1860s isn't very plausible in Russia. By the end of the 1860s in OTL had just 1,616km of railroad in the country. To build even from Warsaw to Astrakhan is 2,429km which is doable but would require a POD even earlier where Russia industrializes much ealier. Yet from the Russian perspective this project isn't connecting the major population centers of Russia.

One aspect that would be quite interesting is that this project would predate the elimination of Serfdom in 1860, so unlike otl where railroads took off when slavery was abolished this mega project would be build on the backs of the Serfs.
 
Tobit,

Pan-german capitals and technology PLUS Russian serf workers.

Avoiding ( for a while ) Moscow and core of Russia and the capital St.Petersburg is considered as a safety measure vs. easier invasion by the yet conservative Russians.
 
Tobit,

Pan-german capitals and technology PLUS Russian serf workers.

Avoiding ( for a while ) Moscow and core of Russia and the capital St.Petersburg is considered as a safety measure vs. easier invasion by the yet conservative Russians.

Prussia had just achieved 5,762km of track mainly through private investment. These were urban to urban railroads concerned with local development. Austria was busy trying to build up their railways from Vienna to Bratislava and then to Galicia. Private industry played a role there as well. Again I think Austria and Prussia were still developing their own countries before they could go on a huge investment in a connection to Ukraine and beyond.

Moscow to St. Petersburg was important because it was built with investment from men like Count Bobrinsky and the Merchant interests of Moscow saw it as necessary to develop the country. Tsar Nicholas I and his advisors in the end ignored the crazily conservative nobility.

Maybe if Pugachev's Rebellion never occurs; then Catherine the Great ends Serfdom and creates a National education system like she wanted.
 
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ALSO, TEAR serves better the RuE interests to go "little bit" south under very "innocent" reasons. The Chinese imperial consent could be comparativelly easily achieved ... Thus Siberia and Manchuria will be safely fenced north of the Big RW land-bridge. Such connection would be extremelly profitable for both RuE and German Confederation, while TSR was only serving local infra-RuE traffic most of the time, with huge dips in usage, and lots of problems.

BUT, lets hear more opinions, pls.

I'm sorry, but it really doesn't. It's so far into Chinese territory that it effectively becomes 'a Russian project in China'. You can get a Russian zone of influence in these areas, but you're also probably being really provocative towards the UK in an era which would see the Crimean War only a few years later.

Plus, this still really only benefits the Russians. It goes from Russian territory to a Russian naval base, with a brief spur at the beginning.
 
I'm sorry, but it really doesn't. It's so far into Chinese territory that it effectively becomes 'a Russian project in China'. You can get a Russian zone of influence in these areas, but you're also probably being really provocative towards the UK in an era which would see the Crimean War only a few years later.

Plus, this still really only benefits the Russians. It goes from Russian territory to a Russian naval base, with a brief spur at the beginning.

Port Arthur didn't exist until 1897. So if this is completed by 1860 its terminus will be a fishing village as of yet undeveloped.
 
Alex Richards,

I'm sorry, but it really doesn't. It's so far into Chinese territory that it effectively becomes 'a Russian project in China'.

It runs through ONLY Uyguristan ( East Turkestan ), Inner Mongolia and Manchuria, but NOT through China proper ( the 18 provinces ). These territories could be easily knocked out of Chinese control being very rarely populated with non-Han people, ESPECIALLY given a land transport RW bridge to project military power, too.

Plus, this still really only benefits the Russians. It goes from Russian territory to a Russian naval base, with a brief spur at the beginning.

Such backbone will literally BOOM the German confederation countries in terms of economy. The vast resources of foods and minerals along and aside the TEAR + the massive markets south of the East end of it... Russia will profit a lot too, sucking in the technological and industrial diffusion. The millions of post-OTL-1848 Germans who have gone to USA, ITTL could settle along the line, even without changing the expanded Russia demography too much, except of diluting the local Altaic populations.

The "brief spur" is THE OTL industrial powerhouse of Europe 1870s-present.

Such joint project between the German Confederacy and the Russian Empire would butterfly lots of problems for both of them. It will push them into the spiral of further and further unification. The model for Union between GC and RuE could be used for further integration of continental Europe.
 
Alex Richards,



It runs through ONLY Uyguristan ( East Turkestan ), Inner Mongolia and Manchuria, but NOT through China proper ( the 18 provinces ). These territories could be easily knocked out of Chinese control being very rarely populated with non-Han people, ESPECIALLY given a land transport RW bridge to project military power, too.



Such backbone will literally BOOM the German confederation countries in terms of economy. The vast resources of foods and minerals along and aside the TEAR + the massive markets south of the East end of it... Russia will profit a lot too, sucking in the technological and industrial diffusion. The millions of post-OTL-1848 Germans who have gone to USA, ITTL could settle along the line, even without changing the expanded Russia demography too much, except of diluting the local Altaic populations.

The "brief spur" is THE OTL industrial powerhouse of Europe 1870s-present.

Such joint project between the German Confederacy and the Russian Empire would butterfly lots of problems for both of them. It will push them into the spiral of further and further unification. The model for Union between GC and RuE could be used for further integration of continental Europe.

I just don't see it happening. We've now established that Port Arthur doesn't even exist yet. Why are the Russians even deciding this? How does it benefit Russia to put it through territory they don't control yet? Manchuria and Xinjiang only began to become a subject of Russian influence after they had conquered the central Asian states and gained full control over Siberia, this just doesn't do that. And you're severely underestimating the population of these areas and how much it would take to flood it with Russian settlers. And you're getting the cause and effect mixed up. For Russia to get enough troops into the area to take control virtually requires the railroad (or the TSR), but for the railroad to be built they need to first take control of the territories. China may not be strong, but you've got the Russian attempting to take control of territory literally right outside Beijing. That's not going to be given up easily.

And Russia doesn't want the millions of Germans who went to the US because Russia wants to secure this area with Russians, not a gaggle of religious and ethnic minorities, many of who emigrated to America precisely because it was more liberal and open than conservative Germany, and certainly than reactionary Russia.

Not to mention half your language of 'European unionism' and 'international integrationism' is basically completely alien to the mindsets of the European leaders at the time.
 
i can only imagine this TEAR being done after and in addition to the Trans-Siberian, not as a replacement for it. Perhaps in a world where the Kaiser renewed the Reinsurance Treaty in 1890 and German financiers saw the benefit of a railroad originating from Hamburg going deep into Russia and China as a way to grow German economic interests.
 
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