Well if the Ottoman empaier is gone in 1402 then we have a strong Hungary in the 1700eds so no Habsburg empaier. A totali diferent Europe, even the rusians will have problems. I think Anatolia will be conquered by persia or anouther country like georgia or armenia. In the balkan there will be a free for all. Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece and Venice against each other. The turkish population will be cought betwen this powerss and sloughtered almost to the last men. After all, al remaining greit powers considers them invaiders so acording to balkan and medieval tradition there will be ethnic clensing, genocide. I dont think a slavic superpower is posible. Something like today but thats it. Anatolia is conquered by the persians or syrians or armenians
Tamerlan destroys the Ottoman Empire
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Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Granted this a map of the situation a century before but just because the Ottomans are gone does not necessarily mean that the Turks are going to be wiped clean from the face of the Earth as the poster above me seems to be implying. If the Ottomans are gone, what's to stop Germiyan or the Karamanids to take their place as the premier power in Anatolia.
http://rbedrosian.com/Maps/muhamm29.htm Here's the 1360 map.
It won't wipe Anatolia clean of Turks, but it will wipe the western part clean of any Turkish states.
It won't wipe Anatolia clean of Turks, but it will wipe the western part clean of any Turkish states.
I think a Byzantine revival is actually possible in 1402, with this scenario. Byzantium was blessed with three good Paleologus rulers during this period OTL, but the Ottomans were too strong to resist at that point. Before he became Emperor, Constantine managed to conquer the small Latin remnants and make a lot of progress against the Slavs. He was only driven back by the Turks. Supposing the Turks weren't around to stop him, he might have restored the European territory of Byzantium to something like its 1300 borders.
However, the Ottoman army must be annihilated entirely by Timur for this to be feasible. Remember, during this time, Western Anatolia's population was still very Greek, even if the ruling class had been replaced by the Turks. If you have a situation where Turkish power is balkanized and the surviving Emirs fight each other instead of getting organized again, I could see the Byzantines making inroads into the area.
In other words with three good rulers, a complete Ottoman collapse and infighting amont the Turk remnant states, a Byzantine revival is still possible, though this would be a ressurection of Byzantium around 1270 - 1300. The borders of Basil II's Empire, or even that of Manuel's Empire, are simply unrealistic in the extreme. At best, and this might even be ASB, you'd have a restoration of 1204 Byzantium, just before the 4th crusade destroyed it... the coastal fringes of and western regions of Anatolia plus most of the southern balkans. The interior was far too assimilated by the Turkish population to ever go back to Byzantium. The last opportunity for that was squandered by Manuel in 1176.
However, all of that depends on a scenario where all Ottoman princes and the majority of the army are killed by Timur, and the European base of power falls.
However, the Ottoman army must be annihilated entirely by Timur for this to be feasible. Remember, during this time, Western Anatolia's population was still very Greek, even if the ruling class had been replaced by the Turks. If you have a situation where Turkish power is balkanized and the surviving Emirs fight each other instead of getting organized again, I could see the Byzantines making inroads into the area.
In other words with three good rulers, a complete Ottoman collapse and infighting amont the Turk remnant states, a Byzantine revival is still possible, though this would be a ressurection of Byzantium around 1270 - 1300. The borders of Basil II's Empire, or even that of Manuel's Empire, are simply unrealistic in the extreme. At best, and this might even be ASB, you'd have a restoration of 1204 Byzantium, just before the 4th crusade destroyed it... the coastal fringes of and western regions of Anatolia plus most of the southern balkans. The interior was far too assimilated by the Turkish population to ever go back to Byzantium. The last opportunity for that was squandered by Manuel in 1176.
However, all of that depends on a scenario where all Ottoman princes and the majority of the army are killed by Timur, and the European base of power falls.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
This is from the Linguistics maps thread. It gives a decent lookout on how spread out Hellenophones were up to the 1400s.
I am not sure that the interior being held by Turks necessarily means that it can't be taken. There's nothing that means the Byzantines can't rule Muslim Turks - sure they have to practice religious toleration to some extent (which is not impossible for a state which regularly dealt with Muslim rulers as part of a masterful understanding realpolitick long before the term was coined - this isn't to say it would be easy, but the ERE isn't founded on dogmatic Christianity, despite being emphatically and proudly both "Roman" and Christian) and the Turks have to accept their rule, but the reason the end of the Comneni marks the end of the chance is simply that the state is in no position to contest it - if it hadn't broken up, you might see an attempt to try again somewhere between 1200 and 1250.
But with the resources the state has, the 1261 (the map below is 1265, but close enough) borders would be the most the Byzantines can regain at this point. Defined as up until Constantine XI's natural death - call it 1470 or so.
The state simply does not have the resources for the kind of campaigning it would take regain all the Macedonian dynasty empire, even if it could establish some kind of working relationship with the Muslim Turks. Even counting regaining the Latin lands in full and pushing the Serbs and Bulgarians back.
http://rbedrosian.com/Maps/shpha89.htm
But with the resources the state has, the 1261 (the map below is 1265, but close enough) borders would be the most the Byzantines can regain at this point. Defined as up until Constantine XI's natural death - call it 1470 or so.
The state simply does not have the resources for the kind of campaigning it would take regain all the Macedonian dynasty empire, even if it could establish some kind of working relationship with the Muslim Turks. Even counting regaining the Latin lands in full and pushing the Serbs and Bulgarians back.
http://rbedrosian.com/Maps/shpha89.htm
The 1261 borders, plus the lands of the various Latin states in Greece. I could see a unified southern Balkans, including albania, thrace and greece, plus western asia minor. Trebizond could fall back into the fold through marriage, though not likely through conquest. That's about it, though.
Bulgaria and the slavic states are permanently off limits. Crete and Cyprus might revert, eventually, but it wouldn't be simple or easy to achieve with the Venetians in control of both.
Bulgaria and the slavic states are permanently off limits. Crete and Cyprus might revert, eventually, but it wouldn't be simple or easy to achieve with the Venetians in control of both.
Tricky. Without Ottoman hegemony in Anatolia, the area will either become victim to endless power struggles between the small Turkish states, or one of the aforementioned states could replace the Ottomans as the premier Anatolian power.
In Greece, this does, admittably, leave a positively golden opprotunity for the Byzantines. Byzantine rule over all or most of Greece could become a real possibility, if they play their cards right. I don't think that the Byzantines could manage to launch themselves into Anatolia, however, without first consolidating their power base in Greece, lest they become victims of opprotunistic Balkan states.
In Greece, this does, admittably, leave a positively golden opprotunity for the Byzantines. Byzantine rule over all or most of Greece could become a real possibility, if they play their cards right. I don't think that the Byzantines could manage to launch themselves into Anatolia, however, without first consolidating their power base in Greece, lest they become victims of opprotunistic Balkan states.
Why are they off limits? The Byzantines controlled them before, why can't they regain control - assuming resources permit, which is of course the problem.