T-34s & KVs concentrated in 1941

As we know when T-34s and KV-1 and -2s appered they were delivered in dribs and drabs all over the place. That ment that practically every unit that got them had to develop their own logistics for them, training and so on. Lack of experence with maintenance also forced many to be abandoned.

But WI they were used to equip just a few divisions? Makes sense, oncentrate them in good units, remove old stuff from there and ahve them concentrate on mastering new tanks. The best scenario is of course concentrating jsut one type in one division but even mixing them together would work in 1941 (no brekthroughs and penetrations so differences in speed is not that important).

Effects? SU still takes heavy losses but the front might stop somewhat a bit eastwards. Of course seeing masses of such tanks would prompt Gemrans to speed up their upgrades/new tanks even more. More speed = more teething problems before they are deployed though
 
As I understand it most of the T-34s were located on the Southwestern front in the Ukraine. They caused pleanty of trouble in OTL plus the stiffness in the south caused delays with the push on Moscow. If there are more T-34 and KV-1 units there prehasp they force an eariler weakening of the Moscow push. Giving more room for the Russians.

Now would this speed along development of the Panther and Tiger. Probably not too much differnce than orignally. Maybe eariler deployment of the Panther, which might be worse. If the Panther is rushed to development faster than OTL, it will have even more problems than when it first deployed.
 
There was a Soviet tactician, Marshall Mikhail Tukhachevsky, who earlier advocated using tanks in concentrated numbers to acheive breakthroughs. His theory was successfully tested in 1936 at Sesena, Spain, by Soviet advisors to the Republican Peoples' Army. Unfortunately, the Marshall was arrested in the following year, compelled under brutal torture to confess to treason and spying and shot after a quick trial, a victim of Stalin's paranoia. After this, no Soviet commander dared suggest using tanks en masse as Tukhachevsky had proposed, for fear of sharing his fate. They went back to spreading their tanks out thinly, even though they knew better.
Tragically, many brilliant military minds were lost in Stalin's purges. Who knows what the effect might have been, had they been spared? The Germans knew well what they were doing, when they planted evidence to feed Stalin's suspicion, and cause him to believe his generals were planning to remove him in a putsch.
This is all a great shame. For even though they could have been used more effectively at times, the Soviets' revolutionary T-34 and JS-II were still unquestionably the best tanks to see service with any army in World War Two. And Red Army tankmen showed what was almost superhuman courage and endurance, besides.
 
There was a Soviet tactician, Marshall Andrei Tukhachevsky, who believed in using tanks in concentrated numbers to acheive breakthroughs. His theory was successfully tested in 1936 at Sesena, Spain, by Soviet advisors to the Republican Peoples' Army. Unfortunately, the Marshall was arrested in the following year, compelled under brutal torture to confess to treason and spying and shot after a quick trial, a victim of Stalin's paranoia. After this, no Soviet commander dared suggest using tanks en masse as Tukhachevsky had proposed, for fear of sharing his fate. They went back to spreading their tanks out thinly, even though they knew better.
Tragically, many brilliant military minds were lost in Stalin's purges. Who knows what the effect might have been, had they been spared? The Germans knew well what they were doing, when they planted evidence to feed Stalin's suspicion, and cause him to believe his generals were planning to remove him in a putsch.
This is all a great shame. For even though they could have been used more effectively at times, the Soviets' revolutionary T-34 and JS-II were still unquestionably the best tanks to see service with any army in World War Two. And Red Army tankmen showed what was almost superhuman courage and endurance, besides.


I'm not talking about deep penetration doctrine, I'm talking about concentrating available T-34s and KV-1s into single force rather then dispersing them across entire army. Rather then ahve divisions with many old tanks and handfull of new ones rather several of them shed their old ones compeltly and take in just new ones (plus support vehicles but that's another story)
 

Although 1st Panzer Army took a severe battering in the battles around Dubno, it survived the battle still capable of operation. The Soviets did not. The last substantial Soviet tank forces in the South had been used up clearing the way for the German drive deep into the industrial and agricultural heartland of the Ukraine.

Not to mention it was 5 (five) Soviet corps used, not one and considering 1 PzGr was only one used in the south and Gemrans reached Rostov it was hardly "rendered useless"
 
aktarian

It might have helped, where the force was concentrated and as you have said would have eased logistics. However I see a few potential problems as well.
a) This therefore means that there are no T-34s and KV-1s elsewhere, so those areas are weaker.

b) If the new tanks are concentrated, probably with what are considered elite units they will be very effective. However this could mean that Stalin gets greedy/overconfident and orders them to do too much. Coupled with the idea that the basic idea behind German tactics was to find and exploit weak points and that elsewhere the Soviet line is weaker, you could see the force encircled, run out of supply and largely destroyed. This would not only be bad in itself, although it would probably make a nasty mess of the German forces fighting it, but it would mean much less feedback on the new weapons.

c) If your concentrating the new tanks in one area other forces don't get any experience in using them. This could reduce their effect later, possibly at a crucial point. Also if b) has occurred you could find you have lost the bulk of the people with experience of operating them in one go.

All the above are not insurmountable problems, especially if they delay the Germans significantly and possibly badly maul the German army group they face. However it could be very nasty for the SU if they don't cause a hell of a lot of damage. Plus as said such a force would really set alarm bells ringing in the German army.

Steve
 
Yes, as stevep says, if the caliber of these tanks sinks in at Berlin in summer of 1941, causing a major expansion of German tank development and production, the result is going to be far worse for the Allies than moving the existing T-34s and KVs will help them.
 
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