Take the Bat out of the Mammal

The only place I can think of that comes close to fitting those criteria is Ireland.

I can fairly easily see Hitler ordering such an operation, but I have a very hard time seeing any result other than a complete Allied victory. If any troops actually got ashore, Ireland might wind up joining the Allies. Of course, that might lead to another Irish civil war...

What about the Shetlands?
 
Okay, a very basic summary is this: All the Axis held ports in North Africa, taken together, had a capacity for supply ships barely large enough to sustain the troops already in North Africa.

If you put in more divisions, there's less supply to go around, and if you keep pouring in more troops you end up with vehicles that can't move, weapons that can't fire, men who can't be fed, and ultimately a whole lot of prisoners for the British forces.

In order for the Axis to win in North Africa, they have to:
1) Drive the British out with the troops already in theatre, or
2) Capture additional port facilities, or
3) Expand facilities in Libya pre-war.

Without extra supplies, additional troops are more of a burden than a blessing.

Ah. So the use of the Luftwaffe as aerial interdiction of British attempts to interdict supply convoys suffers from the same defects, right? I'm just curious. The idea that more troops in itself is a good idea was stupid, I'm just not sure whether or not the Luftwaffe contributing to a stronger Siege of Malta or to stopping British attempts to stop shipments of fuel to the Axis troops there would suffer those same defects.
 
What about the Shetlands?

Awfully close to Scapa Flow.

Hmm. OK, here's a wild and unresearched thought:

The Germans land a small force in the Shetlands, easily capturing the islands. Slightly in advance of the raiding force transports is a mine-laying group that lays drifting mines between Scapa and the Shetlands.

When the RN sorties to smash the landing force (politically they have to, and quickly) they can be expected to lose several ships to mines. Once they realize there's a mine field, they either send in minesweepers (giving the raiders time to withdraw) or suffer heavy casualties running the mines.

Thoughts?
 
Awfully close to Scapa Flow.

Hmm. OK, here's a wild and unresearched thought:

The Germans land a small force in the Shetlands, easily capturing the islands. Slightly in advance of the raiding force transports is a mine-laying group that lays drifting mines between Scapa and the Shetlands.

When the RN sorties to smash the landing force (politically they have to, and quickly) they can be expected to lose several ships to mines. Once they realize there's a mine field, they either send in minesweepers (giving the raiders time to withdraw) or suffer heavy casualties running the mines.

Thoughts?

There's a huge amount of sea between Scapa and the Shetlands, I should know I took the ferry...

I suppose the Germans COULD take the Shetlands, after all they had plans at the limit of feasibility to invade Iceland. The real question would be what does it achieve? I suppose it allows air bases to be built putting Scapa in much easier reach, but the garrison is going to have to be largely supplied by air, and the Shetlands themselves aren't much of an important place.

I would be interesting though... It would certainly be quite tough to hold down, and there'd be proper guerilla war and no doubt bloody German reprisals and lots of smuggling and SBS opportunities

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

The Sandman

Banned
Hey, Grey Wolf! As long as you're here, what about the Isles of Scilly? As should be obvious from my previous posts in the thread, I think they might be the best option for the Germans from both a "we can take them" standpoint and from a "they'll be useful once we have them" standpoint, but there doesn't seem to be much information on their defenses as of June or July 1940.
 
The real question would be what does it achieve? I suppose it allows air bases to be built putting Scapa in much easier reach

you've answered it yourself.
either transfer RN from Scapa Flow to somewhere else outside of the airport (logistic nightmare) or having to do a sea landing (bloody affair).
at the very last, having to split RAF and trasfer a part north.
And then, to keep UK under pressure ("what's next? they could arrive anywhere!")
is it possible to dig in there? anybody has an idea of the topography?
can you reasonably dig or is it all rock?
is there any strongpoint?
They are basically sacrified troops and in the long run they're going to be overrun (if the british are not forced to a peace deal before), but how long could they hold?
 
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you've answered it yourself.
either transfer RN from Scapa Flow to somewhere else outside of the airport (logistic nightmare) or having to do a sea landing (bloody affair).
at the very last, having to split RAF and trasfer a part north.
And then, to keep UK under pressure ("what's next? they could arrive anywhere!")
is it possible to dig in there? anybody has an idea of the topography?
can you reasonably dig or is it all rock?
is there any strongpoint?
They are basically sacrified troops and in the long run they're going to be overrun (if the british are not forced to a peace deal before), but how long could they hold?

Pretty rocky, I think.
 
The weather is also terrible. I dont think air supply using 1940's planes is going to work. Even during the so-called summer....
 
Which of the Shetland Islands are you going to invade. Actually it doesnt matter which one there are no airstrips worth a damn in 1940 the weather is bloody awful for planes there is precious little food and the Royal Navy isnt going to let you land supplies by sea. The ports are small and not capable of taking a decent sized vesel there are no proper dock facilities and everything has to come by air. The Ju52 transports have to fly from Norway and back because they cant land how much is each airdropped load of supplies going to be.

The best thing the British Military could do would simply be wait till the German troops gave up which would probably be days as the Germans realise they have been dropped into a cold wet and windy POW camp.

So the result is utter humiliation for Germany as its finest troops give up without a shot being fired. Boy is the British propoganda service going to make sure that one runs and runs round the world.
 

MrP

Banned
Rocks can be good - they tend to stop bullets. Of course, it is easy to have too many of them.

From what I recall of the Austro-Italian front in WWI, rocks are very bad, because explosions generate a lot of natural shrapnel.
 
From what I recall of the Austro-Italian front in WWI, rocks are very bad, because explosions generate a lot of natural shrapnel.
I'd say rocks favour defenders in an assault
anyhow.

Any ides of the topography? hills? mountains? plain?
could be possible to build an airstrip, even if there's no one there?
is there any natural stronghold?
could any of the haroburs/bays harbour a middle-sized submarine?
 

MrP

Banned
I'd say rocks favour defenders in an assault
anyhow.

Well, it depends what you're doing, I suppose. If one can mine, one'd have several feet of rock between oneself and explosions. Nor can an attacker fire a bullet through a rock. On the other hand, one can't dig a trench in rock, and, as I say, there's the whole shrapnel question.
 
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