It sure will suck for those Polish-(Lithuanian) colonies in the Caribbean once sugar beet becomes widespread, though, since it was invented right next door to the PLC in Silesia and currently Ukraine is #6 globally for sugar beet production (and Poland #7).
Take a country that historically had no colonies and find a plausible location for it to colonize
- Thread starter Steno
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It sure will suck for those Polish-(Lithuanian) colonies in the Caribbean once sugar beet becomes widespread, though, since it was invented right next door to the PLC in Silesia and currently Ukraine is #6 globally for sugar beet production (and Poland #7).
althisfan
Banned
But sugar beets only (in OTL) produce 20% of the world's production of sugar. Beets have to be planted new each year, sugar cane though is "a renewable resource" in that it is a grass that is simply cut and regrows next season. The US is the THIRD largest sugar beet producer, has 55% of it's domestic sugar come from beets grown in 11 states, and even with sugar from domestic cane grown in 4 states, it can't produce enough sugar for domestic use and is a net sugar importer. OTL Eastern Europe is a net importer of sugar. Poland-Lithuania will need sugar from cane produce. There's always a demand for sugar, and if you can produce it domestically all the better.
I don't know much but a union is unlikely if they are equal. However, a strong alliance is not ASB IMO. Korea still had many disadvantages to industrialize compared to Japan. I imagine Korea under King Munjo would have to reform first. Then Japan after Meiji Restoration would follow, looking up to the former as an example. With a different view on Korea in TTL, Japan might actively seek to establish an alliance with them (I still think Japan wouldn't be behind Korea much even though they started later). If the threat from Russia was even more menacing (for example, wanting to annex Hokkaido and turn Korea into a protectorate?), it would be the perfect reason for these 2 East Asian countries to rely on each other and form of bloc of their own.
The only thing that might hinder this alliance is their different views on China but I'm not very sure.
Could envision an ATL Japan-Korean alliance being established in the face of potential threats from Russia and possibly China, depending on where the latter ends up.
How would an ATL China with a successful post-Xinhai Revolution Constitutional monarchy under the Duke of Yansheng (as the Later Yin Dynasty) likely view Japan and a post-Munjo Korea? Would China perceive both as a threat alliance or no alliance, let alone try to take on both at once should relations go down south?
I think it's a bit hard pressed to put the Duke of Yansheng on the throne despite Sun Yat Sen's positive attitude regarding Confucianism. Anyway, my map inspired by this Korean-Japanese alliance, there are some ASB details but please don't mind.
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Interesting. Was just thinking what the Korean-Japanese version of the Anglo-French Entente Cordiale would likely have been called.
Beyond the map. Which out of post-Xinhai Revolution Constitutional monarchy ATL China or this Korean-Japanese alliance would collaborate with the Axis Powers or at least remained neutral during WW2?
OTL China had the Sino-German cooperation on the one hand prior to WW2, while OTL Japan was interested in forming an alliance with Germany against the Soviet Union. How would things change in this scenario of a Korean-Japanese alliance and a ATL China under a constitutional monarchy (sans the Chinese Civil War)? Would this ATL China seek to regain Outer Manchuria / Outer Northeast China?
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Austrian Soqotra, potentially espanding to parts of Somalia. Alternatively or in addition, Austrian North Borneo.
The Grand Duchy of Tuscany tried to prepare a colony in OTL French Guyana, but the Grand Duke died at an inconvenient time (and in any case it would have been very difficult to hold, given the insalubrity of the area and the presence of aggressive neighbours).
Don't know if an Ottoman protectorate on Aceh would count, but that could be a possibility too.
The Grand Duchy of Tuscany tried to prepare a colony in OTL French Guyana, but the Grand Duke died at an inconvenient time (and in any case it would have been very difficult to hold, given the insalubrity of the area and the presence of aggressive neighbours).
Don't know if an Ottoman protectorate on Aceh would count, but that could be a possibility too.
Austria could have had long-lasting colonies had the Austrian East India Company in the early eighteenth century using the Austrian Netherlands as a port, which collected large amounts of revenue in its own time, not been forced to fold by British pressure. It would have been pretty interesting if, British-style, Austrian influence spread in India as native empires collapsed.
Brazil is another option and could have inherited Portugal's colonies had United Kingdom of Brazil, Portugal, and the Algarves not come to an end. Brazilian Goa, for instance, would be a very interesting place indeed.
Brazil is another option and could have inherited Portugal's colonies had United Kingdom of Brazil, Portugal, and the Algarves not come to an end. Brazilian Goa, for instance, would be a very interesting place indeed.
Driftless
Donor
By extension.... Norway or Denmark retains one or more of the: Azores, Canary Islands, Madeira, etc into the 20th Century
Yes, a survival of the Ostend Company is an interesting scenario and, I think, relatively easy to get, if Maria Theresa is born a boy and there is no need for all the compromises leading to the Pragmatic Alliance.
I'm not talking about the Ostend Company here, though that's also an interesting scenario. I'm talking about the Austrian East India Company, an earlier entity which was shut down by British pressure.
Austria-Hungary was a very special case where the German plurality was only slightly (24% vs 20% in 1910) larger than the next largest group, the Hungarians, and the two composite kingdoms were nearly equal in land area. The Austrians had to concede to the Hungarians and give them the Ausgleich after the Empire was wobbling from its defeat by the Prussians and it needed the support of the Hungarian upper class to keep the nation from falling apart financially and cartographically. Not only that, the Austrian Empire was composed of a great many ethnic and cultural groups, of which the Austrians and Hungarians only made up a plurality and compromise between the two was necessary for managing the nascent nationalistic movements springing up all over Europe in the wake of the chaos of the mid-1800s.
A Japanese-Korean entity lacks quite a bit of those same pressures. The Japanese population has historically consistently been larger than the Korean population, reaching 3x of the Joseon population during the Imperial era, and Japan proper+Taiwan is 2x the size of the Korean peninsula. Including Manchuria adds a huge number of Chinese into the mix but Japanese still remains the majority of the Empire in total and integrating the Chinese into a foreign nation when a Chinese nation exists is a bit...problematic? Anyways, even if the Koreans conquer Manchuria first in Munjo's time, it wouldn't really an integral part of their Empire the way the Carpathians and the Balkans were for Hungary due to length of time it's been held, so it'd make no difference to the Japanese to just administer it themselves versus having the Koreans do it.
In the end, the Japanese would inevitably dominate that sort of union just from sheer population and land area if it starts out equal.
In terms of an alliance, that too is a bit problematic since the Japanese were very sensitive about who held the Korean peninsula (a dagger pointed at the heart of Japan) the way the British were about Antwerp (a great fear of a foreign power making use of that staging point to invade the country which never actually paid off because no one has ever used that staging point and any attacks or invasions planned involved different ports and routes) and there was plenty of propaganda and influences to invade the Korean peninsula a third (or fourth, if pre-1000 stories are to be believed) time (Saigō Takamori wanted it in the 1870s) while the Joseon historically looked down on the Japanese as an inferior, upstart culture. The Joseon would have to modernize and remove tributary relations with the Qing before Japan can modernize (which is a difficult task in and of itself due to the plethora of conditions which made Japan's Meiji Restoration and its rapid social, economic, and political change possible, like the trade with the Dutch that the Koreans did not have and Western Great Power attention that focused mainly on the vast untapped markets of the Qing and Japan) so that there is no weakness to be found and exploited by Japan. Issue is, the Joseon didn't have military, political, or economic incentive to fight the Qing because they'd tried twice before (back when the Qing only had Manchuria with terrible results) or to modernize and self-strengthen until it became apparent that the Qing could no longer protect them, which was after the Europeans and Japan beat on it, which provides a point which is far too late to catch up with Japan. An early reformer would, unless the circumstances made it absolutely necessary, be deposed, poisoned, made ineffectual, or just removed like the number of Joseon kings with unorthodox opinions who tried to institute policies conflicting with traditional Confucian norms and the court's own desires (like King Gwanghaegun was exiled for trying to avoid war with the Manchu, Prince Sohyeon died under mysterious circumstances maybe involving his own father and an ink slab to the head, Jeongjo likewise killed, and all the other political nonsense that plagued the Joseon).
I'd say that the Joseon would have to have suffered a different Imjin War, one that confirmed the need to modernize even more due to the unreliability of Chinese aid (to force independence and remove all complacency) and centralized power from the ministers to the king so as to avoid the court politics that deposed kings and allowed yangban families like the Andong Kims from putting their puppet child kings
on the throne. Post-Imjin War, the nation's devastated, tied down to the Ming (which the court would use to drag the Joseon into conflict with the nascent Manchu), and in the control of the yangban, who end up deposing Gwanghaegun and Injo, revealing the complete lack of royal authority in the kingdom, and stagnating the country for another 300 years.
Driftless
Donor
A further AH thought.... IF Norway or Denmark hold one or more of those islands into the middle of the 20th Century, what might happen during WW1, or especially WW2? Strategic locations for naval and air bases for both the Allies or the Axis.
With Constantinople? Ofcourse!Maybe a Cadet Branch on a Greek State?