There was talk in the British Government before the von Essen scandal that the Germans would want to pre-empt any sort of Russian attack on Sweden by occupying Sweden themselves and seizing the iron ore mines. Of course this was false but what if it did happen and the Germans attacked the Swedish in 1914 when the war started? What would be the consequences of Sweden in the entente in ww1?
Sweden.........joins the Entente? in ww1? What happens next?
- Thread starter Sarthak
- Start date
Not sure how strong army Sweden had at this time but if Sweden can hold some defense, Germany has big troubles with two fronts. Not sure how this would affect to Norway. Brits might try send troops thrught the country. But if Norway refuses, things might go bit difficult. Not sure if Britain wants invade Norway when it just recently declared war to Germany from same reason.
On 8 August 1914 Sweden and Norway jointly issued a declaration of neutrality where both countries pledged to guarantee the others neutrality.
That's basically a pledge to defend each other if attacked. If Sweden is attacked Norway is on its side and vice versa.
Norway traded quiet a bit with Germany in the opening phase of the war. The loss of that trade could hurt the Germans.
Other than that the British will probably be celebrating any naval losses suffered by the Germans attacking Sweden and Norway. I could see both of those countries potentially capable of laying defensive mine fields to protect their coast. I don't see a major lightning quick victory in an invasion. Without a quick victory I could see an invasion quickly withdrawn due to waste of troops.
Gallipoli might succeed here since the the German arms sent to the Ottomans OTL would probably be in Sweden here
Was von Essen's sortie a scandal contemporaneously? I just realized I don't know how the historiography of this incident came to be widely known.
By 1914 Sweden had a dozen coastal battleships, two cruisers, several dozen torpedo boats and small destroyers, and five submarines. Thats not enough to threaten the HSF directly, but will force the Germans to deploy significant naval forces to counter these ships and ensure their troop convoys can reach Sweden. These forces will in turn make the Germans more easily fought elsewhere and the British or Russian fleets may make an attempt to take on parts of the smaller German fleets in their area. It also opens an even larger front that the Germans have to fight in and provides a means for the British and Russians to link up.
With what troops is Germany attacking Sweden? They don't really have spare capacity until 1st Ypres ends in mid November.
Plus, Germany attacking Sweden implicitly means the Germans accept it will be a long war AND one in which Germany is going to be blockaded, meaning they expect the French to hold out for years instead of weeks, or the British to join in AND stay on even after France has fallen.
And if such a bleak assessment is official policy, would the Kaiser still write a blank cheque to Vienna?
Plus, Germany attacking Sweden implicitly means the Germans accept it will be a long war AND one in which Germany is going to be blockaded, meaning they expect the French to hold out for years instead of weeks, or the British to join in AND stay on even after France has fallen.
And if such a bleak assessment is official policy, would the Kaiser still write a blank cheque to Vienna?
I wouldn't be surprised to see II Battlesquadron (the predreadnoughts) to be withdrawn from the High Seas fleet early to serve as a centerpiece for Baltic naval forces.
The older predreadnoughts historically served in the Baltic a lot but probably wouldn't be enough with the Swedish navy as an additional threat. Historically a lot of older ships were withdrawn in 1915 and 1916 due to crew shortages. They may not be able to that in this case which could hurt the submarine service.
raharris1973
Gone Fishin'
Well suppose the Germans do this invasion of Sweden (when would they do it, autumn 1914, or spring 1915? dead of winter 1914-15 seems highly unlikely, and can they spare anything though before November 1914), and Norway DoWs the Germans. Well, then the Germans have really stepped in it diplomatically speaking. Obviously, it seems like this wouldn't happen without a tandem invasion or Denmark.
Midwestern opinion in the US won't be so isolationist, you'll have bar fights breakout in Milwaukee and Minneapolis between ethnic Germans on the one hand and ethnic Swedes, Danes, and Norwegians on the other.
But how extensive will be the territory the German's will be able to occupy in their initial campaign? Will they have a solid hold up to the Kiruna mines? Will they be able to break out to the Norwegian coast or at least take Oslo
Would the Germans be able to hold their peak territorial extent in Scandinavia for a full year or two or three after the peak of their initial invasion? Or will setbacks/distractions from other fronts, local resistance, and Anglo-Canadian-Russian reinforcements start rolling the Germans back in Scandinavia?
Could the campaign end up as a total bust for the Germans, with them thrown back into the sea from any lodgments in the Scandinavian peninsula or Danish islands? If so, is there much mutual destruction of fleets while this is sorted out, and possibly a viable British supply line via the Baltic to Russia afterwards?
Midwestern opinion in the US won't be so isolationist, you'll have bar fights breakout in Milwaukee and Minneapolis between ethnic Germans on the one hand and ethnic Swedes, Danes, and Norwegians on the other.
But how extensive will be the territory the German's will be able to occupy in their initial campaign? Will they have a solid hold up to the Kiruna mines? Will they be able to break out to the Norwegian coast or at least take Oslo
Would the Germans be able to hold their peak territorial extent in Scandinavia for a full year or two or three after the peak of their initial invasion? Or will setbacks/distractions from other fronts, local resistance, and Anglo-Canadian-Russian reinforcements start rolling the Germans back in Scandinavia?
Could the campaign end up as a total bust for the Germans, with them thrown back into the sea from any lodgments in the Scandinavian peninsula or Danish islands? If so, is there much mutual destruction of fleets while this is sorted out, and possibly a viable British supply line via the Baltic to Russia afterwards?