Surviving Khanate of the Golden Horde

The Khanate of the Golden Horde was the Longest Lived of the Khanates that succeeded the Great Mongol Empire of Genghis Khan and his direct successors. Ultimate, it collapsed during the 15th century (it was formally conquered by the Astrakhan Khanate in 1502).

How can the Golden Horde survive, and modernize to become a state in its own right, either as a major Islamic power or even as a Eastern Orthodox state?
 
It finds the lost kingdom of Prester John. Converted to Christianity, they become a stabilising influence in the areas they control?
 
It finds the lost kingdom of Prester John. Converted to Christianity, they become a stabilising influence in the areas they control?

The Golden Horde was Muslim for more than 100 years when it finally died.
Even before that, it was unlikely to turn Christian due to the Ilkhanate being Muslim for around 50 years before the Golden Horde.

Notwithstanding the fact that the Mongol Empire, its predecessor, destroyed one of the inspirations for the legend of Prester John (the Naiman khanate).
The other main inspiration, Ethiopia, was hard to get to from their location.

Finally, they had more immediate issues than trying to find some mostly fictional kingdom that Western European explorers were talking about.
They also didn't control any Christian lands for around 100 years after their decline.
 
the Crimean khanate lasted until 1783 as an Ottoman vassal before being annexed by Catherine of Russia.
Now Catherine actually liked the Khan Giray, so lets posit that the khan actually invited Catherine to annex Crimea and suppress his enemies. Giray is made the Crimea governor and maintains the Khans ancestral authority. In 1917, following the Russian Revolution, Bakhlu Giray founds the Crimean republic and is able to repel the Bolsheviks, later it becomes a key ally to Turkey and thus survives to modern times ..
 
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If the Crimean khanate lasted until 1783 as an Ottoman vassal before being annexed by Catherine of Russia.
Now Catherine actually like the Khan Giray, so lets posit that the khan actually invited Catherine to annex Crimea and suppress his enemies. Giray is made the Crimea governor and maintains the Khans ancestral authority. In 1917, following the Russian Revolution, Bakhlu Giray founds the Crimean republic and is able to repel the Bolsheviks, later it becomes a key ally to Turkey and thus survives to modern times ..

Wrong Khanate and too many butterflies. The Golden Horde would have to survive and not have it break apart, a quick look on the wiki you had succession problems and infighting that tore the horde apart and allowed the various to split apart.
 
Wrong Khanate and too many butterflies. The Golden Horde would have to survive and not have it break apart, a quick look on the wiki you had succession problems and infighting that tore the horde apart and allowed the various to split apart.

OTL It could be argued that the Khanate of Crimea was a successor to the Golden Horde following its break up. in the new TL the new President Giray Khan simply declares himself the 'spiritual successor' of the Golden Horde:)

but yeah I can see the butterflies
 
But spiritual successor is not the same as the continuation of the original, and I was looking for a surviving Golden Horde, not a surviving Crimean Khanate.

How does one streamline the succession however?
 
The Khanate of the Golden Horde was the Longest Lived of the Khanates that succeeded the Great Mongol Empire of Genghis Khan and his direct successors. Ultimate, it collapsed during the 15th century (it was formally conquered by the Astrakhan Khanate in 1502).

How can the Golden Horde survive, and modernize to become a state in its own right, either as a major Islamic power or even as a Eastern Orthodox state?

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scenario #1
as an Eastern Orthodox state

The Golden Horde converts to Eastern Orthodox Christianity instead of Islam. The cultural, religious and power centres slowly moves closer to North-Western Rus (Russia, Moskovia). In the end by the XVIII century we have ATL Russia which has the proud name of "the Golden Horde" but it closely resembles OTL Russia with a few differences:
1) 80% of the nobility has the Mongol (Tartar) origin as opposed to OTL 50%
2) much more borrowings in this ATL Russian language from the Turkic language(s); Nobility might stay billingual Russian-Turkic and Turkic language is the second language of large part of Russian population
3) the monarch of the ATL Golden Horde is called "Khan" and at the same time "Tsar"

These Golden Horde Tsars/Khans will inevitably support Constantinople or/and want to take it as the centre of Orthodox Christianity. Which makes certain the clash with ATL analogue of Osman Turk. With unpredictable results.

And this ATL Golden Horde will have much more troubles in Central Asia against the Muslim Chagatai Ulus. ATL analogue of Tamerlane (if there is such) will concentrate his effort in fighting infidel Golden Horde which means even more trouble than in OTL. Actually that might mean total destruction of this ATL Golden Horde or the destruction of the steppe Turkic parts of the Golden Horde and the better preservation of the forest Russian parts of the ATL Golden Horde. And thus the Golden Horde becomes even more "Russian" as a result.

So all in all nowadays ATL we have the Golden Horde which very much resembles OTL Russia.

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scenario #2
as a major Islamic Power

The Golden Horde survives the invasion of Tamerlane, or Tamerlane dies earlier and there is no invasion.
And then this ATL Golden Horde changes its' policy towards Russia. Something like what the Osman Turks did in Orthodox Balkans - the same is done in Russia by the Golden Horde Turks. Meaning direct occupation, assimilation and forced islamization.
That might be even easier for the Golden Horde Turks in Russia than for the Osman Turks in the Balkans - the Catholic Christian neighbors of Russia will support the Golden Horde in its' effort to subjugate it totally. In OTL the Mongols often allied with Lithuania/Poland against Russia.

This ATL Golden Horde might ally with the Osman Porta against Persian Shiite Safavids and against the Christian West.
And internally the Golden Horde might resemble the Osman Turk Empire with janissares recruited from Christian Russian boys and the like. And I am afraid the Golden Horde will have the same violent disintegration as the Osman Turkey had in OTL.
But as Turkey of nowadays is the rightfull successor of Osman Empire there might have been some successor of this ATL Golden Horde in the 21-st century somewhere on Volga and Caspian Sea, maybe including the Crimea.
 
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I don't think a policy change towards the Russians is necessary for Golden Horde survival. In its later years, it had no border w/ the Russians. The major challenge is to prevent split-off khanates, and if they do arise:

1. The split-offs need to be prevented from overpowering the Golden Horde.

2. They needs to find some way of survival other than raiding everyone.
 
I don't think a policy change towards the Russians is necessary for Golden Horde survival.
I am afraid it is necessary.
You see it is about demography, birth rate and technology (powder/firearms against bow/arrow).
All the above are against the Golden Horde. Without change of policy it is just a matter of time when the Russians overwhelm the Mongols/Tartars.
 

birdboy2000

Banned
I am afraid it is necessary.
You see it is about demography, birth rate and technology (powder/firearms against bow/arrow).
All the above are against the Golden Horde. Without change of policy it is just a matter of time when the Russians overwhelm the Mongols/Tartars.

But Russia's OTL conquest depended in large part on playing the Tatar states against each other, and a united Golden Horde is a much harder target. It's true that the declining importance of cavalry will hurt them severely, but I don't see modernization and greater population growth as impossible once the issue becomes clear - even OTL Sarai was a huge city at its height and the Horde ruled more than just nomadic steppe.

The decline of horse archers' dominance on the battlefield are certainly a tough needle to thread that could threaten the state's survival, but given how much trouble any effective alliance among the successor states gave Russia, having them in one state instead of divided into six makes the Tatars a lot less doomed - and even OTL Sarai fell to other Tatar polities decades before Russia got there.
 
I am afraid it is necessary.
You see it is about demography, birth rate and technology (powder/firearms against bow/arrow).
All the above are against the Golden Horde. Without change of policy it is just a matter of time when the Russians overwhelm the Mongols/Tartars.

Demography:

The Golden Horde doesn't have to retain Russia to survive. Russia is actually a waste of time for them.

Technology:

If I remember correctly, the Golden Horde did employ firearms.

Birth Rate:

Neither side had a real advantage - any Russian advantage would be countered by the Golden Horde's Islamic faith allowing multiple wives.

The Golden Horde declined because of horde infighting, which weakened the already lightly populated hordes so Russia could move in.

Russia "won" because the hordes were weak enough to let strong Russia in, not due to any permanent disadvantages.
 
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