Survival of Catholic Military Orders

How could we have the Teutonic Order and other military orders survive to present day as military orders still? How would it change history? Would they just turn into mercenaries or reclusive monks?

Would be pretty cool if the Orthodox church made made military orders to counter them also? Why did that not happen? Beside the orthodox church being less organized.
 
How could we have the Teutonic Order and other military orders survive to present day as military orders still? How would it change history? Would they just turn into mercenaries or reclusive monks?

Well... You'd likely need to make the various orders much less wealthy. Case in point: the Templars were wiped out in large part because the king of France owed them huge sums of money and it was easier for him to accuse the order and its leaders of various crimes and have them all executed than it was for him to pay his debts.

Also, the Reformation would be a problem for the continued survival of the militant orders. One of the reasons that north European lords supported the Reformation was that it gave them an excuse/opportunity to confiscate church-owned property.

Would be pretty cool if the Orthodox church made made military orders to counter them also? Why did that not happen? Beside the orthodox church being less organized.

I would go with one or more of the Protestant churches establishing and/or maintaining what are ostensibly branches of some of the Militant Orders.
 
Also, the Reformation would be a problem for the continued survival of the militant orders. One of the reasons that north European lords supported the Reformation was that it gave them an excuse/opportunity to confiscate church-owned property.
In fact, IIRC the Teutonic Order was disbanded in OTL since the leader converted to Protestantism and wanted to become a secular ruler. So, the Reformation is likely going to be a barrier to continued temporal rule by military orders.
 
It would have been cool if the Orthodox Church(es) had had their own military orders as well. I wonder why they didn't?
Islam had the concept of the "ghazi", who by his sword cleanses the world of the filth of polytheism, by which was meant the Christian Trinity. Were these holy fighters answerable to the Caliph himself, I wonder? Or did he rely on secular Muslim rulers to provide him with troops?
What if the pagan Lithuanian worshippers of Perkunis had formed a monastic knighthood of their own, to defend their lands and faith against the Teutonic Knights' aggression? Did they have any class resembling knights, or was this solely a Christian concept? I believe the Franks had something like knights, before they accepted Christianity, and the Church used these warriors for its own ends.
 
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What if the pagan Lithuanian worshippers of Perkunis had formed a monastic knighthood of their own, to defend their lands and faith against the Teutonic Knights' aggression? Did they have any class resembling knights, or was this solely a Christian concept?
This little thing called tannenberg shows they dont need knights. But Pagan Crusaders equal awesome.:D
 
I've studied a fair bit of Calvinism and one of the things that struck me is how Catholic it is.

They use a lot of Latin, for example (sola fide, sola gratia, sola scriptura, etc), and some of the Calvinist ideas about marriage and sex strike me as being similar to the Catholic stereotype--the RCC has historically been rather anti-sex (claiming it exists for procreation only), while the Calvinists claim marriage (and sex within it) exists to make points about the relationship between Christ and the Church.

(Although despite the theory, I don't think the Calvinists are nearly as hung up about it. In his book Boy Meets Girl , Charismatic Calvinist Joshua Harris describes how he and his wife sometimes spent entire days in their hotel room during their honeymoon. Wink, wink.)

Perhaps one or more military orders go Protestant and survive that way?
 

Valdemar II

Banned
I've studied a fair bit of Calvinism and one of the things that struck me is how Catholic it is.

They use a lot of Latin, for example (sola fide, sola gratia, sola scriptura, etc), and some of the Calvinist ideas about marriage and sex strike me as being similar to the Catholic stereotype--the RCC has historically been rather anti-sex (claiming it exists for procreation only), while the Calvinists claim marriage (and sex within it) exists to make points about the relationship between Christ and the Church.

(Although despite the theory, I don't think the Calvinists are nearly as hung up about it. In his book Boy Meets Girl , Charismatic Calvinist Joshua Harris describes how he and his wife sometimes spent entire days in their hotel room during their honeymoon. Wink, wink.)

Perhaps one or more military orders go Protestant and survive that way?

Honestly the only one succeding in that is the Teutonians, and they would end up Lutheran.
 

Susano

Banned
In fact, IIRC the Teutonic Order was disbanded in OTL since the leader converted to Protestantism and wanted to become a secular ruler. So, the Reformation is likely going to be a barrier to continued temporal rule by military orders.
No. The secularisation of Prussia did not lead to the Order being disbanded. It was a bit of a "constitutional" mess, but the "Deutschmeister" (the leader of the German recruitment areas and possessions) became new High master, uniting the two positions and the order lived on ehadquartered in Vienna and often led by Habsburgs. Napoleon disbanded it for a time, but it became reestablished after him. The German (Teutonic) Order still exists, but of course is not military anymore.

The Hospitaliers are still around. They've pretty much retreated to owning a couple of buildings in Rome, but they still issue there own passports/stamps/currency and are now essentially a charity, although they have observer status in the UN.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta

Yes, they are the Maltese now. Besides them, with an as good claim to continuity are the Johannites (Johanniter, which is also what the Hospitallers are called in German), which descand from the Bailwick of Brandenburg of the order (ironically, as thegerman order in the later days was often presided over by Habsburgs, the Order of St John was often presided over by Hohenzollerns). They are protestant, though, and in any case, again of course neither order is military.

So, to answer MPs question, there is one such order, and its not the German Order ;)
 
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