Swordfish Attack on Bismarck Sinks it

Ranger was the first keel-up carrier built by the US, and she was built with treaty restrictions in mind. You only get so much mileage out of that. All that in mind, she wasn't so horrible as all that.
This was meant to refer to the fact that Ranger was completed without any torpedo handling capability...
 
This was meant to refer to the fact that Ranger was completed without any torpedo handling capability...
That's why you have fighters.

Yes, sometimes the bombers get through, but did any USN carrier get home after being attacked and hit by torpedo bombers? Certainly, as USS Yorktown demonstrated at Coral Sea you can survive IIRC, every USN carrier that got struck by IJN torpedo bombers was sufficient damaged that it was subsequently sunk. Certainly the other USN carriers took a lot of additional hits before sinking, but the moral is, once that first torpedo gets through, you're done.
 
Ranger served the USN well IMO. Yes she was no Yorktown but she carried a large airgroup for her size.

My only regret is that she, Wasp and Essex (ordered same time as Hornet but delivered a year or more after Hornet) was not ordered as additional Yorktown's!

But that's another TL
 

SsgtC

Banned
That's why you have fighters.

Yes, sometimes the bombers get through, but did any USN carrier get home after being attacked and hit by torpedo bombers? Certainly, as USS Yorktown demonstrated at Coral Sea you can survive IIRC, every USN carrier that got struck by IJN torpedo bombers was sufficient damaged that it was subsequently sunk. Certainly the other USN carriers took a lot of additional hits before sinking, but the moral is, once that first torpedo gets through, you're done.

Not exactly true. Yorktown made it all the way back to Pearl, was given a VERY hasty refit, and immediately sent back into battle at Midway. Where she was hit again. And survived. She was only lost when a submarine got inside her screen and finished her off
 
Not exactly true. Yorktown made it all the way back to Pearl, was given a VERY hasty refit, and immediately sent back into battle at Midway.
Yorktown was not struck by a torpedo at Coral Sea. Her damage was caused by dive bombers. AFAIK, no USN carrier was struck by a torpedo and lived to fight again, either succumbing to further damage or being scuttled to avoid capture. Once that first torpedo hits home, it's game over.
 
Yorktown was not struck by a torpedo at Coral Sea. Her damage was caused by dive bombers. AFAIK, no USN carrier was struck by a torpedo and lived to fight again, either succumbing to further damage or being scuttled to avoid capture. Once that first torpedo hits home, it's game over.

I'm not taking sides here but Saratoga was torpedoed on the 11th jan 1942 by i6 400+ miles away from Pearl and she lived to become a target at Operation Crossroads in 1946

I think the issue is a torpedoed ship hundreds of miles from a Home port in an area of the ocean under enemy domination is unlikely to make it home and the captain must make a decision on saving his crew or risking further loss of life (from his own and other vessels) in a possibly forlorn attempt to save the vessel.

I do wonder if Allied Carrier commanders decisions to abandon an aircraft carrier were not coloured by the loss with so many personnel killed of both HMS Courageous and HMS Glorious early in the war - it certainly impacted the captain of HMS Ark Royal to prematurely abandon his vessel.
 

Iron Sun

Banned
Yorktown was not struck by a torpedo at Coral Sea. Her damage was caused by dive bombers. AFAIK, no USN carrier was struck by a torpedo and lived to fight again, either succumbing to further damage or being scuttled to avoid capture. Once that first torpedo hits home, it's game over.
USS Saratoga would like to have a word with you.
 
That's why you have fighters.

Yes, sometimes the bombers get through, but did any USN carrier get home after being attacked and hit by torpedo bombers? Certainly, as USS Yorktown demonstrated at Coral Sea you can survive IIRC, every USN carrier that got struck by IJN torpedo bombers was sufficient damaged that it was subsequently sunk. Certainly the other USN carriers took a lot of additional hits before sinking, but the moral is, once that first torpedo gets through, you're done.

Again, not what I meant...the Ranger could NOT launch a torpedo strike. No gotta da torps on board...they couldn't replicate the feat of sinking the Bismarck with our own state-of-the-art (snicker) TBD's. As far as defending such an attack, Ranger wasn't a whole lot worse off than Wasp, but offensively, it was a cripple, not even suitable for the training carrier role. Fine for the 1942 and later sort of limited naval warfare going on in the Atlantic...just don't get too close to enemy land based air assets...
 
I do wonder if Allied Carrier commanders decisions to abandon an aircraft carrier were not coloured by the loss with so many personnel killed of both HMS Courageous and HMS Glorious early in the war - it certainly impacted the captain of HMS Ark Royal to prematurely abandon his vessel.
It was also potentially coloured (in the case of the US) by the fact that they were building carriers faster than they could find the crews to man them at the time. Abandon ship and a month or two later you've got a nice shiny new carrier instead - tempting, isn't it?
 
Again, not what I meant...the Ranger could NOT launch a torpedo strike. No gotta da torps on board...they couldn't replicate the feat of sinking the Bismarck with our own state-of-the-art (snicker) TBD's. As far as defending such an attack, Ranger wasn't a whole lot worse off than Wasp, but offensively, it was a cripple, not even suitable for the training carrier role. Fine for the 1942 and later sort of limited naval warfare going on in the Atlantic...just don't get too close to enemy land based air assets...

Okay, makes sense as far as that goes. It's a peeve of mine, when people denigrate an early model of something (Car, airplane, ship) because it isn't as good as later models.

Per torpedo bombers, is there a particular issue with the Avenger? I thought that in general, they acquitted themselves quite well. Early war, only the Japanese really had a good torpedo bomber, the Devastator and the Swordfish being obsolete. Not to say that the Swordfish did not do well, but I wouldn't give much for their performance if swapped for the Devastators at Midway.
 
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