Surviving Valois

A regency headed by Louise (and peopled by her ultra Catholic relatives) with Henry of Navarre serving as Connetable de France as premier prince du sang. IOW a new round of religious wars is very likely.
 
Razgriz 2K9 said:
So, if Navarre is a vassal, even with a surviving House of Valois-Angouleme, how long would it take until Navarre is incorporated into France?
I would assume as soon as possible as the King of France will want to finish bringing French lands into the royal dosmaine: the Navarese possession were the last ones to join the royal dosmaine OTL when Henri IV became King. That said, it will require Navarre to be ruled/inherited by a woman and a Dauphin/King of France around the same age to marry her. And if that marriage still happens, they still need to have sons as otherwise there won't be a union of crowns.
Kellan Sullivan said:
A regency headed by Louise (and peopled by her ultra Catholic relatives) with Henry of Navarre serving as Connetable de France as premier prince du sang. IOW a new round of religious wars is very likely.
That's one of the most likely scenario, yes. But it still depends on several things:
-How Henri III having children would affect French politics. OTL, one of the Religious Wars started because his brother had died and his only heir was thus the Protestant Henri de Navarre (OTL Henri IV). And the fact Henri de Navarre was Henri III's only heir was a constant thorn in his side. If Henri III has sons, the situation could turn out differently.
-The exact relationship between Louise de Lorraine and her Guise relatives. As Queen of France, she apparently didn't make any move to support them or to convince Henri III to follow them.
-Louise de Lorraine's political skills.
-The exact age of Henri III's son and heir, as well as his personnality.
-The number of children of Henri III and Louise de Lorraine. If they have more than one son, this would reduce the chances of Henri de Navarre getting the throne, which could have some impact.
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
I would assume as soon as possible as the King of France will want to finish bringing French lands into the royal dosmaine: the Navarese possession were the last ones to join the royal dosmaine OTL when Henri IV became King. That said, it will require Navarre to be ruled/inherited by a woman and a Dauphin/King of France around the same age to marry her. And if that marriage still happens, they still need to have sons as otherwise there won't be a union of crowns.

So chances are, it would probably be after Henri III of Navarre kicks the bucket. I highly doubt that he would sire an heir with a woman who's constantly quarreling with her husband and is probably uninterested in siring an heir with him. Of course the next closest candidate is the Duc de Rohan, Henry (a descendent of Queen Catherine I de Foix) but something tells me that it would be added to the demense long before that.

That's one of the most likely scenario, yes. But it still depends on several things:
-How Henri III having children would affect French politics. OTL, one of the Religious Wars started because his brother had died and his only heir was thus the Protestant Henri de Navarre (OTL Henri IV). And the fact Henri de Navarre was Henri III's only heir was a constant thorn in his side. If Henri III has sons, the situation could turn out differently.
-The exact relationship between Louise de Lorraine and her Guise relatives. As Queen of France, she apparently didn't make any move to support them or to convince Henri III to follow them.
-Louise de Lorraine's political skills.
-The exact age of Henri III's son and heir, as well as his personnality.
-The number of children of Henri III and Louise de Lorraine. If they have more than one son, this would reduce the chances of Henri de Navarre getting the throne, which could have some impact.

-I dunno, even with a son of Henri III, I do not believe it would change the situation all that much.

-I know Louise de Lorraine was quite dutiful, but from her upbringing, I don't think that she would show much loyalty to her relatives compared to her husband, the King.

-[Insert Comment when I can figure that out]

-No remark

-As stated before, there should also be some consideration concerning the impact of the posibility of Henri III not siring heirs as well. What would Henri III and his sons do when he dies, does it pass to Henri de Rohan? Or does it get added to the demense, also how would he solve the religious situation there?
 
Razgriz 2K9 said:
So chances are, it would probably be after Henri III of Navarre kicks the bucket. I highly doubt that he would sire an heir with a woman who's constantly quarreling with her husband and is probably uninterested in siring an heir with him. Of course the next closest candidate is the Duc de Rohan, Henry (a descendent of Queen Catherine I de Foix) but something tells me that it would be added to the demense long before that.
I don't think it would come after Henri III of Navarre dies. After all, he could still get his marriage annulled (or divorce if he remains Protestant) and remarry to have kids: less likely to happen as he won't be on the French throne, but still a possibility.

Then you have the fact that Henri had a younger sister, Catherine. OTL, she was married to the Duke of Lorraine but I think that happened when her brother was on the French throne so it could be butterflied away. If she marries someone else, she could very well have children and they could end up on the Navarese throne.

Finally, if neither Henri nor Catherine have children, the Navarese throne would go to the Duke of Rohan as you said. I don't think the King of France could do anything to prevent that nor could he seize Navarre as Navarre is an indepent realm in its own right. So immediately after Henri III of Navarre's death, I still think Navarre would be independent.

I would rather count at least 50 years before Navarre gets incorporated in the French Kingdom.With good luck and timing (right age candidates respectively as Dauphin/King of France and Heiress/Queen of Navarre).
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
I don't think it would come after Henri III of Navarre dies. After all, he could still get his marriage annulled (or divorce if he remains Protestant) and remarry to have kids: less likely to happen as he won't be on the French throne, but still a possibility.

Then you have the fact that Henri had a younger sister, Catherine. OTL, she was married to the Duke of Lorraine but I think that happened when her brother was on the French throne so it could be butterflied away. If she marries someone else, she could very well have children and they could end up on the Navarese throne.

Finally, if neither Henri nor Catherine have children, the Navarese throne would go to the Duke of Rohan as you said. I don't think the King of France could do anything to prevent that nor could he seize Navarre as Navarre is an indepent realm in its own right. So immediately after Henri III of Navarre's death, I still think Navarre would be independent.

I would rather count at least 50 years before Navarre gets incorporated in the French Kingdom.With good luck and timing (right age candidates respectively as Dauphin/King of France and Heiress/Queen of Navarre).

You mean the potential marriage between Charles IX's or Henri III's son with a potential heiress of Navarre (either through Henry of Navarre's probable daughter, assuming he divorces Margaret de Valois or through Catherine de Bourbon.)

So let's assume that Henry does die heirless, and Catherine does become queen. Assuming that a King of France would look to marry her as well, who else would be interested in marrying her? I would assume one choice being other French Protestants of the time like Francis de Coligny, and the probably current Prince du Sang, Henri de Bourbon, Prince of Conde. (alternatively Francis or the later Charles de Bourbon)
 
Henry III can remain king of Poland if one of his brothers has a son. Polish history will change dramatically.

Whether for good or ill in the long term is anybody's guess. [Short term, not so good; Stefan Bathory as king would be missed].
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
On the flip side, assuming that Charles IX has an heir, we might see Poland maybe become subject to increased centralization. Whether this is good or bad largely depends on the interests of our "buddies" to the east and west, that be Russia and the HRE.
 
Henry III can remain king of Poland if one of his brothers has a son. Polish history will change dramatically.

Whether for good or ill in the long term is anybody's guess. [Short term, not so good; Stefan Bathory as king would be missed].

Intersting, Henry I Valois of Poland...

And that is why Charles IX should have a son:D
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
I too would love to see something develop from a timeline like that...If I had time and patience, I'd give it a shot.
 
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