Sweden in ww1

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by cjc, Jun 12, 2019 at 3:16 PM.

  1. cjc Well-Known Member

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    So how would various neutral countrys react to von Essen attacking Sweden in the early parts of ww1?
    Would it keeps nations like Italy and Romania from hoping the allies, or keep the usa from joining in 1917?
     
  2. KingSweden24 Member

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    What would even be the cassus belle there?
     
  3. Inferus In dreams, truth.

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    @KingSweden24, on 9 August 1914, Essen led part of his fleet towards Gotland with the intent to contain the Swedish navy and deliver a note of his own making which would have violated Swedish neutrality and may have brought Sweden into the war. He was ordered back before his plan could be executed. If he doesn't receive those orders, or chooses to ignore them, things could get interesting.
     
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  4. KingSweden24 Member

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    Huh, interesting. A Central Powers Sweden could be interesting... especially if they wanted Finland back!
     
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  5. Inferus In dreams, truth.

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    Well, a puppet Finland. Them striking towards Petrograd will keep the Eastern Front exciting!
     
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  6. KingSweden24 Member

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    Finland was meant to be in Mitteleuropa, right? Seems easy to integrate Sweden into that bloc too and give them Aland.
     
  7. Inferus In dreams, truth.

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    Germany would LOVE Sweden in Mitteleuropa but here they are entering as a co-combatant, not an occupied puppet. Sweden likely, and smartly, fights a war solely against Russia that France and the UK would avoid at least in the short term due to the unprovoked nature of von Essen's assault (and Norway stays out of any attack that would threaten their recent independence). Sweden would support an independent Finland under their aegis and, if Russia doesn't push for an armistice (which Nicky wouldn't to prevent looking weak) would force the Swedes to coordinate with the Central Powers to bring an end to their conflict. The Russians being stretched that much further could see their front crack.

    There won't be a lightning strike for Petrograd. The Swedes weren't ready for war and the weather as well as logistics makes much of a 1914 offensive lackluster (though the fear of a Swedish advance and Finnish uprising will divert important resources). Could this weaken Russian forces aimed at Austria-Hungary or allow a deeper advance by German forces, even taking Warsaw? Maybe. If it gives the Austro-Hungarians a better position (anything would be better than OTL) the Russians will be hurting. Perhaps 1915 sees Germany and A-H focusing East to knock out the Russians with Sweden striking from the North. Supplies are out of the question by the Entente as Murmansk is threatened, though this MAY be enough to bring the UK and France in against Sweden who would be blockading an ally.

    Russia will fight on even if they lose Petrograd, pulling into the interior. I doubt the Swedes drive in any further holding Finland and perhaps Kola. After the losses, Russia is spent by 1916. It will be starving (Ukraine will be in German hands), unsupplied, and militarily broken allowing the Germans to orient West. Italy and Rumania won't join the Entente. After that...
     
  8. Lalli Well-Known Member

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    Sweden hardly wanted Finland back anymore. Aland yes but not whole Finland. It would be impossible anyway. Finns never would accept that. Nationalism was too high there already. Perhaps Swedes can put Bernaodtte king to Finnish throne but not more.

    Sweden in Central Powers would change war. Russians hardly yet begin deploy troops to Finland when Swedes are not able to make invasion very soon. So East Front would be still quiet same probaly to 1915 Autumn. Italy might not want join to either side and choices neutrality. Romania perhaps jumps to Central Powers but hardly earlier than in OTL to side of Entente. Entente would take some moral hit so USA would be quiet relucant join to the war so it remain neutral. Neutral Italy means one front lesser to Austria-Hungary. Central Powers have probably better chances win the war.

    And due Danish mine field and strong German navy Brits are not able invade Southern Sweden.
     
  9. KingSweden24 Member

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    Hmm.

    I’m getting some good ideas for my new TL here... :D
     
  10. Inferus In dreams, truth.

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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. KingSweden24 Member

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    Haha! Ah I love it.
     
  12. cjc Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the replies but I was more interested in how other neutral nations would take this frankly unprovoked attack on Sweden.
    But from the very little I have read on this Sweden even in 1918 had a lot of trouble equipping even half there army and I can't see the Swedish navy doing well in a surprise attack even if it's the Russian navy attacking them.
     
  13. Drizzt Well-Known Member

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    The timing of the matter would sorta "cancel out" the Rape of Belgium as British Propaganda called it. That opens quite a few butterflies by itself.
    Also the 13 IIRC divisions Sweden had might not be that well equipped, but then neither were the Russian ones and it's not like the Royal Navy can blockade the sea lanes between Germany and Sweden, so at the very least the Germans could spare captured equipment for them.
    Then there is the potential for the Royal Navy not quite having gotten the memo about blockading sea lanes close to the enemys home turf in the age of mines and torpedoes being a bad idea and they end up TRYING to blockade the sea lanes between Germany and Sweden, despite the inadvisability thereof.
     
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  14. The Gunslinger NQLA agent

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    I doubt the Swedes would make any moves before early 1915, that gives them six months or so to coordinate with the Germans over equipping the army and moving naval units around. I imagine Britain and France would immediately send out a diplomatic mission to and try to lure Sweden back to neutrality by demanding the Czar hand over von Essen's balls on a silver platter... but by then it may be too late. The bigger question will be how this looks with the neutrals. Italy may not be moved politically very much, but the Balkans might be swayed.

    Britain isn't entering the Baltic under any circumstances, doing that likely causes a Danish declaration of war on top of a Swedish one.
     
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  15. Kalga Yell's Shipyard

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    For it's size, the Swedish navy of the period was not that bad actually. The navy was popular among the country, and their navy is tailored to fight the type of war to be expected in the Baltic region, and their quality is top notch (for its size):

     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 9:30 PM
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  16. Kaze Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the Russian revolution will not be using the Aurora to start their revolution... though I suspect if Sweden entered the war it might smother Lenin's Russia before he even left Switzerland.
     
  17. cjc Well-Known Member

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    One thing I do what to point out is that Italy also don't declare war on Germany until nearly a year after it did austrea-hungary, but Germany had to support austrea befor then, to keep it in the war if nothing else and I feel, especially during the early parts of the war that Briton and France would have no other chose but to support Russia in this, gust to get Russia to put presser on Germany even if they would have preferred that this hant happened. Also I wonder if briton would try to invade Norway to cut of German iron supply in the winter like was trays in ww2.
     
  18. Lalli Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that Brits would try invade Norway. They know that it would look like very bad for their PR and great propaganda victory for Germany. And USA would try remain neutral even harder and perhaps begin wonder is Entente any better than Central Powers. And UK would look like hellish hypocrisy when it entered war due invasion of neutral nation and now it is itself invading neutral nations.
     
  19. cjc Well-Known Member

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    Very true, but the same strategic and economic considerations that lead to fighting in Norway in ww2 would be even more important whith Sweden as an active combatant.
     
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  20. Drizzt Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Arrogance and overestimating your capabilities weren't exclusively a German traits. The First Sea Lord giving that order and expecting the Norwegians to knuckle under isn't that far-fetched.
     
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