Tamerlane's Inheritence is Secure

Tamerlane's son Jahangir Mirza I is alive and participates in the Timurid conquest of the Ming. Let's say he takes command of the 200,000 troops in Kazakhstan. His relatives back home respect his legitimacy due to him being the long time heir. After quickly mourning the death of his warlord father he leads a campaign with the help of the Northern Yuan to take Beijing.
 
I'm very sorry if bumping is against the rules but I can't find them to make sure. Anyways I see there is a lack of Medieval alternate histories so I wanted to turn this into a possible scenario.
 

Zioneer

Banned
Bumping is usually only allowed if you have something new to say and that you've waited about 24 hours (though this is fluid, depending on how fast the thread goes).

As for the PoD, I would imagine that the Timurids would have a Mongol-esque evolution, where a strong-ish successor conquers China, but weaker and weaker successors are unable to hold everything together. I'm not too sure on that though, as I'm not too familiar with the Timurids.

EDIT: Something new to say, not nothing new to say, sorry.
 
I'd tend to agree with Zioneer, there.
One could hold Persia or China, but both in the same time would have been hellish : too great disparities, different structures without even considering distances.

As for securing a sole inheritence, I'm not sure it would have been doable : even with a conquest of China, I wonder if it wouldn't have went as "Okay, as you conquered it, you can keep it. But we'll share the rest" : the succession wars after Timur's death can point that legitimacy or prestige didn't that entered in count, after all.

Maybe, a situation where Jahangir Mirza is granted with China and some form of suzerainty over other Timurid states?

I wonder how much a Timurid China wouldn't collide with Islamisation of Timurids, that said. Would it remain superficial, when it was a necessity to rule over Islamized populations or having a suzerainty over rulers ruling over these directly?
 
It seems as though the Timurids are not well known at all. The original heir to the throne of Timur was supposed to inherit the entire empire without a fight but then he died, and the next two heirs died so eventually the grandson was chosen. So basically no pretenders and relative peace and that would mean a longer lasting nation than in our timeline. Perhap Timur's descendants industrialize and eventually make it a gunpowder empire. And after centuries of rule it eventually collapses as the Manchu, Persians, and possibly Russians and Ottomans sieze the land. Timur will forever go down as the reincarnation of Genghis Khan.
 
It seems as though the Timurids are not well known at all. The original heir to the throne of Timur was supposed to inherit the entire empire without a fight but then he died, and the next two heirs died so eventually the grandson was chosen. So basically no pretenders and relative peace and that would mean a longer lasting nation than in our timeline. Perhap Timur's descendants industrialize and eventually make it a gunpowder empire. And after centuries of rule it eventually collapses as the Manchu, Persians, and possibly Russians and Ottomans sieze the land. Timur will forever go down as the reincarnation of Genghis Khan.
I am afraid that at any given moment the Empire of Tamerlane was destined to be in some kind of turmoil after his death.

No matter when he dies there must be some squabble in the Empire because that's the way he created it. All the military power belonged to Tamerlane; he gave provinces to his sons and grandsons but (and that is a very important 'but') their military commanders were responsible directly to Tamerlane himself, which made his sons/grandsons mostly figureheads (at least military).

That meant that Timur's (grand)sons cannot go to their soldiers and give them any command, no, they gave their order to their commander-in-chief and if he thought it appropriate he gave the command to the troops. But if the (grand)sons' commander-in-chief thought that this command is not consistent with his instructions from Tamerlane - than no soldiers did anything.

That system was perfect to prevent any attempt of usurpation/revolt/disobedience from Timur's (grand)sons. But when he died he left his successors without any real experience of independent military command with a bunch of seasoned famous warlords who owed personal loyalties of their soldiers. Which sometimes looked like a puppy trying to lead a pack of wild wolves.

The tradition of Chagatai Ulus (which was an ethnic core of the Empire) was an old Mongol custom of a free will of a free Mongol to switch loyalties whenever it suited him, there was no dishonor in it.

Of course the warriors worshipped Timur and part of his fame his (grand)sons inherited, but there was one more problem - Tamerlane's rule did not have any steppe legitimacy, he was not Chengizzid and consequently neither he nor his successors had any right for a title of Khan. Which did not make it any easier for his bloodline to keep power as they were just bloodline of a warlord, very famous and charismatic general, but still... It was not a gold bloodline of Chengizz Khan, the only royal bloodline that mattered in steppe.
 
I am afraid that at any given moment the Empire of Tamerlane was destined to be in some kind of turmoil after his death.

No matter when he dies there must be some squabble in the Empire because that's the way he created it. All the military power belonged to Tamerlane; he gave provinces to his sons and grandsons but (and that is a very important 'but') their military commanders were responsible directly to Tamerlane himself, which made his sons/grandsons mostly figureheads (at least military).

That meant that Timur's (grand)sons cannot go to their soldiers and give them any command, no, they gave their order to their commander-in-chief and if he thought it appropriate he gave the command to the troops. But if the (grand)sons' commander-in-chief thought that this command is not consistent with his instructions from Tamerlane - than no soldiers did anything.

That system was perfect to prevent any attempt of usurpation/revolt/disobedience from Timur's (grand)sons. But when he died he left his successors without any real experience of independent military command with a bunch of seasoned famous warlords who owed personal loyalties of their soldiers. Which sometimes looked like a puppy trying to lead a pack of wild wolves.

The tradition of Chagatai Ulus (which was an ethnic core of the Empire) was an old Mongol custom of a free will of a free Mongol to switch loyalties whenever it suited him, there was no dishonor in it.

Of course the warriors worshipped Timur and part of his fame his (grand)sons inherited, but there was one more problem - Tamerlane's rule did not have any steppe legitimacy, he was not Chengizzid and consequently neither he nor his successors had any right for a title of Khan. Which did not make it any easier for his bloodline to keep power as they were just bloodline of a warlord, very famous and charismatic general, but still... It was not a gold bloodline of Chengizz Khan, the only royal bloodline that mattered in steppe.

Is there any way for this to be avoided? Or at least end without major losses?
 
Is there any way for this to be avoided? Or at least end without major losses?
I am afraid no.
For that you would need a very very alternative Tamerlane, not a real one. OTL Timur was a genius to hold tightly all his unruly treacherous Chagatai Mongols in his iron fist - meaning that there was no one, I repeat no one having any power, influence, authority which was close to his, including his own (grand)sons.
Chengizz Khan created his Empire since very beginning as the shared patrimony of the Borigine Clan/Bloodline. The Tamerlane's Empire was his and his only, he trusted no one, no brother, no uncle, no son, no grandson. While he was alive he would not give any part of his power to anyone.
 
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I am afraid no.
For that you would need a very very alternative Tamerlane, not a real one. OTL Timur was a genius to hold tightly all his unruly treacherous Chagatai Mongols in his iron fist - meaning that there was no one, I repeat no one having any power, influence, authority which was close to his, including his own (grand)sons.

What if he lives ten years longer, settles down and begins to reform the government? A change of heart in China?
 
My guess that him getting old and moving farther from his heartland would make him even more paranoid :)

Going back to Samarkand? Talking to the Ottomans? I really need to salvage this somehow. Or how about a defeat in China only to invade Anatolia
 
I'm not sure I would bet against the Ming at this point. The Hongwu Emperor versus Tamurlane would be, umm, bloody.
 
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