Swedish empire taking another turn?

[Grand Prince Paul II.]

Though I wouldnt give Bavaria much of a chance - that in the end all Wittelsbach lines came together pretty much was a historic coincidence, too. And it got expanded enomously in the mediation - at the time of the 30 Years Wars it was small, and at the time of the reformation even small and divided... Saxony, though, one of the richest states due to the ores in the, err, Ore Mountains, yeah, that could have become so much more. Unfortunately, they suffered a string of really bad rulers...

I wouldn't underestimate the non-mentioned Hanover and Denmark-Norway.

Hm, if Habsburg does lose Bohemia, then the Proetstants have the numerical superiority among the Pricne-Electros - indeed, the only catholic Prince-Electors would be the three Prince-Electorly Archbishops!

Only if the bavarian ruler Maximilian didn't get an elector title and the later electors of the Palatinate did remain catholic.

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

I wouldn't underestimate the non-mentioned Hanover

Hanover was nothing, just another state in northern Germany that had the great fortune to be converted into an electorate in the late 17th century (to preserve the religious balance in the electoral college) and then the even greater fortune to have its ruler inherit the British crown. There were many other German states with a better shot at greatness.

and Denmark-Norway.

We're talking about German states here.

 

[Matthais Corvinus]

Hm, I see about Silesia. How... odd. Especially as Silesia belongs to the Bohemian Crown, which is, err, what started the whole war in the first place.

Yes, and everyone was so sure it would the Spanish and Dutch.

And yes, of course the childs religion will matter. I was just saying gthat lutheran-calvinist marriaged happened, though yes, it might be special here. Unfortunately, it appears the Great Elector even took his creed very seriously, and Gustav Adolf just fought years in Germany for Lutheranism and hence wont like his grandson to be Lutheran, either. So, yes that could become problematic. OTOH, such marriage plans existed IOTL, so obviously they must've thought about that IOTL.

I think that this particular issue could be massaged, though its exact handling would be interesting. What religion do you think the child would be? I personally think Frederick William would convert if it meant the Swedish crown. I don't know if he and Christina would get along at all on the religious front though, since FW would be a closet Calvinist and Christina would be a closet Catholic.

Oh, and btw, the enemy of your enemy is sometimes your friend even in matters of religion. During the Reformation, Hesse and South Germany all theologcially rather tended to Zwingli, but kept with Luthers creed for reasons of political-theological unity...

It helped that the Catholics' view of it was a heretic was a heretic was a heretic, no matter what they called their particular brand of heresy they rejected the Church and thus were all equally damned.

Uh, why? Christina is the heir, so she has to marry somebody -a t least, that would be the conventional thinking at the time.

What I was pointing out is that the match between Frederick William and Christina would be much easier to guarentee if Sweden remained involved in German affairs, which could only happen if Gustav becomes King. I guess I see the marriage as an important step in Gustav's mind, but once he dies the calculus changes in a way that would exclude the marriage with FW.

Was Wallenstein really? I always thought that were only accusations his enemies engineered. I cant see the guy paying a large patr of the Impeiral Army out of his own pockets just so switching sides, anyways.

I think he was attempting to make a peace with Gustav, and then use his unique leverage with the Emperor (explained below) to make sure it is approved.

He doesn't need to switch sides to make peace. He was paying for the whole army, including housing it on his lands for winter quarters, so all he needs to do is stop paying and presto, no money means no mercenaries means no army. And the ever-victorious King Gustavus Adolphus with a veteran, victorious army at his back and at your gates. If you were Emperor Ferdinand you might pay attention.

Hm, if Habsburg does lose Bohemia, then the Proetstants have the numerical superiority among the Pricne-Electros - indeed, the only catholic Prince-Electors would be the three Prince-Electorly Archbishops! Though I think if Havbsburg is not utterly destroyed than any peace will most likely give an equal amount of Prince-Elector sto both sides - most likely Austria proper will be raised to become a Prince-Electorate. Which ensures a virtual deadlock, of course, as tempers wont flare down enough within one generation to vote outside confessional borders... especialyl as then still three of the four catholic Prince-Electors are Archbishops...

If the Hapsburg lose Bohemia, then who is it too? Because under the scenario provided the only viable candidate (and I use viable loosely because I don't think this could happen) is King Gustavus. Maybe if Gustavus crushes/gets Wallenstein to disband the Imperial army, he could install Charles I Louis, the son of the now late Frederick V (the "Winter King") as the new Bohemian king. Or maybe there is some other candidate that would be more suitable. Anyway, if Bohemia returns to protestantism, then there are such massive butterflies that the Sweden-Brandenburg union would be small fries compare to it.

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Yes, and everyone was so sure it would the Spanish and Dutch.

What are you talking about? I think you've somehow got Silesia mixed up with the Netherlands.

 

[Matthais Corvinus]

What are you talking about? I think you've somehow got Silesia mixed up with the Netherlands.

I was talking about the start of the 30 Years' War. The beginning was the Bohemian Revolt, electing Frederick V as the Bohemian King. However, the much more likely to start the conflict was the about to run out truce between the United Netherlands and the Spanish throne. No-one saw Bohemia coming.