"Tantalus in Tartarus" - A Blog by a Southern Republican

I also noticed that OTL Zimbabwe is a functional, prosperous state. What happened TTL to make Zimbabwe a non-batshit crazy place?
 
I also noticed that OTL Zimbabwe is a functional, prosperous state. What happened TTL to make Zimbabwe a non-batshit crazy place?
I will explain it, because I doubt that it'll come-up as a major part in the timeline's 'main storyline' (though I'll have to break it up into two parts - the tale of how Zimbabwe got to where it is today is honestly a massive story in-and-of-itself).

ZIMBABWE-RHODESIA (PART 1)

When Godfrey Huggins stepped down as Prime Minister in 1954 after his attempts to form a federation with Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland fell-through, he was replaced by Garfield Todd. Now, Todd himself was personally disliked by a lot of individuals in parliament - both those in his United Party as well as the Liberals in opposition - largely due to his pro-reform stance that favoured integration of black community into the society of the minority-whites. Happening concurrent to Todd's early attempts at reform was the post-WW2 wave of immigration which South Africa was experiencing at the time; many of those new immigrants (particularly those of poor British backgrounds) began also moving into the neighbouring Rhodesia after Todd pushed-through a significant reform which lowered the cost of immigration and raised the number of individuals which may enter in a given year. This of course came with a number of issues, particularly the fact that Rhodesia at the time had a fairly-high income qualification for elections which precluded many poorer-individuals from voting, this 'income-bar' now affecting some of the more destitute whites which came over the course of the 1950's and 1960's.

Now, Todd considered that he could kill two birds with one stone regarding the issue of both blacks and poor whites not having the right to vote; Todd's initial attempts to lower the income qualifications in the late-1950's receiving massive push-back from the white community (even those of poor backgrounds) due to the fact that it would put tens-of-thousands of Native Africans onto the voter rolls - this event almost resulting in his defeat at the 1961 elections. Not dejected by his close-victory in the election (and the close leadership election which followed shortly thereafter), Todd began to take inspiration for his reform efforts from what was occurring in South Africa; that being the policy of the New Vision under South African PM, De Villiers Graaf.

Now Graaf never initially intended for his New Vision policy to be as far-reaching as it ultimately became; in the beginning, New Vision simply meant the integration of Whites and Coloureds into one community in South Africa, with Blacks and Indians being granted some rights as part of an overall 'racial confederation'. However, the content of his initial New Vision speech (which later gave the policy a name) included elements such as expanded suffrage, the growth of the welfare state, as well as unification with Rhodesia and Botswana; this galvanising the urban black community to begin a movement for full suffrage for all citizens of the Union. This began the New Vision era of South African history; a period which stretched from around 1959 to 1974 - the policy of the United Party-government of the time shifting radically back-and-forth between 'separation' and 'integration' as blacks (who were becoming more-and-more integrated within the South African economy) began demanding for the break-down of 'racial qualifications' throughout South Africa.

Amidst this uproar in South Africa was Rhodesia, Garfield Todd, and the birth of a similar 'Native Rights' movement in the country (which promised the same peaceful protest as their neighbours to the south). At the time, Todd was smart enough to recognise that whites in Rhodesia would never accept full voting rights for native peoples, so Todd worked around this by promoting what he called the 'national community' (a term inspired by more liberal elements in the New Vision movement). By radically increasing black access to education, higher-paying work, and recognition of their place in the country, Todd believed he could 'influence' the country towards integration without overtly 'pushing the issue'. Of course, there were some areas where integration had to be pushed; in 1963, despite massive resistance from conservatives throughout the country, Todd oversaw the passage of a new constitution which created a 'three-tier' system of voting rolls; the 'A' roll was the traditional voting roll from the 1923 constitution (though with a lower property and income qualification), the 'B' roll was reserved for Africans (though with an additional income qualification which many couldn't afford), and a 'C' roll in which only Indians could vote. The 'A' roll was reserved 40 seats, the 'B' roll 5 (though it could be increased to 10 depending on the number of people enrolled), and the 'C' roll was reserved 2.

By allowing at-least minimal African representation in parliament, as well as increase the living standards of black throughout Rhodesia, Todd believed it would be possible to pass universal suffrage by 1972 whilst maintaining the 'British characteristics' of the country. Opposition to his early-1960's reforms was harsh, though Todd once-again survived an election in 1965, though he would be forced to enter into a coalition with a Labour Party which only tepidly supported his policies. Though he was forced to cut-down on the speed of reforms after 1965, Todd nevertheless continued to support educational and economic integration of Native Africans into his 'national community', the United Party's growth amongst the newly enfranchised 'B' roll voters doing much to starve-off the drop in support it experienced amongst the white community.

Towards the end of the 1960's, independence of many colonial states was becoming an issue throughout Europe; in Rhodesia, the crux of the problems related to independence fell solely around the issue of suffrage. Leaders of the Native Rights movement (which would coalesce around Joshua Nkomo and Abel Muzorewa by the late-1960's) believed that independence before majority-rule in the country would result in a 'perpetual white minority government' which would have the legitimacy of any regular state; as a result, they delivered a petition (in conjunction with those in the New Vision civil rights movement) to London in hopes of pressuring the Conservative government under Richard Butler to consider forcing the issue. Butler - who believed in accelerating decolonisation after Kenya's independence in 1966 - wished to keep the existing Todd Government in place in hopes that universal suffrage would come 'in the near future'; the Native Rights petition shifting the attitude of his administration to one of lukewarm support for the 'idea of immediate suffrage'. This, of course, led to outrage when Butler began suggesting full voting rights for black Rhodesians in 1967, with many members of the colonial Labour, Liberal, and even United Parties pushing to immediate and unilateral independence, even though the white population in 1967 is estimated at being only 10% to 12% of the total population. As a result of the growing domestic pressure, Todd began discussions with his British and South African counterparts to determine a future course of action.

The Johannesburg Conference in late-1967 set out such a course for the immediate future. Recognising the inevitability that was majority rule, Garfield Todd, Richard Butler, and De Villiers Graaf, after much bickering diplomacy, issued a joint-statement which supported 'majority rule in Rhodesia within 10 years' (something which damaged Todd's formerly-good relations with Abel Murzorewa who was concerned about the 'sell-out' of the black community); the conference going further in allowing for referendums in both Rhodesia and Botswana which would provide the option of 'independence', or 'unification with South Africa' - though only on the condition that the Rhodesian and Botswana legislatures support the motion. After much uproar from the white community and parliamentarians over the issue of the 'ten-year promise', the Rhodesian House of Assembly narrowly voted to support a referendum for September 30, 1968; the moderate, reformist, and native members in the legislature being key in the 27-to-22 vote.

The referendum itself was hard-fought and distinctly polarising, largely out of the United Party's decision to have the qualifications for voting in the referendum be the same as those of a general elections; this leaving Rhodesia's future largely in the hands of its white minority, some of whom began immigrating in the face of unification with 'liberal South Africa', or independence 'under the black majority'. A vast majority of whites stayed however, some believing that independence might provide an opportunity to 'starve off' majority rule (perhaps indefinitely), with many others growing to at least sympathise with the 'ideals' of the Native Rights movement; and with that in mind, Rhodesian voters went to the polls in the September of 1968 and, in a manner similar to Botswana, voted overwhelmingly for independence over unification with South Africa; 72.6% to 27.4%.

Despite the fact that many voters selected independence for a variety of reasons outside of 'majority rule', the Rhodesian Prime Minister nevertheless viewed the overwhelming victory as a mandate to carry out his policy of 'native integration' in the process of building the 'national community'; though with many members of the Native Rights movement growing impatient at the lack of major reform, and with several members of parliament and a large portion of the white settlers opposing even the concept of universal suffrage, Rhodesia was in for a rocky first decade after it achieved full independence on February 28, 1969.
 
Last edited:
What's going on in the northeast of Turkey?
It's the remnants of the 'Nationalist Army' that fought against the United States and the Turkish government during (surprise surprise) the Turkish War. Though I'll expand more on it in a later update, it has since the de jure end of the conflict become essentially a minor hodgepodge of Pan-Turkish, Islamist, and extreme-Nationalist forces carrying-out an unpopular insurgency against what they describe as the "sell-out government" in Ankara.
 
I must say, I'm loving this TL. The world you've built is a very interesting place. I would most certainly like to know a little more about India here, as it appears to have gone through quite a few changes from OTL.
 
It's the remnants of the 'Nationalist Army' that fought against the United States and the Turkish government during (surprise surprise) the Turkish War. Though I'll expand more on it in a later update, it has since the de jure end of the conflict become essentially a minor hodgepodge of Pan-Turkish, Islamist, and extreme-Nationalist forces carrying-out an unpopular insurgency against what they describe as the "sell-out government" in Ankara.

I really like the idea, but the northeast of Turkey really isn't Islamist. It was really left wing back in the day and still is quite leftwing. I would give them more land on the western border of Kurdistan and less on the northern.

And i really love the timeline. I was actually planning a Byrnes timeline myself, but i never have the inspiration to put my words on paper or my fingers on the keyboard.
 
I really like the idea, but the northeast of Turkey really isn't Islamist. It was really left wing back in the day and still is quite leftwing. I would give them more land on the western border of Kurdistan and less on the northern.

And i really love the timeline. I was actually planning a Byrnes timeline myself, but i never have the inspiration to put my words on paper or my fingers on the keyboard.

That could just be the area that that group controls still. It doesn't have to be where it was born.
 
Chinese culture ITTL (especially without the mass cultural destruction that it experienced after the rise of the Communists) is fairly massive and influential across the entire world, though particularly in East Asian countries. Very much in the same way American culture (television, film, music, literature, etc.) is easily the most dominant force in the West, Chinese culture is quite a hegemonic force in the East. In countries like Vietnam, Korea, and Japan, people flock to read the newest books coming out of China, or watch the next big Shanghai blockbuster; this being bolstered by the sheer-amount of art and media which comes out of the RoC (particularly action, romance, and history films). Even going into Central Asia, East Africa, and some areas of the Middle East, Chinese- and East Asian-derived cultural products tend to be more available than those coming out of the United States.

Oh, indeed. Look at the immense impact of Chinese-origin media on OTL. And then note that until fairly recently, it was all out of Hong Kong and Taiwan. The sheer mass of China, returned to functionality, exercises a gravitational force on the world's culture. And I think you underestimate the portability of cultural products. For instance, Latin American telenovelas are big in Africa and eastern Europe. And see below about Korean culture nowadays. Chollywood would be huge.

One thing that will happen soon OTL, and probably happened a while ago ITTL, is the rise of Chinese brands. Not just low-end appliances and electronics, but high-status luxury goods and respected industrial products. Think of how many Italian, French, German, and British brands are world famous. America has a lot too, though from my point of view I can't really judge how widely they are known elsewhere. ITTL China would have a lot.

Here's something else in that line: the greater impact of Korea. OTL, Korea has risen to be a developed industrial country, a peer of the major Euro countries, if not the U.S. or China. And... Korean culture is spreading out. Scan the listings of Netflix and Hulu - lots of Korean TV. ITTL, the Korean war would have been shorter and less destructive, Korea would have been larger, and wealthier sooner...

Perhaps, also, Vietnam.

Oh, and here's a wild card. Chinese impact on world sports. What sports would China compete in? China is prominent in figure skating, gymnastics, and a lot of "Olympic" sports. OTL, Asian women dominate ladies' golf, especially Koreans, and some Thais. China could be huge. (They're also getting into women's tennis, though with no great success yet.) China could be a power in soccer, of course. And here's where that gets weird. Europe dominates soccer, and the best players from other areas all go play there, because that's where the money is. But here's something odd that's going on: India has been into cricket for generations. but recently they have become hot for a short-format version (Twenty/20); it is so popular there that the Indian Premier League is drawing many of the best players from Australia, New Zealand, and other developed countries. India is relatively poor on average, but so large that ther are enough upper class fans to support this.

So, ITTL, China, as large as India, with lots more money. Would the China Premier League of soccer buy all the best players? China is unlikely to take up baseball, due to its association with Japan (its popularity in Taiwan is a vestige of Japanese rule). But if China has taken up baseball... (If there are lots of Americans stationed in China in the 1950s, that might take the curse off baseball for them.) Or basketball.
 
I must say, I'm loving this TL. The world you've built is a very interesting place. I would most certainly like to know a little more about India here, as it appears to have gone through quite a few changes from OTL.
I don't want to ruin too-much right now, but I can say that India will come up in the timeline some point in the near future.

As for its history of India in the 20th Century, let's just say that it was remarkably rocky.

On the subject of pop culture, how are comics doing ITTL?
To be honest, I never delved too deeply into the alt-history of comic books in this timeline (well, at least not yet); the most I probably considered was the rise of Chinese comics during the 50's and 60's (with a drawing style based loosely off Shangan) which would come to both rival (and perhaps overtake) the nascent manga styles coming out of Japan.

Now that I think about it, creating entirely new superheroes and storylines (or perhaps even keeping 'pulp' comics of the 1950's famous) actually sounds like a fun exercise; if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

One thing that will happen soon OTL, and probably happened a while ago ITTL, is the rise of Chinese brands. Not just low-end appliances and electronics, but high-status luxury goods and respected industrial products. Think of how many Italian, French, German, and British brands are world famous. America has a lot too, though from my point of view I can't really judge how widely they are known elsewhere. ITTL China would have a lot.
China, as I've stated before, has been described in TTL as the 'workshop of the world'.

From Enshi and Longya churning out electronics and information-technology, to car manufacturers like QD, SAIC, and Wuhan plastering their names across the world, Chinese brands have massive market appeal to many people because they have a history of reliability and sophistication (at beginning in the 1980's). Following the decline of American manufacturing after the late-1960's (this largely driven by the rise of industrial production in East Asian and Western European), Chinese brands like those I just mentioned experienced a meteoric rise in use and fame - though their appeal was partially driven by how cheap it was to construct a car in China at the time, limiting costs. During the 1970's and into the 1980's, these brands became big deals in Western Europe and (especially) the United States, though many considered them (and Chinese manufacturing in general) as a threat to domestic production and working-class jobs. Of course, beginning in the early-1990's, Chinese brands began to decline from their almost-ubiquitous presence during the 1980's due to rising labour standards (thus increased costs), as well as several trust-busting measures that President Tang Lihuang pursued during his time in office (1989-1996); Enshi being one-such company to be broken-up.

Since the early-1990's, whilst Chinese domestic manufacturing declined with the rise of more cheap (read 'sweatshop') labour coming out of India, West Africa, and Brazil, Chinese brands and manufactured goods nevertheless continue to play a massive role on the international scene, despite the chagrin of many Western companies which feel diluted amidst the sea of Chinese products.

Here's something else in that line: the greater impact of Korea. OTL, Korea has risen to be a developed industrial country, a peer of the major Euro countries, if not the U.S. or China. And... Korean culture is spreading out. Scan the listings of Netflix and Hulu - lots of Korean TV. ITTL, the Korean war would have been shorter and less destructive, Korea would have been larger, and wealthier sooner...
Whilst you're right in saying that the Republic of Korea is (and also was) larger than in OTL, you're not quite right on the 'shorter' and 'less destructive' aspects of that conflict; as mentioned by the Narrator in a previous update, "Thomas Dewey, sent men to Korea and that ultimately turned into the third bloodiest war in American history" (there was a reason Dewey almost lost the 1952 election). Though the Narrator got his facts a bit wrong there ('only' 51,875 Americans died), he was right in insinuating just how bloody a conflict it was; to the point in which Korea is no longer considered by the American people to be the 'Forgotten War' of OTL, and is instead considered a WW1-esque mess of trench warfare and mass charges (though American cultural perception don't really match what the war was really like).

Why is this 'more bloody Korean war' the case even when the Communists lost in China...well, it has to do with terrible luck and planning on the hands of the Anti-Communist forces, Chinese Communist intervention (though in a different manner to what you're probably imagining), and quite a lot of Soviet towards both the 'Manchurians' and North Koreans; though as you could probably infer from the world map in THIS response, the war ended slightly different from OTL.

Oh, and here's a wild card. Chinese impact on world sports. What sports would China compete in? China is prominent in figure skating, gymnastics, and a lot of "Olympic" sports. OTL, Asian women dominate ladies' golf, especially Koreans, and some Thais. China could be huge. (They're also getting into women's tennis, though with no great success yet.) China could be a power in soccer, of course. And here's where that gets weird. Europe dominates soccer, and the best players from other areas all go play there, because that's where the money is. But here's something odd that's going on: India has been into cricket for generations. but recently they have become hot for a short-format version (Twenty/20); it is so popular there that the Indian Premier League is drawing many of the best players from Australia, New Zealand, and other developed countries. India is relatively poor on average, but so large that ther are enough upper class fans to support this.

So, ITTL, China, as large as India, with lots more money. Would the China Premier League of soccer buy all the best players? China is unlikely to take up baseball, due to its association with Japan (its popularity in Taiwan is a vestige of Japanese rule). But if China has taken up baseball... (If there are lots of Americans stationed in China in the 1950s, that might take the curse off baseball for them.) Or basketball.
As you can see in THIS post in the wikibox thread, China's actually not-to-bad when it comes to sports (at least in the Olympics). Though this success has actually been a relatively recent phenomenon that arose from Chinese failures at Montreal in 1976 and Madrid in 1980 (the latter being extra-humiliating due to the fact that it was boycotted by the Eastern Bloc), China has developed a fairly decent 'sporting culture' thanks to the promotion efforts of the Ministry of Sports. In terms of Olympic sports, China particularly excels in events like sailing, rowing, handball, archery, wushu, track cycling, badminton, various swimming events, as well as having a fairly decent men's hockey team in the 90's and 00's (almost on par with Zimbabwe-Rhodesia).

In terms of spectator sports such as basketball, rugby, cricket, or baseball, China is large enough to support decent professional teams (with some on-par with those in the West); however, as you said, soccer is clearly the 'national sport' of China in TTL. After WW2 and the Civil War, Chiang Kai-shek and the KMT actively promoted soccer as a national game due to how easy-to-understand and cheap it was (relatively speaking), the game growing in popularity throughout the 1950's to the point in which it became a nation-wide phenomenon during the 1960's. Reforms to the non-tiered league structure in 1968 led to the creation of a fully-fledged league system the following year, with the Chinese National League (CNL) at the top; a league which today is one of the largest spectator competitions in the world, the sport averaging an attendance of 52,000 people (with one game in 1992 between Beijing Bei and Shanghai Dongya having a record attendance of 118,538). The sheer popularity of soccer in China has made it a hotspot for young up-and-comers in the sport, with many players from around the world taking-up lucrative contracts with the larger and more successful clubs (though there has been increasing calls for a salary cap in recent years). In TTL, many critics have claimed that the Chinese league system has become one 'giant sucking sound' which simply draws in the best players from across the globe with their riches (this criticism ignoring the genuinely high number of talented players China has produced over the years).

Speaking of football, I've been sitting on these two 2014 World Cup wikiboxes for a while now, so I guess it's a better time than ever to post them; both detailing what is perhaps the greatest upset (and largest victory) in the history of the competition;

World Cup (2014).png
World Cup Final (2014).png
 
Is this TL dead?
This particular story itself? I would say yes. I've still been working on expanding TTL's universe in the meantime and I'll probably start something new based around TTL in the near future (most likely focusing on news stories rather than blog updates). In writing this timeline, I figured out that I can't just keep focus on this one particular part of the world; if I am going to return to the world of TTL, I'd rather depict every aspect of the world, not just the United States.
 
This particular story itself? I would say yes. I've still been working on expanding TTL's universe in the meantime and I'll probably start something new based around TTL in the near future (most likely focusing on news stories rather than blog updates). In writing this timeline, I figured out that I can't just keep focus on this one particular part of the world; if I am going to return to the world of TTL, I'd rather depict every aspect of the world, not just the United States.
Appropriate signature is appropriate.
 
This particular story itself? I would say yes. I've still been working on expanding TTL's universe in the meantime and I'll probably start something new based around TTL in the near future (most likely focusing on news stories rather than blog updates). In writing this timeline, I figured out that I can't just keep focus on this one particular part of the world; if I am going to return to the world of TTL, I'd rather depict every aspect of the world, not just the United States.
Nice to see that your going to keep the world TTL is set in going. I especially liked the Zimbabwe update. I met Abel Muzorewa at a graduation party in Luton. He was a very nice, very interesting man.
 
Are you still answering questions about this TL? If so, I have some things that I'm curious about: is North Korea as crazy in this TL as it is in ours, how does the Intervention in Turkey compare to the OTL War on Terror, what is the nicest place in the Middle East, and will we ever know who wins the 2016 presidential election?
 
Top