Taiwan Purchase by USA

[Susano]

Nice. Instead of discussing whether or not a REAL historical event occurred, you whine about how it's an AH cliche. What's next, you're going to complain that the U.S. purchasing Alaska was cliched?

Problem is it IS a problem. I cant count the threads of Americans, mostly newbies, asking WI USA had purchased this and that. There was a reason the purchases of Louisiana, Alaska and the Gasden territory happened - as a rule, countries dont just go around offering the USA land!

 

[Shadow Knight]

Problem is it IS a problem. I cant count the threads of Americans, mostly newbies, asking WI USA had purchased this and that. There was a reason the purchases of Louisiana, Alaska and the Gasden territory happened - as a rule, countries dont just go around offering the USA land!

Well the Dominicans did offer to become a US state...

 

[DTF955Baseballfan]

Well the Dominicans did offer to become a US state...

I once did a parody of this for a tape I made a friend for listening to while he was riding with his parents to visit relatives several states away. (This was in high school, I made a few of these.) As part of the plot, a poor, third world nation offers to sell *everything* they own to the U.S. - then just asks to bome a state even though it was on the other side of the world.

It included some other weird stuff as well - the President and Vice President resigning and appointing each other severn times, Congress keeps accepting, and so the guy's like 44th, 46, 48, 50th...president And, the Soviets nuking the Chinese capital, with the President saying, "So that explains why I can't get ahold of the Chinese Premier."

All this is to say that there are those times it happens, but they tend to get out of control when people don't stop to think of how it could be done and the circumstances that revolved around it. On both sides - including those who call it "forced" when, as I say, the times the U.S. did buy land were sort of like going down to the used car lot and trying to talk the guy down. (Pictures wild, loud used car ad with, instead or cars, the owner sitting in an executive chair and saying "Nobody...NO-BODY...sells territory for less..."

Hmmm, would make an interesting ASB thread if someone did that in a country.

 

[Wendell]

*Italian accent*
Now, listen here Mr. Meiji; I'm gonna make you an offer you can't refuse. Sell us Taiwan, and we won't turn your little capital and your paper-and-plaster castle into rubble. I will be glad to pay you handsomely for it; enough to pay for a thousand nights with your favorite geishas. You don't want anything happening to your precious Tokyo, now do you?.
*end accent*

Amusing, but riddled with errors.

 

[Nicole]

Well, most US buys (place) events are ridiculous- in general, countries sold land to the US that they weren't interested in, except when they were forced. For example, Louisiana became worthless to Napoleon's plans after he lost Haiti, and the fur trade in Alaska was bascially dead when the Tsar sold it (though he didn't know about the gold and the oil). Also, all of the territories were sparsely populated. Now, Taiwan on the other hand is a key Chinese possession, with a lot of Chinese people, and the Chinese were never eager to just give land to the foreign devils. Getting it from Japan is even less likely, as the Japanese took it in war at a time when their navy was already strong enough that they could put up a pretty good fight.

 

[WhatIsAUserName]

So then it would be possible and fairly easy; the USA and the Middle Kingdom go to war over something trivial, maybe the Open Door Policy goes out the window since nobody particularly benefited from it anyways, and America first earns some small, insignificant port city and end up smuggling something like opium. China goes to war, USA wins in days, and they force China to sell Taiwan for pennies on the acre.

Of course, the time that would be necessary is difficult, since I'm not sure we can manage something like that until the Spanish-American War. Before that, I'm not sure the USA can manage it.

 

[Wendell]

Well, most US buys (place) events are ridiculous- in general, countries sold land to the US that they weren't interested in, except when they were forced. For example, Louisiana became worthless to Napoleon's plans after he lost Haiti, and the fur trade in Alaska was bascially dead when the Tsar sold it (though he didn't know about the gold and the oil). Also, all of the territories were sparsely populated. Now, Taiwan on the other hand is a key Chinese possession, with a lot of Chinese people, and the Chinese were never eager to just give land to the foreign devils. Getting it from Japan is even less likely, as the Japanese took it in war at a time when their navy was already strong enough that they could put up a pretty good fight.

While I generally agree, there were not as many Chinese in Taiwan in 1850 as there were in 1950, particularly in terms of percentage of the population.

 

[Max Sinister]

IIRC the czar knew about the gold - but he didn't want to have the trouble with anarchic situations as happened during the Californian gold rush.

 

[Agrippa]

To through some more fuel on this fire, we also have the American purchase of the Danish West Indies/US Virgin Islands in 1917.

 

[David S Poepoe]

To through some more fuel on this fire, we also have the American purchase of the Danish West Indies/US Virgin Islands in 1917.

The Americans had pretty much set themselves up at the only likely purchasers, under the terms of the Monroe Doctrine. It is also unlikely that any Latin American countries could have purchased them.

 

[Faeelin]

And all of America's land purchases were forced. Not just Mexico/Phillipines.
Louisianna- Sell it to friendly neutral US and earn a lot of money to fund your armies or have Britain just take it.

Alaska- Sell the vast useless land (of which Russia had plenty) to the neutral US for a rip off sum or have Britain just take it.

What wars did Britain and Russia fight after Crimea? It's not like the Brits had men on the border waiting to rush over.

By forced in these two cases you evidently mean that nations decided they preferred money over useless colonies.

Well sure, I guess.

 

[Tyr]

What wars did Britain and Russia fight after Crimea? It's not like the Brits had men on the border waiting to rush over.

Up until the 20th century where via mutual friendship with France we sort of stopped hating each others guts war between Britain and Russia was a ever-present threat. It was like with the US and USSR in the 20th century; it could have happened at any minute.

And there would be nothing Russia could do if Britain decided to take Alaska- if there's one thing Britain was good at it was the navy, if there is one thing Russia wasn't good at it was...democracy . And second the navy.
The Alaskans would probally surrender without a fight.

By forced in these two cases you evidently mean that nations decided they preferred money over useless colonies.

Well sure, I guess.

No, they preferred money over nothing.

 

[Wendell]

To through some more fuel on this fire, we also have the American purchase of the Danish West Indies/US Virgin Islands in 1917.

And the Americans had been seeking this islands periodically over several decades prior.

 

[Agrippa]

The Americans had pretty much set themselves up at the only likely purchasers, under the terms of the Monroe Doctrine. It is also unlikely that any Latin American countries could have purchased them.

From what I've heard, the US pushed pretty hard to get them because of fears related to German submarine warfare. Is there any truth the claim I saw on Wiki that Denmark thought the US might actually go to war to get them?

 

[Nicole]

From what I've heard, the US pushed pretty hard to get them because of fears related to German submarine warfare. Is there any truth the claim I saw on Wiki that Denmark thought the US might actually go to war to get them?

That was my impression of it- the Danes sold the islands because they thought the US was going to take them in some other way if they didn't.