Tartessos not Rome.
- Thread starter Othniel
- Start date
The fact that Carthage controls the area after the kings are done makes me think that there was a war with them around that time. Just a suspscion. So in the year 555 BC there will be a war with Carthage. Carthage wanting Tartessos's trade routes. The result is Tartessos expanding into northwestren Afirca.
Meanwhile in Southren Italy the Sannites and Lucani do not split up to become these sperate tribes. Istead they remain as the Osci and come to dominate the southren half of the penisula, also coming into conflict with Carthage during the 5th Century BC. Wars over Sicily they are used as Mercenaries, and later Suracuse come under their full protection. In the second Sicilian conflict they gain control over Carthage's main territory, while Tartessos ceizes the rest of North Africa.
I should probably also add Thrace and Dacia onto this map. Along with the tribe layout of the Russian plains.
Asia Minor will probably turn out to be a rebellious area that Mede in no way can hold, maybe strongly holding onto an idea of restoring the fallen Babylonia Empire. Whilest the Helispontic League will basicly be the reigon taken over by Babylon, thus persuading the the Greeks into less than favorable peace terms.
Meanwhile in Southren Italy the Sannites and Lucani do not split up to become these sperate tribes. Istead they remain as the Osci and come to dominate the southren half of the penisula, also coming into conflict with Carthage during the 5th Century BC. Wars over Sicily they are used as Mercenaries, and later Suracuse come under their full protection. In the second Sicilian conflict they gain control over Carthage's main territory, while Tartessos ceizes the rest of North Africa.
I should probably also add Thrace and Dacia onto this map. Along with the tribe layout of the Russian plains.
Asia Minor will probably turn out to be a rebellious area that Mede in no way can hold, maybe strongly holding onto an idea of restoring the fallen Babylonia Empire. Whilest the Helispontic League will basicly be the reigon taken over by Babylon, thus persuading the the Greeks into less than favorable peace terms.
Now how would Tartessos spread throughout westren Africa? More trade routes establized throughout that first cape? Also I'm thinking a more imperilistic Egypt may be amuzing, colonies in Westren and Southren Arabia. An Egyptian or Ethiopian Madgascar, a Tartessosan Savanna, a Celtic Greenland,...what do you guys think would be best to cause a spreading of the Great Sea cultures through colonization?
The Osci should also spread into upper Dalamtia. I should probably do a map for every fifty years in coraspondance with a comprehensive timeline.
BTW does anyone have a website that shows the postion of Native American Tribes for the new world? I'd like a first milliea guess of where they are....
The Osci should also spread into upper Dalamtia. I should probably do a map for every fifty years in coraspondance with a comprehensive timeline.
BTW does anyone have a website that shows the postion of Native American Tribes for the new world? I'd like a first milliea guess of where they are....
920 BC Tartessos founded.
830 BC Tartessos establishes trade routes with Tribes in Britain, Ireland, northern and western France.
830-721 BC Tartessos grows to include the Baetican Area.
814 BC Carthage founded.
814 –688 BC Carthage’s protects Phoenician (Tyre’s) trading interests in the western Mediterranean, Northern and Western Africa (as far south as Sierra Leon is in the OTL).
688 BC Carthage seizes the Tyre’s colonies in Northwestern Africa.
643- 625 BC The First Carthage-Tartessos War. The Tartessans win and
take the Carthagain colonies along Africa’s Westren Coast and the area surronding the Straits of Gibratar.
612 BC Nineveh sacked by Medes and Chaldaeans
600 BC Greeks found Massilia (Marseilles).
605-551 BC Nebuchadrazzer II rules Babylonia conquering Greek colonies in Asia Minor and captures Macedonia. Forces Greece to sue for peace
560 BC Minoan is conquered by Crete.
558-540 BC Tartessos grow to control the Iberia Peninsula south of the Duero and Ebro Rivers, except for the Greek Colonies on the west coast.
556 BC Oscan tribes stay unified.
552 BC Peloponnese is conquered by Crete.
549 BC Medes assimilate the Persians. (Madai and Parsua)
542 BC Tartessos takes Sardina under its command.
539 BC Babylon sacked by the Medes. Astyagus II becomes king.
520 BC Coastal Celtic tribes in southwestern France ask to be part of the Tartessan Hierarchy.
512 BC The Lugdunsians join Tartessos.
503-478 BC Southern Ireland invaded Conquering Meath, Leinster, and Munster. The Rivers Shannon and Boyne are the northern boundaries.
500 BC Southern Illyra allies with Osci. The Adriatic Alliance is berthed.
479-468 BC Britain invaded by Tartessos. They capture and hold as far north as Eboracum (York).
480 BC First Sicilian War. Carthage comes into conflict with Greece and the Tyrant of Syracuse. The Tyrant joins the Adriantic Alliance. Only the southeast corner is lost to Carthage.
440 BC Celts sack Marssilia. Tartessos helps in exchange for troops to take Greece’s western Iberian Colonies.
436 BC Celts subjutate Corisca.
424 BC Uprisings in Asia Minor, Canaan and Egypt against the Medes successful. Lebanon, Aramea, and Caria reestablished. Egypt is independent.
414-399 BC Eturia manages to hold off the Celts, while conquering Dalmatia
412 BC The Median conquered Greek colonies in Asia Minor form the Hellispontic League under Ephesus and Miletos. Macedonia joins the Delian League.
414-406 BC Beligica and the Flatlands captured by Tartessos.
410 BC Second Sicilian War. Carthage attempts to unify Sicily under themselves. The Adriantic Allience attacks Carthage and takes their possestions in Tunsia. Carthage are now subservant to the Alliance.
This leads up to the map posted. The tribes that allied themselves with Tartessos are in the darker green, while the unaligned tribes are in the aquamarine area. Any help is welecome. Critics, questions, flying monkeys
...forget that....no MONKIES AT ALL....Flying or otherwise....*shivers at the thought*
830 BC Tartessos establishes trade routes with Tribes in Britain, Ireland, northern and western France.
830-721 BC Tartessos grows to include the Baetican Area.
814 BC Carthage founded.
814 –688 BC Carthage’s protects Phoenician (Tyre’s) trading interests in the western Mediterranean, Northern and Western Africa (as far south as Sierra Leon is in the OTL).
688 BC Carthage seizes the Tyre’s colonies in Northwestern Africa.
643- 625 BC The First Carthage-Tartessos War. The Tartessans win and
take the Carthagain colonies along Africa’s Westren Coast and the area surronding the Straits of Gibratar.
612 BC Nineveh sacked by Medes and Chaldaeans
600 BC Greeks found Massilia (Marseilles).
605-551 BC Nebuchadrazzer II rules Babylonia conquering Greek colonies in Asia Minor and captures Macedonia. Forces Greece to sue for peace
560 BC Minoan is conquered by Crete.
558-540 BC Tartessos grow to control the Iberia Peninsula south of the Duero and Ebro Rivers, except for the Greek Colonies on the west coast.
556 BC Oscan tribes stay unified.
552 BC Peloponnese is conquered by Crete.
549 BC Medes assimilate the Persians. (Madai and Parsua)
542 BC Tartessos takes Sardina under its command.
539 BC Babylon sacked by the Medes. Astyagus II becomes king.
520 BC Coastal Celtic tribes in southwestern France ask to be part of the Tartessan Hierarchy.
512 BC The Lugdunsians join Tartessos.
503-478 BC Southern Ireland invaded Conquering Meath, Leinster, and Munster. The Rivers Shannon and Boyne are the northern boundaries.
500 BC Southern Illyra allies with Osci. The Adriatic Alliance is berthed.
479-468 BC Britain invaded by Tartessos. They capture and hold as far north as Eboracum (York).
480 BC First Sicilian War. Carthage comes into conflict with Greece and the Tyrant of Syracuse. The Tyrant joins the Adriantic Alliance. Only the southeast corner is lost to Carthage.
440 BC Celts sack Marssilia. Tartessos helps in exchange for troops to take Greece’s western Iberian Colonies.
436 BC Celts subjutate Corisca.
424 BC Uprisings in Asia Minor, Canaan and Egypt against the Medes successful. Lebanon, Aramea, and Caria reestablished. Egypt is independent.
414-399 BC Eturia manages to hold off the Celts, while conquering Dalmatia
412 BC The Median conquered Greek colonies in Asia Minor form the Hellispontic League under Ephesus and Miletos. Macedonia joins the Delian League.
414-406 BC Beligica and the Flatlands captured by Tartessos.
410 BC Second Sicilian War. Carthage attempts to unify Sicily under themselves. The Adriantic Allience attacks Carthage and takes their possestions in Tunsia. Carthage are now subservant to the Alliance.
This leads up to the map posted. The tribes that allied themselves with Tartessos are in the darker green, while the unaligned tribes are in the aquamarine area. Any help is welecome. Critics, questions, flying monkeys
...forget that....no MONKIES AT ALL....Flying or otherwise....*shivers at the thought*
Intersting Tl you have here Othniel...I have few questions.
1. What type of social structue do they Taresstesian Kingdom have? Do taking over the Greek and Punic Coloines and the migrations of The northern Celts.
2. Do the Latin Kings(1183-716 BCE, Still dominate Italy from Lavitum? It would be interesting to see an united Estrucans and Romans under them.
3. Who is rulling over Palestine?
4. What do you mean by Minoans in Crete? They were wiped off the map by 400 BCE
1. What type of social structue do they Taresstesian Kingdom have? Do taking over the Greek and Punic Coloines and the migrations of The northern Celts.
2. Do the Latin Kings(1183-716 BCE, Still dominate Italy from Lavitum? It would be interesting to see an united Estrucans and Romans under them.
3. Who is rulling over Palestine?
4. What do you mean by Minoans in Crete? They were wiped off the map by 400 BCE
Sorry, by Minioan I mean Cyprus....I always get those islands mixed up. Two, the Latins are under the Etruscans. There was no revolt in Rome, there will be no great Roman Empire...or Republic. Those in Palstine....well right now I'm not sure whom it will be....Ammon, Tyre, ...not Edom...Midian...
Babylonia throughly messed things up...dispersing and scattering people throughout the area. Syria is in the least able postion to take back their land, being most scattered. The anwser is a well armed union of fighting, rebelling nations keeping themselves against the Median threat, backed by Egypt, the Kingdom of Crete, The Delian League, The Helispontic League and Caria. I'm calling it Aramea.
Map by Color
Peach is Tartessos.
Tartessos was a liberial culture with trading ties along the Westren coast of Europe and up into Britian. Their trading ties (in the alternate timeline) allow them an opening into Celtic society, and their ideals seem to attract many into this trade based empire. It is not totally unreasonable to believe that as this culture continues to exsist that those along their trade routes ask for some protection and continued econmic prosperity by having a more permanate relationship (i.e. join the Tartessos Empire)
Forest Green is now a loose federation of Celtic tribes that began to embed themselves under the indirect protection of the Tartessos. This settlement is more like a Southren Gaul.
The Pinkleweary blue is Eturia, the Etruscans in control of northren Italy. They are attempting to grow. More importantly the Latins have started disappearing as a people as they are married into the Etruscan ranks.(Need more information on how they would keep revolts from happening in the reigoin, thank you.)
South of that, the white countries, is the Osci (Sannites and Lucani) dominated Adriatic Allience.
Purple is the Delian Allience, dominated by Athens.
The Olive color is the Helisponitic League.
Bright Red is the Kingdom of Crete.
The pale yellow is Caria.
Sense Syria got majorly hammered in this Timeline the Lebanoness take control of their territory quite easily. It is pale Orange.
Teal is the unorganized tribes of the British Isles!
The pink is Germanic Nordica. Sense this was about where they where at the time I gave them a seris of good reasons to stay in the area (higher crop yeild, a poplulation boom of deer and other game in the area, and a more mild winters.)
Grey is the reigon Greeks call 'Barbaric Wastelands'.
Maroon is Egypt,
And the pinkish area where Persia is, well I'm still saying the Medes have dominance.
The aquamairne is the Celtic Confederacy.
The navy is Aramea, since the Phillistines are broken, the Phoenicians scattered, the Jews are all over Mede, Edom slain, and Moab is firmly under grips. (If anyone has a better nation to fill Canaan, tell me please!)
As for the culture of Tartessos I plan on illstrating parts of the goverment through some stories. They have a king...and a more elevated merchant class than most. I'm also working on some details...Do you know the migration paths of the groups of east of the Germanic Tribes?
Babylonia throughly messed things up...dispersing and scattering people throughout the area. Syria is in the least able postion to take back their land, being most scattered. The anwser is a well armed union of fighting, rebelling nations keeping themselves against the Median threat, backed by Egypt, the Kingdom of Crete, The Delian League, The Helispontic League and Caria. I'm calling it Aramea.
Map by Color
Peach is Tartessos.
Tartessos was a liberial culture with trading ties along the Westren coast of Europe and up into Britian. Their trading ties (in the alternate timeline) allow them an opening into Celtic society, and their ideals seem to attract many into this trade based empire. It is not totally unreasonable to believe that as this culture continues to exsist that those along their trade routes ask for some protection and continued econmic prosperity by having a more permanate relationship (i.e. join the Tartessos Empire)
Forest Green is now a loose federation of Celtic tribes that began to embed themselves under the indirect protection of the Tartessos. This settlement is more like a Southren Gaul.
The Pinkleweary blue is Eturia, the Etruscans in control of northren Italy. They are attempting to grow. More importantly the Latins have started disappearing as a people as they are married into the Etruscan ranks.(Need more information on how they would keep revolts from happening in the reigoin, thank you.)
South of that, the white countries, is the Osci (Sannites and Lucani) dominated Adriatic Allience.
Purple is the Delian Allience, dominated by Athens.
The Olive color is the Helisponitic League.
Bright Red is the Kingdom of Crete.
The pale yellow is Caria.
Sense Syria got majorly hammered in this Timeline the Lebanoness take control of their territory quite easily. It is pale Orange.
Teal is the unorganized tribes of the British Isles!
The pink is Germanic Nordica. Sense this was about where they where at the time I gave them a seris of good reasons to stay in the area (higher crop yeild, a poplulation boom of deer and other game in the area, and a more mild winters.)
Grey is the reigon Greeks call 'Barbaric Wastelands'.
Maroon is Egypt,
And the pinkish area where Persia is, well I'm still saying the Medes have dominance.
The aquamairne is the Celtic Confederacy.
The navy is Aramea, since the Phillistines are broken, the Phoenicians scattered, the Jews are all over Mede, Edom slain, and Moab is firmly under grips. (If anyone has a better nation to fill Canaan, tell me please!)
As for the culture of Tartessos I plan on illstrating parts of the goverment through some stories. They have a king...and a more elevated merchant class than most. I'm also working on some details...Do you know the migration paths of the groups of east of the Germanic Tribes?
In OTL, the Jews were allowed back into Judea after the fall of Babylon to (IIRC) Persia, and before that were concentrated around Babylon itself. I don't know too much about the Medes, would they do the same in this TL? If so, we may end up with a Jewish state in Caanan. If not, the most likely place for a Jewish country (Obviously once Mede starts declining) is around Babylon... (The bible mentions Babylon becoming "Another Judea", IIRC)
50 years from the map: 350 BC
Ok, Caria can't mantain independace for long as the Median armies invade from the East, so they join the Helspontic Leaugue.
Also there is an earlier circumnavigation of Britian (OTL, The greeks did this in 310 from the city of Marseiles.) The Tartessosians also discover Norway and Iceland.
The Kingdom of Crete sends soldiers to Lebbanon to Help against the spread of the Medes. Lebbannon's north has already been compromised along with the Aramea in the south.
Meanwhile Dacia, and Thrace has lost land in the East to the Sythan threat. The Celts are being pushed closer together by the Germanic tribes, whom already have been split in two. (Poland and Finland)
Eturia captured what would be named Lake Constantine. Subjugating the minor babaric territory to their will.
Migration to Southren Gaul and Tartessos is happening by the Celtic tribe in Westren Europe.
Tartessos's Monoarchy is giving way to Plutocracy. Talk of a council of Goveners is frequent.
The Kingdom of Crete manages to create a small area of colonies in Africa, the Delian Leauge is divided at what to do.
Ok, Caria can't mantain independace for long as the Median armies invade from the East, so they join the Helspontic Leaugue.
Also there is an earlier circumnavigation of Britian (OTL, The greeks did this in 310 from the city of Marseiles.) The Tartessosians also discover Norway and Iceland.
The Kingdom of Crete sends soldiers to Lebbanon to Help against the spread of the Medes. Lebbannon's north has already been compromised along with the Aramea in the south.
Meanwhile Dacia, and Thrace has lost land in the East to the Sythan threat. The Celts are being pushed closer together by the Germanic tribes, whom already have been split in two. (Poland and Finland)
Eturia captured what would be named Lake Constantine. Subjugating the minor babaric territory to their will.
Migration to Southren Gaul and Tartessos is happening by the Celtic tribe in Westren Europe.
Tartessos's Monoarchy is giving way to Plutocracy. Talk of a council of Goveners is frequent.
The Kingdom of Crete manages to create a small area of colonies in Africa, the Delian Leauge is divided at what to do.
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The Germanic Tribes may split while a majority of the Celts get absorbed into Tartessos's Plutocracy. I'm also thinking about a small colony in Iceland and the discovery of Greenland.Small colonies along the Norweigin Coasts...When would the Germanic tribes most likely move North? Should Poland be heavily settled as some continue to move West. What is the next major river east of the Rhine?
A merchant heavy society, attractingHistorico said:
That's why its Eturia. I just haven't written much on them for lack of ideas on how to put it.Historico said:
I'm not quite sure but I'm calling it Aramea. See I have a bunch of displaced tribes and peoples of conquered lands...So any suggestions on whom the Babylonians or Medes would put there to unfamiallarise them with the land?Historico said:
I ment Cyprus when I said Miniona...whoops. But I have a Kingdom centered in Crete...Over all that can be changed...it is a reigon open to...editing.Historico said:
398 BC Dacia and Thrace are attacked by Sythians.
396 BC Mede attacks Caria.
392 BC Caria joins the Helispontic League in response to the attacks.
391 BC The Carian-Median War is over, Mede gaining territory Westward.
372 BC Tartessosian Explorers circumnavigate the British Islands. Also they discover Norway and Iceland.
364 BC The Burgundians and Vandals Germanic tribes migrate to the north. whilest the other tribes migrate west.
361-312 BC Mass migration of Celts
358 BC Eturia attacks the Celts in the East, taking a large freshwater lake.
356-349 BC Medes attack Lebbanon and Aramea, capturing a large portion of both.
351 BC The Kingdom of Crete builds a minor group of colonies in Afirica. The Delian League decides to wait for the Cretian to start hostilities.
346 BC Tartessos conquers all of Ireland except Ulster.
326 BC Eturia's boundary is north as the Danube River is Establised.
396 BC Mede attacks Caria.
392 BC Caria joins the Helispontic League in response to the attacks.
391 BC The Carian-Median War is over, Mede gaining territory Westward.
372 BC Tartessosian Explorers circumnavigate the British Islands. Also they discover Norway and Iceland.
364 BC The Burgundians and Vandals Germanic tribes migrate to the north. whilest the other tribes migrate west.
361-312 BC Mass migration of Celts
358 BC Eturia attacks the Celts in the East, taking a large freshwater lake.
356-349 BC Medes attack Lebbanon and Aramea, capturing a large portion of both.
351 BC The Kingdom of Crete builds a minor group of colonies in Afirica. The Delian League decides to wait for the Cretian to start hostilities.
346 BC Tartessos conquers all of Ireland except Ulster.
326 BC Eturia's boundary is north as the Danube River is Establised.
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Othniel, you don’t happen to have a version of that map with modern OTL boarders, would you?(I’ve been using it for different things, but it can be kind of hard to figure out where every thing should be with out modern boarders, especially for things closer to modern day 
.)
.)Heres one I got from Wikipekia:
And here's a website for geography: http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/reference_maps/pdf/physical_world.pdf
And here's a website for geography: http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/reference_maps/pdf/physical_world.pdf