Tank development without WW2?

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Deleted member 1487

WW2 led to a lot of new standard developments in AFV design, like sloped frontal armor, torsion bar suspension, rear drives, wider tracks etc.
Without combat experience and the exposure to hidden Soviet AFV innovations and their worth in combat how would the major world powers design their tanks into the 1940s and 50s? It seemed like before being exposed to the T-34 the Germans would maintain that boxy structure of their AFVs, narrower tracks, and front drives that were all dumped post-war. The Brits too had just about all the same throughout WW2 and weaker main guns like the Germans. The US based it's M4 Sherman on the lessons for combat in Europe, though it too had some weird designs like the M3 Lee, which was a similar concept to the French Char B1. So by the 1950s would the Soviets then have the world's best armor layout, while the rest of the world keeps more pre-war conventional designs?
 
The rear drive was standard, dating from ww1. Torsion bar suspension was trialed before the ww2 in both Germany and Soviet union, the British would've continued with Christie and Horstmann suspension systems, with low-speed suspensions probably falling out from vogue. The volute spring suspension worked okay, so we'd probably see a later introduction of HVVS than in OTL, with a switch to the torsion bar once seen fit. Soviets were dispensing with Christie suspension with the T-50, KV-1 and T-34M in pipeline.
Both British and Germans were employing howitzers in their tanks intended for infantry support, so we can expect an universal gun (both AP and HE thrower) to appear by mid-1940s. British were also employing the early Cruisers with sloped armor, the French were not far away, along with reasonably wide tracks.
 
The Christie Drive was interwar. And don't forget the T-34 was a product of the Russo-Finnish War, NOT WWII. Once that's revealed it will spur new designs everywhere...
 

Deleted member 1487

The Christie Drive was interwar. And don't forget the T-34 was a product of the Russo-Finnish War, NOT WWII. Once that's revealed it will spur new designs everywhere...
Actually no, the basis for the T-34 was the A-20 design, started in 1937:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34#Development_and_production

There will be no Soviet-Finnish war without WW2, though even the Soviet-Japanese clash won't reveal the latest Soviet AFV designs. How does it get revealed or for that matter later designs? As it was they were an unknown combat quantity, so even if revealed the ineffectiveness of Western designs relatively won't necessarily be known.
 
Without the pre-war pressures that drove rearmament would the USSR still develop he T34 as we know it - or be satisfied with the fast 'Christie' tanks - or also likely the development of the T34 is slowed and the first production tank is the T34M?

I suspect a combination of 'relatively few' T34Ms and KV1s with lots of BT series Light tanks

Would America Bother at all - they had not really until the start of the war with just a few hundred assorted tanks - happily continuing to enjoy their splendid isolation

Britain - well again the development of the Cruiser and Infantry tanks might continue but again would they be rearming with out a rearming Germany? I suspect we would continue to see low number series of tanks being built every few years - possibly of higher quality (ie Matilda II) and large numbers of light tanks such as the MKV and MKVI - ideal for taking on bush fire wars would stay in service for longer. Certainly I cannot see as quickly a change over from Lights to mediums from 1938 (not actually achieved until 1942 for the most part). They would continue to make heavy use of Armoured cars.

Germany again would have a smaller army and not be at war so would require fewer tanks and without exposure to combat with heavy British and French tanks is not going to be concerned with up gunning and designing large cats - further spurred by combat with the Russian tanks. I Suspect that they would continue to utilise the MkIII and MKIV in the same roles they were using them in 1940.
 

Deleted member 1487

Without the pre-war pressures that drove rearmament would the USSR still develop he T34 as we know it - or be satisfied with the fast 'Christie' tanks - or also likely the development of the T34 is slowed and the first production tank is the T34M?

I suspect a combination of 'relatively few' T34Ms and KV1s with lots of BT series Light tanks

Would America Bother at all - they had not really until the start of the war with just a few hundred assorted tanks - happily continuing to enjoy their splendid isolation

Britain - well again the development of the Cruiser and Infantry tanks might continue but again would they be rearming with out a rearming Germany? I suspect we would continue to see low number series of tanks being built every few years - possibly of higher quality (ie Matilda II) and large numbers of light tanks such as the MKV and MKVI - ideal for taking on bush fire wars would stay in service for longer. Certainly I cannot see as quickly a change over from Lights to mediums from 1938 (not actually achieved until 1942 for the most part). They would continue to make heavy use of Armoured cars.

Germany again would have a smaller army and not be at war so would require fewer tanks and without exposure to combat with heavy British and French tanks is not going to be concerned with up gunning and designing large cats - further spurred by combat with the Russian tanks. I Suspect that they would continue to utilise the MkIII and MKIV in the same roles they were using them in 1940.
America would continue to develop tanks...who knows though about the M4 and Pershing. The BT-7 and T-26 were supposed to be replaced by the T-34M with the KV series providing breakthrough ability. The German replacement designs like the VK3001 (replacement for the Pz IV) and VK20 series (replacement for the Pz III) were not much different, just larger and more mechanically advanced. Britain would develop tank designs, but probably would have a LOT lower defense spending. If we assume a POD of no Nazis and wild rearmament the Weimar rearmament plan was effectively to create something like the 1960s-70s Bundeswehr, a small, highly motorized/mechanized, well trained, heavily armed military of about 400k men in the army (beefed up by reservists) that would be available for short sharp wars in Central/Western Europe with strong air support. I'd imagine the Brits would probably focus on air defense and a expeditionary force very similar to what the Germans planned for themselves. The French would probably keep their large mass army of WW1 vintage due to their misunderstanding of the lessons of WW1. Maybe by the 1950s they get it and change once the WW1 generals age out and the fears over another war with Germany recede somewhat.
 
Actually no, the basis for the T-34 was the A-20 design, started in 1937:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34#Development_and_production

There will be no Soviet-Finnish war without WW2, though even the Soviet-Japanese clash won't reveal the latest Soviet AFV designs. How does it get revealed or for that matter later designs? As it was they were an unknown combat quantity, so even if revealed the ineffectiveness of Western designs relatively won't necessarily be known.

Agreed; the A-20 led to the T-32 which led to the T-34. But it was developed before WWII.

No Soviet-Finnish War without WW2? Perhaps less likely but I don't see that as being inevitable...
 
The rear drive was standard, dating from ww1. Torsion bar suspension was trialed before the ww2 in both Germany and Soviet union, the British would've continued with Christie and Horstmann suspension systems, with low-speed suspensions probably falling out from vogue. The volute spring suspension worked okay, so we'd probably see a later introduction of HVVS than in OTL, with a switch to the torsion bar once seen fit. Soviets were dispensing with Christie suspension with the T-50, KV-1 and T-34M in pipeline.

Only real difference between Horstmann and VVSS and HVSS was type and location of the springs
gMROQTX.png

M4A3E8 HVSS
hvss.jpg

and Merkavas use a variant to this day, using half
merkava_4_eurosatory_2010_suspension.JPG

that harkens back to Christie, but external spring, and direct acting.

HVSS was introduced with the M6 in 1941
m6bogie.jpg
 
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