Surviving Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) Confederacy

jycee

What would be the chances or what would need to happen for the Haudenosaunee Confederacy to survive? Do you think that in the case of a surviving New Netherland and New France, they would be able to play the settlers against each other to survive (they would need to halt the inland advance of these and New England to do so)? Or could they have done so regardless? Personally, I think that their expansion westward could have been a mistake, and it would have been best for them to simply hold on to their main territory.

And more importantly, what would the confederacy look like? I realize they don't really have the numbers to stay afloat so they would have to take settlers (whether other Native Tribes or Europeans willing to assimilate or not cause too much trouble).
 

Vinization

Did they have any chance to centralize? How high was their population? Could they perhaps adopt some European crops and foodstuffs?

I fully agree that a larger number of European countries setting up colonies is needed, the more the merrier.
 

Kerney

Ally with the Dutch more firmly and somehow prevent the English take over of New Netherland. Help the New England tribes drive the English out of New England, leaving the English Maryland south.

Now between two second rate (In American terms) powers. Keep your numbers up through adoption and hope everything turns out.
 

CastIron

Vinization said:
Did they have any chance to centralize? How high was their population? Could they perhaps adopt some European crops and foodstuffs?
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I don't think that centralization would have really mattered in this case, it was more weight of numbers on the side of settlers and a lack of feuding powers to play off of that really doomed much of the American Indians west of the Mississippi.

Also, the Three Sisters (corn, beans, squash grown together) and Agro-forestry provided an food base that supported the Haudenosaunee and most of America east of and near the Mississippi and it's tributaries. Don't think European crops would really matter much, though the adoption of Eurasian livestock could provide a ready source of protein if/ when the traditional way of agro-forestry breaks down.
The potato, though, could probably help expand agricultural surplus, just because it's versatile, hardy, and nutritious.
 
Neoteros

Neoteros

durante said:
They, uh...survive. I grew up on their land:

Six Nations of the Grand River

www.sixnations.ca www.sixnations.ca

They have a flag, issue passports, and compete Internationally in Lacrosse.
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Sure, but they're not as internationally recognized as, I don't know, Canada.

That said, adopting agricultural and technological innovations from their neighbours while playing them off each other might be all the Confederacy would need to do, to survive as a fully independent country; in fact, they might even expand in spite of Western encroachment, similarly to what the Mapuche were doing in South America around the same time.

And lacrosse might end up far more popular a sport than it is IRL, especially if some Irish and Scottish settlers notice how similar it is to their own traditional pastimes. :p
 

PrinceofApathy

You would have to severely limit the influx of white settlers on to their land, for long enough for them to make a comeback and rebound their population.
 
durante

durante

If the Americans lose the ARW, that's a good first step.

Alternatively, the Canadian government owes them about a trillion dollars. So they could pay them:


TLDW: they were ceded nearly 1m acres of land (6 miles on either side of the Grand River) for services to the crown during the ARW.

And then the governments of Upper Canada/Canada West/Canada/Ontario sold the land to settlers and developers.

In some cases, this was done by with approval of the Six Nations, and some of the land was sold by them voluntarily. But it doesnt get any better when that was that circumstance - the Six Nations didn't trust the Indian Agents of Upper Canada, so they had all proceeds of their land sales in the early days kept in an investment Bank in England.

In the early 19th century, a cash-strapped Upper Canada managed to convince this bank to release the funds to them, on condition that it would be used for the Six Nations (as it was their money). Spoiler alert: it wasn't.
 
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