Wait a second, so is Athalráthr Athalbrandsson and Buffalo like a non-Vinland aligned Nordic kingdom or something?
Swords of the Iroquois
- Thread starter smjb
- Start date
Yayyy sounds like both major Native American alliances will soon have Nordic tech/weapons support.
You say that they trade iron tools to the natives in exchange for gold. But the natives wouldn't have any gold, and in Greenland they actually were barely there in the first place if they had migrated there yet.
Normally I'd have a chapter up by, er, last Friday, but real life has been getting in the way a lot lately. I still haven't finished that freaking Beaver War research. I'm sorry I don't have the chapter ready for you, but to prove I haven't forgotten y'all, here's a map:
This is a speculative map of what the future of Swords of the Iroquois might--or might not--look like. I suppose a lot depends on how well the anti-Haudenosaunee alliance fairs in the upcoming war. I haven't given much thought to the western borders of the Ojibwe and Cahokia, so the former's is conveniently off-screen and the latter's more-or-less fallows the same pattern of the US states. This is because the Cahokians will want a buffer between their capital city and the plains barbarians (the introduction of horses pretty much short-circuited the Sioux attempt to pick up agriculture).
This is eastern North America right before the smallpox plague hits. (~1260) The Laurentians are the most Christianized folk in North America, followed distantly by the Haudenosaunee, followed distantly by the Wendat. There's a few Christians in Ojibwe country, and in Cahokia they are outright persecuted.
I also conveniently cut the map short in the north before I ended up having to decide just how far the Laurentines have advanced in that direction. After all, they're hungry for wealth in all it's forms, but I'm thinking the Norse in Greenland is going to have a problem with an expansionist empire heading their way, Christian or no. If so, pragmatism might drive them to providing arms to the native tribes of Labrador and Newfoundland.
Hmm. I wonder how that'll fair. Will Greenland end up being annexed by the Laurentines? if the L. get too powerful, Swords of the Iroquois may well become an Artifact Title even if the Haudenosaunee win this war. Only time will tell, however. Only time will tell if any of this comes to pass, in fact.
This is a speculative map of what the future of Swords of the Iroquois might--or might not--look like. I suppose a lot depends on how well the anti-Haudenosaunee alliance fairs in the upcoming war. I haven't given much thought to the western borders of the Ojibwe and Cahokia, so the former's is conveniently off-screen and the latter's more-or-less fallows the same pattern of the US states. This is because the Cahokians will want a buffer between their capital city and the plains barbarians (the introduction of horses pretty much short-circuited the Sioux attempt to pick up agriculture).
This is eastern North America right before the smallpox plague hits. (~1260) The Laurentians are the most Christianized folk in North America, followed distantly by the Haudenosaunee, followed distantly by the Wendat. There's a few Christians in Ojibwe country, and in Cahokia they are outright persecuted.
I also conveniently cut the map short in the north before I ended up having to decide just how far the Laurentines have advanced in that direction. After all, they're hungry for wealth in all it's forms, but I'm thinking the Norse in Greenland is going to have a problem with an expansionist empire heading their way, Christian or no. If so, pragmatism might drive them to providing arms to the native tribes of Labrador and Newfoundland.
Hmm. I wonder how that'll fair. Will Greenland end up being annexed by the Laurentines? if the L. get too powerful, Swords of the Iroquois may well become an Artifact Title even if the Haudenosaunee win this war. Only time will tell, however. Only time will tell if any of this comes to pass, in fact.
Sweet.
I think I'm going to write an interlude instead of going right into the war. There's just something that's been kicking around my head and wants out.
Also, I know no one asked, but no, Athalráthr cannot actually do magic. This is the wrong forum for that, after all. However, I might end up making this a book one day, and if so it'll be interesting I think to have a little bit of Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane in the mix.
I think I'm going to write an interlude instead of going right into the war. There's just something that's been kicking around my head and wants out.
Also, I know no one asked, but no, Athalráthr cannot actually do magic. This is the wrong forum for that, after all. However, I might end up making this a book one day, and if so it'll be interesting I think to have a little bit of Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane in the mix.
Whoa. The Cahokia had that much territory? Weren't they the mound builders who disappeared eventually?
No. It's confusing because there is a site with mounds called Cahokia, but the site was named after a tribe of Illinois Indians who had nothing to do with the mounds. The Mound Builders (or Mississippian culture) went extinct in the 1400s, and by the time any reliable historical record starts up, the area south of the Great Lakes was inhabited by Illinois people, who spoke an Algonquian language related to the Ojibway and the people up the North Atlantic coast. Modern descendents of the Illinois people include the Miami tribe and the Peoria Tribe (http://www.miamination.com/) and the Peoria tribe (http://www.peoriatribe.com/). Other tribes (now extinct) were the Illinois themselves (who called themselves Inoka), the Wea, the Kaskaskia, the Tamaroa, and the Moingwena (who may be fictitious, since the name means "shit-face").
So I'm interested in how the Cahokia ended up powerful enough to give their tribal name to the whole nation-state (if it is a nation-state).
Are the Laurentians sort of like super-Metis? They seem to be a hybridized culture.
I've really been enjoying this TL so far. It's very well-written, and there are all sorts of intriguing changes being introduced. Please do keep it up!
Huh, interesting story so far and looking forward to more. I noted that you were mentioning gold there a while back and felt that I could point out that the Ovens in Lunenberg, Nova Scotia has gold right there in the beach and there's plenty of placer deposits around the Halifax area (which would also be attractive due how easily defensible it was). Then, up around the Bay of Fundy and Minas Basin, you have semi-precious gem deposits like amethyst and the like. There's also plenty of things like silver and native copper as well.
Interesting.
Regarding the name given to the 'new land', even if recently Christianized the Norsemen are still impregnated with their traditional culture, which lacked any 'land in the West across the ocean'. But they had met Western Celts (from the Orkney to Ireland) and *these* had such tradition:Avalon / Hy Brazil / Saint Brendan Island. Obviously the Norsemen would not give a Celtic name to the newly (re)discovered land but, aware of the rumors about an 'island with apples' could call it 'land of apples' in their own tongue. Then in France or Italy a cartographer proud of his classical culture would, because of the reference to apples, call the new land 'Hesperides'.
Regarding the name given to the 'new land', even if recently Christianized the Norsemen are still impregnated with their traditional culture, which lacked any 'land in the West across the ocean'. But they had met Western Celts (from the Orkney to Ireland) and *these* had such tradition:Avalon / Hy Brazil / Saint Brendan Island. Obviously the Norsemen would not give a Celtic name to the newly (re)discovered land but, aware of the rumors about an 'island with apples' could call it 'land of apples' in their own tongue. Then in France or Italy a cartographer proud of his classical culture would, because of the reference to apples, call the new land 'Hesperides'.
I just discovered this TL. Don't know how I missed it before. I'm definitely enjoying it, and it looks like you've come up with many of the same ideas that I've been looking at playing with my my Fiontir TL.... Although mine's been a little too slow-going, not much has actually happened in North America yet....
Anyways, I have a number of comments to share if you're interested. The first is that I'm glad you've decided to incoporate the Laurentians (I'm not sure how "correct" that name is because the name I've always heard is "St. Lawrence Iroquoians"), but I'm sure "Laurentians" could also be used. From my own research it seems like they'd be the first settled, agricultural culture than anyone penetrating North America from the Northeast would encounter, and definitely are well-suited to take advantage of their location in Hochelaga (aka Montreal).
To be honest it bugs me a little that you're calling their settlement Montreal when we actually know that the native settlement at the site of OTL Montreal was called Hochelaga, but i know you have reasons for wanting to use "English" names.... But maybe that's also because one of my favourite aspects of AH is trying to find alternate place names....
Anyways, I have more comments if you're still working on this, but I don't want to write too much in case you've given this up....
Anyways, I have a number of comments to share if you're interested. The first is that I'm glad you've decided to incoporate the Laurentians (I'm not sure how "correct" that name is because the name I've always heard is "St. Lawrence Iroquoians"), but I'm sure "Laurentians" could also be used. From my own research it seems like they'd be the first settled, agricultural culture than anyone penetrating North America from the Northeast would encounter, and definitely are well-suited to take advantage of their location in Hochelaga (aka Montreal).
To be honest it bugs me a little that you're calling their settlement Montreal when we actually know that the native settlement at the site of OTL Montreal was called Hochelaga, but i know you have reasons for wanting to use "English" names.... But maybe that's also because one of my favourite aspects of AH is trying to find alternate place names....
Anyways, I have more comments if you're still working on this, but I don't want to write too much in case you've given this up....