Survival of the North Sea Empire?

Is it at all possible that England, Norway and Denmark could have remained united for significantly longer then they did in OTL after the death of Canute? Could the country survive into the early modern period and expand into new land? I read that Canute had some success with creating an Anglo-scandanavian identity so maybe something can be built from this?

I tried searching the forum but couldn't find anything, but if you have a link to a previous discussion let me know
 
Have Edward the Confessor die before Harthacnut. Iirc there were no other members of the House of Wessex nearer than Hungary, so it probably goes to another Dane by default - maybe Sweyn Estridson.
 
It is difficult to create something like this long lasting as England's size will lead to it quickly dominating but make it difficult to project power against any Scandinavian revolt before the 1600s.
Best bet is a series of unions that end relatively friendly before setting up for extended personal union in the modern period
 

Driftless

Donor
Would a relatively long lasting empire promote more common language elements between the different parts of the empire? More or less commonality than happened with Norman French vs Saxon in England?
 
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There kind of already was to a lesser extent, I think there were still descendents of the Norse still living in England at the time, and before the advent of the Middle English-era in England, the Late Old-English/Anglo-Saxon language and to a lesser extent Scottish Gaelic did incorporate elements from Old Norse.
 
Would a relatively long lasting empire promote more common language elements between the different parts of the empire? More or less commonality than happened with Norman French vs Saxon in England?

Well yes this is what I am thinking, in large sections of Northern and Eastern england a lot of people spoke a form of English heaving influenced by Norse as they were all descended from Vikings basically, so if the NSE survived into the 1600s then I think there could be a unified Anglo-Danish language, or at least two languages that are very similiar like Danish and Norwegian. This may be wrong but if I remember correctly I think Danish is the third closest language to English after Dutch and Frisian.


Would a North Sea Empire expand into Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Sweden or the Baltic over the medieval period?
 
Would a North Sea Empire expand into Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Sweden or the Baltic over the medieval period?

Probably grab Ireland due to the large Norse pressence and do better job of making them Norse irish rather than Irish Norse.

Wales eventually. Scotland would ne the hardest nut to crack and they might remain much like the otl.

They'd also eventually get Iceland and Greenland and being richer than otl Scandinavian kingdoms and with the right atl persuaders might be able to make a better financed run at Vinland.
 

Driftless

Donor
Would a relatively long lasting empire promote more common language elements between the different parts of the empire? More or less commonality than happened with Norman French vs Saxon in England?

There kind of already was to a lesser extent, I think there were still descendents of the Norse still living in England at the time, and before the advent of the Middle English-era in England, the Late Old-English/Anglo-Saxon language and to a lesser extent Scottish Gaelic did incorporate elements from Old Norse.

Well yes this is what I am thinking, in large sections of Northern and Eastern england a lot of people spoke a form of English heaving influenced by Norse as they were all descended from Vikings basically, so if the NSE survived into the 1600s then I think there could be a unified Anglo-Danish language, or at least two languages that are very similiar like Danish and Norwegian. This may be wrong but if I remember correctly I think Danish is the third closest language to English after Dutch and Frisian.


Would a North Sea Empire expand into Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Sweden or the Baltic over the medieval period?

Probably grab Ireland due to the large Norse pressence and do better job of making them Norse irish rather than Irish Norse.

Wales eventually. Scotland would ne the hardest nut to crack and they might remain much like the otl.

They'd also eventually get Iceland and Greenland and being richer than otl Scandinavian kingdoms and with the right atl persuaders might be able to make a better financed run at Vinland.

With some commonality of language and political connection, might you see an alternative to the Hanseatic League as well?
 
With some commonality of language and political connection, might you see an alternative to the Hanseatic League as well?

I started to think the same thing, surely such a large empire would eventually end up having a large interest in trade with Northern Europe much like the hanseatic league
 
Would a North Sea Empire expand into Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Sweden or the Baltic over the medieval period?

Cnut was tied to the Piasts of Poland by marriage, and trade relations between Medieval Poland and Medieval Denmark go back a long way, so I imagine that the North Sea Empire would be involved in Polish affairs, especially if the Piast kingdom fragments as IOTL.

The North Sea Empire would almost certainly have interests as far as Novgorod or even the Russian Arctic.
 
Is it at all possible that England, Norway and Denmark could have remained united for significantly longer then they did in OTL after the death of Canute? Could the country survive into the early modern period and expand into new land? I read that Canute had some success with creating an Anglo-scandanavian identity so maybe something can be built from this?

I tried searching the forum but couldn't find anything, but if you have a link to a previous discussion let me know

What about having Empress Matilda marry Charles of Flanders, in this case Charles of Flanders might conquer denmark.
 
With the Threats of the Normans to the south and the arduous problems of the time it takes to cross the North sea and the 1 in 5 chance of a ship sinking makes it hard to control an oversea empire.

However if Norse kings had still ruled England but had no land in Scandinavia they could have focused all their attention of the British Isles and cement their rule and maybe even snag the Shetlands and Faeroe.

If this went on and slowly the new Englo-Norse had pushed their way into Scotland and created a 600 year early Great Britain they could have Invaded Ireland and perhaps even try and teach the Normans a lesson or two.

And with the British Isles Strong the Normans would push their attention even more south than they did. Perhaps Norman Invasion of North Africa or will they go and do their own crusade?
 
the arduous problems of the time it takes to cross the North sea and the 1 in 5 chance of a ship sinking

You have to source this claim :rolleyes:, and no, insisting that some of the ships have to go to sea in the worst weather possible, and the least safe way possible aren't a valid reason.
 
You have to source this claim :rolleyes:, and no, insisting that some of the ships have to go to sea in the worst weather possible, and the least safe way possible aren't a valid reason.

Okay maybe not a fifth but a good bit of ships would leave when the weather looks nice but three days into the Voyage and it turns really stormy. Heck when Eric the Red settled Greenland most of the ships going to Greenland got lost.
 
Okay maybe not a fifth but a good bit of ships would leave when the weather looks nice but three days into the Voyage and it turns really stormy. Heck when Eric the Red settled Greenland most of the ships going to Greenland got lost.

There is a big difference between the North Sea and the North Atlantic
 
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