Surviving Michael III or no OTL Andronikos II?

Title says all. If I've been going overboard with Byzantine-specific threads, don't worry, this will be the last one for a while.

1. Michael III was the last Byzantine emperor of the Amorian/Phrygian dynasty. During his reign, he sponsored the missions of Cyril & Methodios, saw the conversion of the Bulgars to Orthodox Christianity and was described by Arab sources as an active and successful commander. He met his end when he was assassinated on the orders of Basil I, founder of the Macedonian dynasty.

OTL, he had no children by his wife, Eudokia Dekapolitissa, and two children by his mistress Eudokia Ingerina - the future Leo VI 'the Wise' and Patriarch Stephen I. To avoid a scandal, he married Eudokia Ingerina off to Basil. If Dekapolitissa dies, would he be able to marry Ingerina? Would he still be in danger from Basil?

2. Michael VIII Palaiologos died in 1282 and was succeeded by his eldest son Andronikos II, who was a... less than impressive emperor. What if Andronikos ended up dying before Michael VIII? Would he be succeeded by his second son, Constantine, or his grandson, OTL Michael IX? Would the Byzantine Empire still be on the downward spiral?
 
1. If Michael marries his mistress, would Leo VI (their son, but born while she was married to Basil) still be able to succeed?

2. In OTL, Michael IX tried to put up a fight against the Ottomans and lost every battle against them. I don't think he was an unusually bad commander, it was more a matter of lack of resources. Any alternative to Andronicus II has to come up with a way to win.

Maybe the empire would have been better off if it hadn't recovered the capital and concentrated on holding to as much of Anatolia as it could.
 
I haven't got much on one, but for two, it's almost definitely gonna be Constantine who succeeds to the throne. Michael IX is either five or nonexistant, depending on when Andronikos dies, and Constantine is a purple born prince and an accomplished commander. In that case, I think the empire will fare better. Not only does Constantine appear to be more capable than Andronikos, but if Andronikos dies before having surviving issue then there are fewer potential claimants to wage wars against one another (OTL Constantine's son betrayed the empire in favor of the Bulgarians, taking Thessalonica, the most populous city in the empire at the time, with him).
 
Okay, so Constantine would be infinitely better for the empire than Andronikos II, but for how long?

And what about a continuing Phrygian dynasty? If Michael III's first wife dies and he marries his mistress before Basil does, would Leo succeed him or would he need a purple-born son? Leo VI's upbringing would be different since Basil hated him. This might be unrelated, but I read somewhere that Leo wasn't as wise as his epitaph said he was.

Thoughts?
 
Bump? :confused:

I've gone over a few thoughts on Michael III. I think that without Basil I, the Byzantines might reconquer more of Sicily, Southern Italy and possibly Syria, Armenia and Georgia while Bulgaria might remain independent for longer.

Thoughts? Anyone? ;)
 
Bump? :confused:

I've gone over a few thoughts on Michael III. I think that without Basil I, the Byzantines might reconquer more of Sicily, Southern Italy and possibly Syria, Armenia and Georgia while Bulgaria might remain independent for longer.

Thoughts? Anyone? ;)
The problem is, I honestly don't know what Michael III would have done differently. If he has legitimate children then his authority is strengthened, but lets face it, he was a born follower. In the event that he gets lucky and is in a position to marry Eudokia after Leo's birth, Basil's stock falls, but that just means Bardas' influence remains stronger. The expedition to Crete could wind up recovering it, but beyond that Bardas is at least fifty, and barring murder Basil and Michael will both long outlive him. The big question then is whether his sons can make use of their better footing in the event that their father dies a natural death, footing that only gets better if he dies after conquering Crete. We know so little about them that it's entirely possible that they will still fall victim to Basil and history will go pretty much the same, but with Crete possibly returned to the empire a century early, which in and of itself may have the effect of creating a stronger empire with a greater maritime presence, but beyond that it's mostly butterflies, as the empire wasn't facing any immediate existential threats, and Basil wound up being succeeded by Michael's heir presumptive IOTL anyways, meaning the line of succession will remain similar.
 
Okay, I'm having a brainstorm for a potential ATL involving both the Amorian and Macedonian dynasties. I'm just spilling out some ideas of what it would involve:

* Michael III does have one more child by Eudokia Ingerina (born after his death) who remains hidden until after Basil I's death.

* Somehow, the Byzantine position in Southern Italy strengthens and Sicily is not lost.

* Basil I has more children than in OTL, some by Eudokia, others by his mistresses.

*Basil I's oldest son Constantine doesn't die and ends up succeeding as emperor instead of Leo.

* Basil I still leaves the empire better than when he found it, but when he dies... Family drama! Murder! Revenge! Romanos Lekapenos!

* Great Moravia remains Orthodox and/or the Magyars convert to Orthodoxy.

Any thoughts?
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
Okay, I'm having a brainstorm for a potential ATL involving both the Amorian and Macedonian dynasties. I'm just spilling out some ideas of what it would involve:

* Michael III does have one more child by Eudokia Ingerina (born after his death) who remains hidden until after Basil I's death.

* Somehow, the Byzantine position in Southern Italy strengthens and Sicily is not lost.

* Basil I has more children than in OTL, some by Eudokia, others by his mistresses.

*Basil I's oldest son Constantine doesn't die and ends up succeeding as emperor instead of Leo.

* Basil I still leaves the empire better than when he found it, but when he dies... Family drama! Murder! Revenge! Romanos Lekapenos!

* Great Moravia remains Orthodox and/or the Magyars convert to Orthodoxy.

Any thoughts?

How much of Sicily is not lost, cause IIRC, and I might be wrong, I think Muslims were attempting conquest before Basil.
 
How much of Sicily is not lost, cause IIRC, and I might be wrong, I think Muslims were attempting conquest before Basil.

If the emperors focus, I'd say, perhaps, enough to regain Messina and Malta in the short term and Palermo up to Lilybaeum in the long term.

As I said, I was just spilling out ideas. Any thoughts on the other dot-points I listed?
 
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