Tamil Buddhism Survives in Tamil Nadu

Say the ancient Tamil Buddhism that flourished in ancient Tamil Nadu survived and flourished in the region. What would happen for the Development of Southern India?
 
Say the ancient Tamil Buddhism that flourished in ancient Tamil Nadu survived and flourished in the region. What would happen for the Development of Southern India?

Sri Lanka wank? (it might butterfly some later Chola invasions of the island...)

More seriously, Buddhism became established in Tamil Nadu during what Hindi propagandists of later centuries considered to be an interregnum. It appears that many Northern influences came into the region during this time, particularly in the arts. Tamil writing and script also was formalized at this time. It is possible, if it survived the Hindu revival, that the South of India would be much more "northernized" in culture and preserved a more "sophisticated" courtly culture.

Of course the usual ramifications of the absence of a (or a lessoned) caste system.
 
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What about a specifically court-sponsored Buddhism coming about later in the Middle Ages? Rather than a surviving Northern-inspired Buddhism, a more Tamil Buddhism (perhaps a Vajrayana strain with roles for deities like Murugan) sponsored by a distinctly Dravidian/Tamil court culture?
 
What about a specifically court-sponsored Buddhism coming about later in the Middle Ages? Rather than a surviving Northern-inspired Buddhism, a more Tamil Buddhism (perhaps a Vajrayana strain with roles for deities like Murugan) sponsored by a distinctly Dravidian/Tamil court culture?

I suspect, that the flexible nature of Hinduism would simply subsume Buddhism, as it largely did in India OTL. I think any Hindu revival in the region nerfs Buddhism. Perhaps if a Hindi peasantry and a Buddhist ruling class could co-exist? So long as that ruling class was not perceived to be "foreign" but Tamil? The OTL Tamil Nadu Buddhists seem to have had a distinctly non- Tamil courtly culture. Much would also depend on external pressures from neighboring Hindu polities.
I wonder if the particular Sinhalese variety of Theravāda Buddhism of Sri Lanka could gain influence in Tamil Nada? Although the historical animosities run deep...

I think we need the Board's S. Asian specialists to chime in.;)
 
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What about a specifically court-sponsored Buddhism coming about later in the Middle Ages? Rather than a surviving Northern-inspired Buddhism, a more Tamil Buddhism (perhaps a Vajrayana strain with roles for deities like Murugan) sponsored by a distinctly Dravidian/Tamil court culture?

Look at SE Asia for possible analogues. Buddhism and Jainism in the Tamil country and Kerala were pretty strong long after Buddhism had had declined in North India. This is the reason why, in Kerala, the upper castes were were so small and so rigid- they saw themselves as pure, dominating a largely outcasts lower class. Of course if Buddhism remains dominant in the South, that gives yet another differentiator between South and North India.
 
I suspect, that the flexible nature of Hinduism would simply subsume Buddhism, as it largely did in India OTL. I think any Hindu revival in the region nerfs Buddhism. Perhaps if a Hindi peasantry and a Buddhist ruling class could co-exist? So long as that ruling class was not perceived to be "foreign" but Tamil? The OTL Tamil Nadu Buddhists seem to have had a distinctly non- Tamil courtly culture. Much would also depend on external pressures from neighboring Hindu polities.
I wonder if the particular Sinhalese variety of Theravāda Buddhism of Sri Lanka could gain influence in Tamil Nada? Although the historical animosities run deep...

I think we need the Board's S. Asian specialists to chime in.;)

Rather than a Hindu revival I think we should recognise that mediaeval Hinduism is a creation of the period where Buddhism was dominant. They weren't reviving the Pre Buddhist dharmic religion, they were adapting various aspects of Buddhism to it to create a very different religion.

I doubt Sinhalese Buddhism would be necessary because there were existing Tamil and Malayalee variants that coexisted with the worship of various deities deities so you could still have devotees of Murugan etc

Looking at SE Asian indianised kingdoms the closest modern comparison seems seems to be modern Japan where shinto and buddhism coexist with each tending to serve different purposes- in Japan rites tend to govern birth and death while shinto practice covers day to day spirituality. You could see something similar with Hinduism and Buddhism
 
Look at SE Asia for possible analogues. Buddhism and Jainism in the Tamil country and Kerala were pretty strong long after Buddhism had had declined in North India. This is the reason why, in Kerala, the upper castes were were so small and so rigid- they saw themselves as pure, dominating a largely outcasts lower class. Of course if Buddhism remains dominant in the South, that gives yet another differentiator between South and North India.

Rather than a Hindu revival I think we should recognise that mediaeval Hinduism is a creation of the period where Buddhism was dominant. They weren't reviving the Pre Buddhist dharmic religion, they were adapting various aspects of Buddhism to it to create a very different religion.

I doubt Sinhalese Buddhism would be necessary because there were existing Tamil and Malayalee variants that coexisted with the worship of various deities deities so you could still have devotees of Murugan etc

Looking at SE Asian indianised kingdoms the closest modern comparison seems seems to be modern Japan where shinto and buddhism coexist with each tending to serve different purposes- in Japan rites tend to govern birth and death while shinto practice covers day to day spirituality. You could see something similar with Hinduism and Buddhism

Thanks! I have plans for my medieval TL for a maritime Tamil-Buddhist Empire (not one of those AH wankish ones, but one that does have a larger effect in the Indian Ocean) under the Cholas or the Pandyans.
 
Rather than a Hindu revival I think we should recognise that mediaeval Hinduism is a creation of the period where Buddhism was dominant. They weren't reviving the Pre Buddhist dharmic religion, they were adapting various aspects of Buddhism to it to create a very different religion.

I doubt Sinhalese Buddhism would be necessary because there were existing Tamil and Malayalee variants that coexisted with the worship of various deities deities so you could still have devotees of Murugan etc

Looking at SE Asian indianised kingdoms the closest modern comparison seems seems to be modern Japan where shinto and buddhism coexist with each tending to serve different purposes- in Japan rites tend to govern birth and death while shinto practice covers day to day spirituality. You could see something similar with Hinduism and Buddhism

Excellent points.
Yes, I wasn't suggesting a return to pre-Buddhist Hinduism (in its many forms) would be in the works but a Hinduism that digests and processes Buddhism to create a new synthesis, a new form of Hinduism (also in many different flavors).
The Japanese experience as an analogue for what could come to pass in Tamil Nadu sounds very compelling.
 
Yeah, the Cholas are really interesting- although the Pandyans are cool insofar as they (or really Madurai) are old enough to be mentioned in the Periplus.
 
Is Kerala named for them, or vice-versa? And yeah, I might also use the Cheras (after all, no dynasty rules forever...)
 
Is Kerala named for them, or vice-versa? And yeah, I might also use the Cheras (after all, no dynasty rules forever...)

Cheras would be great! I love all-things Kerala -- a part of the sub-continent which probably gets even less love than most other parts of criminally neglected India in AH....
 
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