Surviving Spanish Habsburgs

So, I'm on a bit of a Spanish kick at the moment, and I've begun wondering, with his second wife, Felipe IV had three sons:

Felipe Prospero

Ferdinand Thomas

and of course the infamous Carlos II

What I am wondering is, if say Felipe or Ferdinand had survived and were health and able to have children, what might the consequences have been? Especially if Carlos is born as he was otl?
 
So, I'm on a bit of a Spanish kick at the moment, and I've begun wondering, with his second wife, Felipe IV had three sons:

Felipe Prospero

Ferdinand Thomas

and of course the infamous Carlos II

What I am wondering is, if say Felipe or Ferdinand had survived and were health and able to have children, what might the consequences have been? Especially if Carlos is born as he was otl?

Unless they married to someone far away from their family, they would only postpone their line's demise by another generation at most, as it happened to the Austrian branch. Quite possibly, they would make the same mistake of marrying the infantes to first cousins or nieces.
 
Alternatively who could Felipe marry who wasn't as closely related to him as Marianna was that could perhaps give him some healthy kids?
 
Unless they married to someone far away from their family, they would only postpone their line's demise by another generation at most, as it happened to the Austrian branch. Quite possibly, they would make the same mistake of marrying the infantes to first cousins or nieces.
This is true, would Felipe be able to look elsewhere for a marriage then? Rather than marrying his niece?
 
This is true, would Felipe be able to look elsewhere for a marriage then? Rather than marrying his niece?

Why would he? Western science at the time lacked the understanding that interbreeding was destructive. They were not as stupid as some think of going as far as to believe that it was simply God's punishment, but they were oblivious to the fact they had slowely killed their dinasty by marrying with the family.
 
Why would he? Western science at the time lacked the understanding that interbreeding was destructive. They were not as stupid as some think of going as far as to believe that it was simply God's punishment, but they were oblivious to the fact they had slowely killed their dinasty by marrying with the family.
True though perhaps there could be a marriage that would be of some political benefit not to a niece per day?
 
True though perhaps there could be a marriage that would be of some political benefit not to a niece per day?

To whom? To the Portuguese Braganza, who were their enemies and, until recently, leaders of a rebellion that robbed the Spanish of Portugal? Or the French Bourbons, all of which were half-Habsburgs? You could hope that a bastard Habsburg, with enough non-royal (yet, healthier) blood in his veins could become king, as happened with the Aviz and Braganza in Portugal (king João I of Aviz was the illegitimate son of king Pedro I and king João IV of Braganza was descendant in the male line of the aforementioned João I; they were, however, nobles).
 
So, I'm on a bit of a Spanish kick at the moment, and I've begun wondering, with his second wife, Felipe IV had three sons:

Felipe Prospero

Ferdinand Thomas

and of course the infamous Carlos II

What I am wondering is, if say Felipe or Ferdinand had survived and were health and able to have children, what might the consequences have been? Especially if Carlos is born as he was otl?
TFW no mention of Balthazar
 
To whom? To the Portuguese Braganza, who were their enemies and, until recently, leaders of a rebellion that robbed the Spanish of Portugal? Or the French Bourbons, all of which were half-Habsburgs? You could hope that a bastard Habsburg, with enough non-royal (yet, healthier) blood in his veins could become king, as happened with the Aviz and Braganza in Portugal (king João I of Aviz was the illegitimate son of king Pedro I and king João IV of Braganza was descendant in the male line of the aforementioned João I; they were, however, nobles).
True or I suppose they could try marrying a distant Habsburg cousin or a German princess
 
Unless they married to someone far away from their family, they would only postpone their line's demise by another generation at most, as it happened to the Austrian branch. Quite possibly, they would make the same mistake of marrying the infantes to first cousins or nieces.

Might I ask, as this is something I always see. We definitely know inbreeding contributed to the decline of both branches especially the Spanish branch, but with regards to Charles VI & Joseph I it seem that its just some really bad luck. The Austrian branch in general seemed to have a lot of sons with a lot of badluck, some didn't marry, some died early others shifted to the church. As far as I know the brides of both Charles and Joseph were the most distantly related of pretty much any Habsburg match post Frederich III & Maximilian I. So is it more bad luck for the last scions of the Austrian branch or inbreeding. Sorry to distract from the main question.

In response to the main question maybe have a Jagiellon or Vasa princess marry into the spanish line. or avoid Charles (son of Philipp II) going mad. Philipp III did't trust his brothers. Installing Cardinal Infante Ferdinand in S. Nederlands could work for a cadet spanish line as well.
 
Might I ask, as this is something I always see. We definitely know inbreeding contributed to the decline of both branches especially the Spanish branch, but with regards to Charles VI & Joseph I it seem that its just some really bad luck. The Austrian branch in general seemed to have a lot of sons with a lot of badluck, some didn't marry, some died early others shifted to the church. As far as I know the brides of both Charles and Joseph were the most distantly related of pretty much any Habsburg match post Frederich III & Maximilian I. So is it more bad luck for the last scions of the Austrian branch or inbreeding. Sorry to distract from the main question.

In response to the main question maybe have a Jagiellon or Vasa princess marry into the spanish line. or avoid Charles (son of Philipp II) going mad. Philipp III did't trust his brothers. Installing Cardinal Infante Ferdinand in S. Nederlands could work for a cadet spanish line as well.

Alright interesting, in regards to the Vasa Princess, would Anna Catherine Constance daughter of Sigismund III Vasa do as a bride for Philip IV?
 
Alright interesting, in regards to the Vasa Princess, would Anna Catherine Constance daughter of Sigismund III Vasa do as a bride for Philip IV?
Why? Remember at this time marriages are for the mutual benefit of both parties, what Poland have to benefit Spain?
 
Why? Remember at this time marriages are for the mutual benefit of both parties, what Poland have to benefit Spain?

Possible ally in the war against Sweden, if indeed the thirty years war is going as badly for Spain as it was otl.

Alternatively, I do suppose a Habsburg marriage would make the most sense.
 
TBH I would put more money on Baltasar Carlos surviving (it was an attack of appendicitis, that the Spanish tried exorcising him for. Get a French doctor who knows what he's doing to treat him instead, and we might go somewhere), Granted, he had a short-lived/stillborn full-brother, Francisco Fernando (b&d 12 March 1634), so you could go that direction too. Baltasar married Marianna (I started a TL where her epilepsy kills her en route to Spain, although BC is hale and hearty), which puts her out of Felipe's reach. Felipe needs to find another bride.

The only real options I can think of in the 1640s/early1650s to marry him would be Austrian or Italian. Bavaria had no one available, the Princess of Poland might fly but considering how she went through betrothals OTL before finally marrying relatively late, I don't think the Spanish will be happy. Now the Further Austrian line are only Felipe's first cousins once removed, and there are ladies from Parma, Modena, Tuscany (Anna de Medici married pretty late and still managed 3 kids), Mantua and Savoy. If he's got a surviving son and heir and simply wants to shore up the succession, then he's not getting a royal daughter, and Anna de Medici or such would be a good idea (I went with Anna de Medici in my TL, and married her OTL husband to the OTL Empress Eleanora Gonzaga Jnr in a double match between Austria and Mantua)
 
TBH I would put more money on Baltasar Carlos surviving (it was an attack of appendicitis, that the Spanish tried exorcising him for. Get a French doctor who knows what he's doing to treat him instead, and we might go somewhere), Granted, he had a short-lived/stillborn full-brother, Francisco Fernando (b&d 12 March 1634), so you could go that direction too. Baltasar married Marianna (I started a TL where her epilepsy kills her en route to Spain, although BC is hale and hearty), which puts her out of Felipe's reach. Felipe needs to find another bride.

The only real options I can think of in the 1640s/early1650s to marry him would be Austrian or Italian. Bavaria had no one available, the Princess of Poland might fly but considering how she went through betrothals OTL before finally marrying relatively late, I don't think the Spanish will be happy. Now the Further Austrian line are only Felipe's first cousins once removed, and there are ladies from Parma, Modena, Tuscany (Anna de Medici married pretty late and still managed 3 kids), Mantua and Savoy. If he's got a surviving son and heir and simply wants to shore up the succession, then he's not getting a royal daughter, and Anna de Medici or such would be a good idea (I went with Anna de Medici in my TL, and married her OTL husband to the OTL Empress Eleanora Gonzaga Jnr in a double match between Austria and Mantua)

Okay interesting, so it would make more sense for Balthasar or his brother Francis to survive, than to have Felipe try again?

So, Balthasar survives, marries Marianna, if his brother also survives, I suppose he could go with Caterina Farnese?
 
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