Swedish Cape Colony.

After the Thirty Years' War could Sweden have created a colony in the Cape before the Dutch?
If not, what would it take before Sweden started to colonize the Cape?
If yes, how would the colonisation of the Cape take place with the Swedes? Could they stay as long as the Dutch/Afrikaans? What relations would be established with the locals? Could the colony be a springboard for a more powerful Swedish colonial empire?
 
Sweden was unable to keep even small Caribbean islands so I can't see that it could keep Cape colony if even gets that. Probably Sweden would lost that pretty soon probably before 1800.
 
Sweden was unable to keep even small Caribbean islands so I can't see that it could keep Cape colony if even gets that. Probably Sweden would lost that pretty soon probably before 1800.
In your opinion what is the best thing Sweden could do if it is very lucky along the 18th century?
 
St. Barts doesn't really compare here - the devastation by hurricaine of Gustavia would have cost a fortune to repair, and Sweden had to ask itself why it was spending all that money on a single island?

A colonial enterprise is a different matter. Denmark was perfectly able to establish these in West Africa and in SE India. Economic viability is the key.
 
Basically what you need is a chartered company, akin to this for Denmark

Now there was a Swedish one

The Cape was a Dutch East India Company colony

Now if you look at the dates, the SEIC didn't come into being til the 1730s whereas the Dutch established the Cape as a re-supply base enroute to the Indies in the 1650s. However, that does fall within the period outlined by your challenge

The challenge therefore is to get a Swedish East Indies Company in the 1640s and to get the trade that they got in the 18th century some 8 or so decade earlier, making the establishment of a Swedish resupply base at the Cape a good idea
 
Basically what you need is a chartered company, akin to this for Denmark

Now there was a Swedish one

The Cape was a Dutch East India Company colony

Now if you look at the dates, the SEIC didn't come into being til the 1730s whereas the Dutch established the Cape as a re-supply base enroute to the Indies in the 1650s. However, that does fall within the period outlined by your challenge

The challenge therefore is to get a Swedish East Indies Company in the 1640s and to get the trade that they got in the 18th century some 8 or so decade earlier, making the establishment of a Swedish resupply base at the Cape a good idea
Do you have any idea how Sweden could create its company after the Thirty Years' War?
Now let's imagine that the company is created, how would Sweden populate its Cape Colony? Or could it establish trading posts in Asia? More towards the present or Indonesia or more on the Indian sub-continent itself? Could they discover Australia?
What would be the consequence on the relations with the other powers? I think that Denmark and the United Provinces will be quite angry at the arrival of another power. France could make Sweden an ally in the coming naval wars.
 
Now if you look at the dates, the SEIC didn't come into being til the 1730s whereas the Dutch established the Cape as a re-supply base enroute to the Indies in the 1650s. However, that does fall within the period outlined by your challenge

The challenge therefore is to get a Swedish East Indies Company in the 1640s and to get the trade that they got in the 18th century some 8 or so decade earlier, making the establishment of a Swedish resupply base at the Cape a good idea

Um, Sweden established an Africa Company in 1649
already. Unfortunately it was more a crypto-Dutch enterprise than Swedish and when the last governor "sold" their outposts to the Dutch and skipped the country with the money, company went bust in the 1660s
 
Um, Sweden established an Africa Company in 1649 already. Unfortunately it was more a crypto-Dutch enterprise than Swedish and when the last governor "sold" their outposts to the Dutch and skipped the country with the money, company went bust in the 1660s
But the Cape was only of any importance if you were trading with India/the East Indies - the Dutch established it as a supply base.

I suppose in theory you could extend the remit of the Africa Company to anywhere in Africa, but while there are more valuable resources to be gained by trading with West Africa it would be quite a stretch to decide to go right down to the bottom-most tip
 
But the Cape was only of any importance if you were trading with India/the East Indies - the Dutch established it as a supply base.

I suppose in theory you could extend the remit of the Africa Company to anywhere in Africa, but while there are more valuable resources to be gained by trading with West Africa it would be quite a stretch to decide to go right down to the bottom-most tip
Storms blow ships off course. And a few enterprising Swedish merchants COULD decide to trade with peoples (the Kongo kingdom, for instance)further south. Wind up in the Cape that way
 
Storms blow ships off course. And a few enterprising Swedish merchants COULD decide to trade with peoples (the Kongo kingdom, for instance)further south. Wind up in the Cape that way
That's about 4500 km off course with the prevailing winds blowing the opposite directing.
 
I do not see why Sweden couldn't project itself into the larger colonial/East Indies Company game post 1648. Within 10 years in 1658 Sweden was basically at its zenith in terms of territory. What you need is just better security in these holdings, mainly Trondelag and/or Bremen, giving the Swedish realm a window to the west/east by sea without the interference of the Danish or Norwegians.

It would also help if Sweden can have a king that would do for the navy/merchant marine what Gustavus Adolphus did for the army. Or just promote a German/Wallon/Dutch lead enterprise that acts as the Swedish royal charter for an East Indies Company. Although this is basically what happened there needs to be more focus for it to succeed, there needs to be fast and lucrative revenue which would see Sweden expand this enterprise with state facilities, which eventually might lead to a Swedish cape colony.

A slice in the spice trade might mean Sweden can afford more troops on the Eastern front against the Russians and Poles, or seeing that the future lies west, an increased attempt to get Norway into the realm.
 
Honestly nothing would stop the Swedes from making a similar company to the Danish East Indies Company, it wasn’t very successful but it lasted for more than 200 years. It would likely be created after 1648 as the Swedes could use the German loot to invest in this company. Then after 1660 they could colonize the Cape, this would pretty much mean the next time we could see a potential takeover of the Cape would be the Great Northern War, but it gives them 40+ years to build up the colony. If it survives the Great Northern War the next potential conquest would be the 7 YW, after which the next potential conquest would be the Napoleonic Wars, if it survived those it would likely stay Swedish until it became independen.
 
The issue was that the 30 year war had bankrupt Sweden and its currency was very weak. Plus it’s population base was also very small. The Dutch actually relied on Norwegian sailors for a large part of its navy crew.

added to this that Sweden was cut off from rest of Europe for winter.

what you would need is a pod where Sweden gets Norway in early 1600 now it has ice free ports year round larger population base and could be rich enough to dream of colonial empire.

colonial empire means you need knowledge of sea routes. The Dutch stole Portuguese maps, countries did not share their data and you had to establish your own maps or steal them.

therefore you could have Dutch revolt against the Spanish not be as successful, Sweden gain Norway from Denmark and start exploring in the early 17th century and establish colonies in India / Asia and establish a resupply base in cape.
 
Charles the Twelfth wins a few battles against Russia, enough to get some respect, but not like the Russians absolutely have to beat him. Then Charles meets a cutie from Holland's Cape Colony. He makes a lasting peace with Peter the Great, conquers the colony for her, and stays, encouraging both Dutch and Swedish settlers. Sweden, like Europe after Napoleon, says 'oof' and lets him go. He makes babies, farms, and fortifications with manic enthusiasm, to die at 80 with many sons in a really strong fortified city fort with a tough army backing him up.
 
I think the climate might be a problem if they're going for a settler colony. The Mediterranean climate of the Cape is wholly different from the cold, mostly forested land of Sweden and Finland, and there's already a lot of land available for settlement in Sweden and Finland. The land available at home is a much closer journey and clearing/farming the land a similar venture to what the peasants would already be used to. There's a lot of adaptation needed to successfully farm at the Cape, even if it's much better land for farming than interior Sweden/Finland.
 
Charles the Twelfth wins a few battles against Russia, enough to get some respect, but not like the Russians absolutely have to beat him. Then Charles meets a cutie from Holland's Cape Colony. He makes a lasting peace with Peter the Great, conquers the colony for her, and stays, encouraging both Dutch and Swedish settlers. Sweden, like Europe after Napoleon, says 'oof' and lets him go. He makes babies, farms, and fortifications with manic enthusiasm, to die at 80 with many sons in a really strong fortified city fort with a tough army backing him up.
Carl XII doesn't even need the cutie involved. There was a group of pirates who offered him/Sweden overlordship of Madagascar OTL. Carl was interested but there was someone called Petya making problems in Swedish territory, so he couldn't give it the attention that he WANTED to, apparently.
 
I think the climate might be a problem if they're going for a settler colony. The Mediterranean climate of the Cape is wholly different from the cold, mostly forested land of Sweden and Finland, and there's already a lot of land available for settlement in Sweden and Finland. The land available at home is a much closer journey and clearing/farming the land a similar venture to what the peasants would already be used to. There's a lot of adaptation needed to successfully farm at the Cape, even if it's much better land for farming than interior Sweden/Finland.
The climate difference between Southern Sweden and Netherlands isn’t significant. The Swedes have wheat, wheat can grow in the Cape, the Swedes have cattle, goats and sheep, which are all able to graze in the Cape. Also the main purpose of the Cape colony will be as a port for Swedish ships on the way to Asia and to grow a few crops which can’t be grown in Sweden. The settlers will likely mostly be a mixed of prisoners, refugees and German settlers.
 
The climate difference between Southern Sweden and Netherlands isn’t significant. The Swedes have wheat, wheat can grow in the Cape, the Swedes have cattle, goats and sheep, which are all able to graze in the Cape. Also the main purpose of the Cape colony will be as a port for Swedish ships on the way to Asia and to grow a few crops which can’t be grown in Sweden. The settlers will likely mostly be a mixed of prisoners, refugees and German settlers.
That's what I was about to say, if the Dutch could successfully colonize The Cape, so could the Swedes.
Now, a Swedish (or Danish) Canada would be something interesting. I might want to do a Nordic Canada TL someday.
 
Sweden becoming a great colonizer is not as ASB as you think. Sweden and England was roughly the same size in 1530
In population? Realy? That certainly surprises me. I always see Seweden as one of the smaller countries of Europe. Actualy I wanted to make a whole point that Sweden would be unable to compete with countries like Spain, France and England because it is significantly smaller than those countries. If Sweden isn't, that argument isn't correct.
 
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