Surviving "lost" European Nations

Savoy is a good idea as well. Burgundy and Savoy are two nations that puzzle me because it seems like they were distinct enough to have their own independent nations for a while, but they're really French. Did French regions have a lot of split identities like the Italian and German states did prior to unification?
 
What about Prussia? You'll need the Crusades to play out differently, or the Prussians to convert to Christianity, to avoid the Teutonic Knights taking over, but surely it could be done.
 
Savoy is a good idea as well. Burgundy and Savoy are two nations that puzzle me because it seems like they were distinct enough to have their own independent nations for a while, but they're really French. Did French regions have a lot of split identities like the Italian and German states did prior to unification?

In some ways yea , and others not. Most parts of France have shared a reletively similar cultural , social and religous past , but reigonal identities and language dialects were still very common in the late 19th century. Even by the time of the Great War , men from the south east , Brittany , and Gascony often had to be segregated due to the incompatability of the local language dialects
 
Ottoman Empire and the Dual Monarchy

I think the world might have been better off if World War I had been concluded, like previous wars, with a compromise, a minor redrawing of borders, instead of the complete dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires. These superstates might have served as strong bulwarks against the twin tyrannies of Communism and National Socialism that arose to devastate Europe in the next World War.
 
Well, which was more likely to survive as a nation, Savoy or Burgundy? I think the latter because it was an actual kingdom within the Holy Roman Empire.
 
I think the world might have been better off if World War I had been concluded, like previous wars, with a compromise, a minor redrawing of borders, instead of the complete dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires. These superstates might have served as strong bulwarks against the twin tyrannies of Communism and National Socialism that arose to devastate Europe in the next World War.

A Middle East ruled by an Ottoman Caliph might not be as susceptible to Islamic radicalism, too.
 
If Charles the Bold doesnt die heirless, Austria never inherits Burgundy, and Burgundy therefore manages to hold on to all Benelux, Burgundy proper, Franche-Compté, and to have a land bridge between it all, lets say it also manages to get Lorthighen.

So basically, youd have a pretty solid country covering north-eastern france, luxemburg, belgium and the netherlands. Working from there is pretty easy. Obviously, that country would always have to be wary of wars, as it would stand as a buffer between hostile France and a lukewarm HRE.

It would need at the same time to develop the trade and naval traits that made Netherlands successful in OTL. Its logical ally would probably be England. Spain's decline in TTL would be slower, without all the troubles brought by a rebellious netherlands.

Starting earlier than Netherlands in OTL, and later incorportating alot of portugeuse colonies as in OTL, Burgundy could build a pretty strong empire. The peak of the Empire would be the 18th century, when England owns Hannover (thus securing Burgundy's eastern border). Before that, obviously, there would be huge changes, like, no Westphalia, and probably no Germano-French wars, unless Burgundy picks a side.

Nontheless, Burgundy was traditionally lukewarm to the HRE (Though she was a member), so other conflicts would probably still bring about the decline of whatever central authority exists in Germany throuought the Renaissance.

As for modern times, lets say Burgundy survives and consolidate until the era of revolutions. There, it begins a slow colonial and commercial decline. The French revolution can still happen, though it could as well not, but lets say it does. The victorious armies of France allows the realisation of an old french imperial dream; fusion with Burgundy, to break England's might on the continent. However, later misfortunes in the war push back France to its pre-war boundaries.

Burgundy is reborn, though changed forever by the French civil laws and a newfound desire for the ideals of the french revolution. Though its colonial empire is largely lost, Burgundy industrialize very fast, just one step behind England, propelling it to world class power. When, later this century, Prussians brings war to Burgundy, this industrial might fails to translate adequately on the battlefield however, and a behemoth united Germany appears on Burgundy's border. Worse: the punishment for refusing to join this german union, for Burgundy, is a serious loss of territory in the north and the east. The German Kaiser is crowned in the High Palace at Aix-la-Chapelle.

This humiliation brings Burgundy much closer to France. Thirty years later, they get their revenge after a long bloody war that leaves Europe in ruins. France, Burgondy, England and the Ottoman Empire finally defeats Germany, Austria and Russia. Vengeful Burgundy now extends to the Rhine.

I guess a surviving Burgundy would kind of be like the Low Countries writ large. Then again, I'm not sure if the Benelux nations would exist if Burgundy did.

Also see:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=23296
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=58741
 

Philip

Donor
A Middle East ruled by an Ottoman Caliph might not be as susceptible to Islamic radicalism, too.

The Ottomans would certainly be able to deal with them better than OTL newer, inexperienced states. However, as the Ottoman state continues to modernize, I think it would still agitate the traditionalists in Arabia and elsewhere.
 
I do like Northumbria. Its a sad state of affairs that it had its identity torn asunder and split between the Scots and those darn name stealing Saxons.

How aout Northumbria and Pictland ganging up on the Scots to drive them back to Ireland? Could still have a kingdom of Strathclyde as well
 
. For example, everyone knows about the Bretons and how Brittany used to be its own country.

For less than a century, IIRC ( I'm on holiday and don't have access to my sources for now ). That's the time between Nomenoe (sp?) declaring Brittanny a Kingdom and the Duke of Normandy conquering it and reducing it to a county ( it became a Duchy again when the french took back Normandy from the English )
 
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