Sweden enters the Crimean War

chris N

Fortunately for the allies a lot of the fortification that the Russians had been building were far from complete when the war broke out. Also they were not built with having to face warships that used steam power not sail. This allowed the allies to capture the facilities with light loses.
The Swedish Army did see strong support in the Swedish speaking areas of Finland.
 

chris N

The question that was being asked now by the allies was how loyal would the Finnish soldiers be now that Sweden had joined the fight against the Russians. In the areas of Finland that had a large number of Swedish speaking residents the Royal Swedish army was warmly welcomed. There were even volunteers joining it or providing the allies with information. Still none of the allied commanders underestimated the ability of the Russians to fight back.
Below a detachment of Russian troops.

russian-uniform-crimean-war-time-thumb6542340.jpg
 

chris N

Sweden had now established a foothold in Finland thanks to its allies. The question was could British Sea power be a deciding factor in winning the war in the Baltic.

Europa 1854.png
 

chris N

So Far the Russian government had been slow to react to the allied invasion of the Baltic region. There was already Ottoman forces attacking in the Caucasus region and there had been a clash in the Balkans.

The Russian move in the Balkans had clearly shifted things. The Austro-Hungarian Empire had taken a dislike to that action as well as Russia's moving into an area that the Austrian Government was very sensitive to. The Austrians began to move in the clear direction of entering the war.
 

Tongera

I think that Austria didn't have Bosnia at this time, Greece didn't have Macedonia and Crete and Serbia was independent.
 

chris N

You are right about most of what you said. However Serbia was not independent at this time. Below a revised map.

Europa 1854b.png
 

Tongera

I am sure Serbia was de-facto independent. Also, Bosnia was part of the Ottoman Empire at the time, it only came under Austrian possession later.
 

chris N

On Second thought expect another revision of the map showing an independent Serbia.

Europa 1854.png
 
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DanF

First off, great Alternate History idea, and good luck with it!

It was the Austrian Empire not Austrian-Hungarian Empire during the Crimean war. The United Principalities did not occur to 1859, so Moldova and Wallachia were separate nations. Here is quasi-decent map from an older thread: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=114863

Austria had a historical interest in the Danube Provinces, so she might get drawn in if she gets to keep them. She occupied them during the war OTL. With that said the 1848 revolts were bad (ethnically, economically, & militarily) for Austria, and Austria did owe Russia for helping her out in 1848 (OTL she did not repay Russia though). However, OTL was the worst outcome possible for Austria. She did not honor Russia who had helped her, and she did not join the Allies in attacking Russia. This left her completely isolated diplomatically after the war. This benefited both Sardinia (later Italy) and Prussia who were able to beat Austria in later wars thanks to her lack of allies (plus Austria's own military weaknesses).

Also until late 1857 Radetzky is still alive potentially able to lead troops, so Austria would have an experience and very capable general. He got sick in late 1857, and died in January 1858.

Long-term Austria with the Danube provinces is a very different situation (she would be an oil giant in the early 1900s with Galicia and Romanian oil). Also, the ability to play the Hungarian and Romanian people off each other (There populations would be roughly equal, both would want Siebenburgen, and both are not Slavic) could definitely aid the Germans in keeping effective control of Austria. Austria also would not be as isolated diplomatically post Crimean War, and would have a more experienced military (hopefully better generals too, Ferenc Gyulay was a moron). Though, France being allies with Sardinia in trying to form Italy probably would happen no matter what, as it was definitely in France's best interest to push Austria out of Italy.
 
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chris N

Thanks for the info DanF will adjust the map again. I am leaning heavily toward having the Austrians join the allies. I recall that the Austrian government was not at all happy with Russia's sudden involvement in the Balkans. It considered it an intrusion into their sphere of influence and it negated what help the Russians had provided in 1848.
 

Arrix85

Donor
In Italy AH had directly only Lumbardy and Veneto (basically everything east of the ticino and north of Po rivers), Modena, Parma and Tuscany were controlled by ruled by relatives of the Hapbsburgs, but with no ties to the empire otherwise, Bologna and Romagna were in the Papal states.
 

Richter von Manthofen

chris N said:
Thanks for the info DanF will adjust the map again. I am leaning heavily toward having the Austrians join the allies. I recall that the Austrian government was not at all happy with Russia's sudden involvement in the Balkans. It considered it an intrusion into their sphere of influence and it negated what help the Russians had provided in 1848.
Click to expand...

I think Austria would first go to Moscow and suggest that the Russians accept that the "Romanian" Principalties are in the Austrian Sphere of fluence (possible annexation) for Austrias "support" of Russia (coulld but must not be entering the war. If Russia pays this price - well the Austria has won, in not then Austria might join the allies.

Prussia is still more inclined to remain neutral.
 

DanF

Richter von Manthofen said:
I think Austria would first go to Moscow and suggest that the Russians accept that the "Romanian" Principalties are in the Austrian Sphere of fluence (possible annexation) for Austrias "support" of Russia (coulld but must not be entering the war. If Russia pays this price - well the Austria has won, in not then Austria might join the allies.

Prussia is still more inclined to remain neutral.
Click to expand...

That sounds very doable, since OTL Austria gave Russian an Ultimatium in 1855 saying give up or we declare war. The only downside is if Russia says "support" means join our side. I got tore up last year on another thread by suggesting Austria joining Russia in the Crimea would be a good thing for both countries. Multiple posters said Austria would collapse (though in 1850s that seems a little too unlikely to me), and/or the Russia/Austria side would still lose.

To be honest Austria joining the allies will send Russia to the table, especially considering only an Ultimatium did it in OTL.

Another item not discussed, yet is where Peace talks would occur. OTL Prussia took this role, which produced a favorable situation for Russia considering she lost. It also would be interesting to see if France and Britian keep the promise to Sweden and/or Austria if they join the allies if talks are still in Berlin.

Now if talks are held else where like Vienna (Austria joining the allies or just looking out for her own self-interest), could create quite a few possible scenarios: Sweden would want Finland, Sardinia & France would want Austria not to gain prestige or more power, Austria would want prestiege and/or the Danube Principalities, the Ottomans would want to not lose land (the Danube Principaliites were vassals, so they may part with them especially if it cuts down future Russian attack routes), Britain wanted to maintain the balance of power, and Prussia OTL was trying to play nice with Russia to gain an ally (she most likely would try something similar as she wants to check both Austria and France).

Getting back to Russia even though peace was not that harsh toward her the loss of prestige was one of the factors in the 1877 Turkish-Russian war. If a more harsh peace is put on Russia, she might become even more nationalistic/pro-slav than OTL.
 
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chris N

Hit the wrong map. Let me try this again. Hopefully the correct map will come. As for Austria going to Russia and telling the Czar that the region was in Austria's sphere of influence I have my doubts that it would work. There seem to be a growth of a Pan Slavic movement. Russia saw itself as the protector of the Slavic people thus eventually leading to a clash with the Austrians. It might have been better if Austria throws in its lot with the British.

Europa 1854.png
 
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