Surf's Up Habsburg: A Springtime of Nations Timeline Ver.2

[Van555]

Well, Hello again this may seem Repetitive but I want to have More Plausibility in My timeline and Allow it a fresh start!

What will stay the same:
The Goal and Players
Some of the Extra Parts


What will be New:


A More sensible Point of Departure!

Realistic Travel Times!

No U.S. Wanking!

Saved Documents on word!

Actual Maps on Paint!

More Pictures!

Great Taste!

Less Filling!

South America doing Something!


And much more!


Check it out Later today!

 

[Van555]

Major Differences from the old Timeline

Earlier point of Departure- at Latest 1836
Revised for the 23rd of August- what you will most likely see:

Realistic actions will be taken- No dual Letter!

No Catholic Schism- I think the Pope will give up the ghost after Rome is captured.

The Russians won't just sit there- they'll do Something

The Ottoman's shall be spared!

No Netherlands annexation!

The U.S. Being slightly weaker, or how the U.S Learned to not mess with Latin america as much !

No major war in europe in the 20th century.

Colonial troubles.

Things you won't see

France Going for A Third go in a war It can't win

a Random Cold War!

Mega- U.S.

The French being able blitzing fascist under de Gualle for No Reason

Imperial Mexico

South america not doing Anything!

Germany and friends being perfect

Plans working.

and that's just so far!

I'll post intro later tonight

 

[Van555]

Well here I am again!

Dedication thanks Nivek and all those Bothering to Read

I know It's Wierd to do a Revision so early but my old Timeline was so confuseing even to me that I decided I had to Revise it.

First Part actually up later today!

 

[Nivek]

well thanks for the mention.,,

but again your List of goal are contradictory...

First you want a weaker US(aka a good Usa for the latinos) but later a mega USA

No major war in the 20th century bt france going facist under de gaulle and figthing a war than they know will never win.

again a revisition

And no time travel.. that means automatically ASB

Sorry if being a little a History nazi... that is for my studies in that

 

[Van555]

Gosh darnit, I meant to say I want a weaker U.S

curse me and my inability to right clearly at times!

I'm still confused about time Travel when did screw up those dates to make it seem like I traveled in time.

 

[Van555]

I meant to say that the that things like

France going in a another time after being crushed twice

or a stronger U.S

Were not my goals! and wouldn't happen!

I need to write More clearly

and have more Consistent dates!

 

[Van555]

sorry

Justwanted to say I'm sorry if anyone was expecting an actual update yesterday. I won't Promise anything unless I can deliver, like today I probably will get something out there but I may have too much work.

 

[Van555]

What If? Again!

In our world by 1918 the Austrian Empire of the Habsburgs had been officially dissolved. From that point on no Hapsburg would truely have a say in the affairs of the World or Europe itself. It had been a long decline, argueably starting after 1815. While the congress of Veinna had Preserved Austria's status as a great power it could not ensure it kept it.After being shaken by the Revolutions of '48, Austria struggled to keep its primacy over Germany against an ever more powerful Prussia. It even avoided helping russia in the Crimean war showing the "depths of it's Ingratitude" ruining its honor.

Even then it was not enough to save the empire, It lost its Status as a great power in Europe in multiple wars. First by losing most of it's Italian provinces to Peidmont and France. Then it lost any control it had over the nations of Germany, Which prussia united as the German Empire. After having to share control of its remaining mepire with the hungarians it became a near satellite of germany. It then extended itself into the Balkans, which caused a Goddamned war thier due to serbia and the collapse of roulmelia. After loseing the war it was Partitioned into many weaker nations, by nationalism and internationalism.

So What if before, its declined it leadership had harnessed the power of the nationalism that would destroy in our world. If they had risked it all by devided kingdom into four taking advantage of the sprit of '48. Instead of one Multi ethnic Habsburg empire it became four Habsburg nation-states.
This project is my attempt to answer that question.

 

[Van555]

please comment I am alone here

I have another problem with my brain storming....

what to do with galacia!

It seems like its neccesary to have as hohenzollen throne to get Prussia to come on board as part of Germany.

I mean those of you who paid attention last time, concluded as such.

However there is a problem, Russia needs to be sated...doesn't it.

It seems like Russia would get control of the Kingdom in a succesful 1848 senario, since they will not respond kindly to a revolution against conservatitism.

I guess what my question is how can I get Prussia to join an even nominally Austrian led germany if the sweetener of Galacia is lost to the russians?

 

[Van555]

I will actually start posting this weekend by the way.

so hooray! and I hope somebody reads it

 

[yourworstnightmare]

My suggestion for Habsburg split:

1. Sudetenland and German + Slovenian Austria to Germany (Also Austrian Silesia).
2. Rest of Bohemia-Moravia a separate kingdom in personal union with Austria.
3. Trieste, Gorizia, Triento and Istria to Italy
4. Kingdom of Hungary: Hungary, Slovakia, Transylvania, Banat
5. Kingdom of Croatia: Croatia- Slavonia, Dalmatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina. In a personal union with Hungary
6. Galizia and Bukovina to Russia.

I would probably have Austria collapsing after 1848 though. Perhaps after a failed Ausgleich?

 

[Eurofed]

However there is a problem, Russia needs to be sated...doesn't it.

It seems like Russia would get control of the Kingdom in a succesful 1848 senario, since they will not respond kindly to a revolution against conservatitism.

I guess what my question is how can I get Prussia to join an even nominally Austrian led germany if the sweetener of Galacia is lost to the russians?

Galicia is indeed necessary to win the Prussians over. But Russia does not need to be sated, only delayed for the time the Habsburg need to put their new states into basic shape. In the medium term, war between the Habsburg bloc and Russia is inevitable for various reasons, giving them Galicia is a waste. Various butterflies can justify why Russia is temporary stalemtated. The most obvious is that the new liberal order on their borders makes Russian Poland explode into insurrection. The Russian Army is tied down for an year or so killing Polish insurgents, while Germany, Italy, and Hungary get into shape.

 

[Van555]

Alright I suppose the history of poles indicates that they were not too shy with the timing of their insurrections.

Besides 1848 is a better time than any?

@ Y.W.N that mostly is the plan however I need Galicia in order to allow even the possibility for Prussia to agree to a federal Germany under Hapsburg control

 

[Eurofed]

Alright I suppose the history of poles indicates that they were not too shy with the timing of their insurrections.

Besides 1848 is a better time than any?

Very much so. Basically you may copy and paste the OTL 1863 insurrection into TTL 1848. In the short term, they are doomed to fail, but their sacrifice builds time for their future liberators to get their new houses into shape, so it goes to their long-term advantage. The insurrection shall make the liberation of Poland even more popular as a war goal among the German, Italian, and Hungarian liberals.

 

[Van555]

Would Russia claim the principalities that are now Romania to get something out this debacle? Or would they not bother

Also where is a blank copy of that mosaic map? please it seems easy to use for a first time map.

 

[Eurofed]

Would Russia claim the principalities that are now Romania to get something out this debacle? Or would they not bother

Do you mean Russia asking the Habsburg's assent to annex Moldavia and Wallachia in 1848, in exchange for their passivity towards their restructuring of Europe ? They may easily bother, and the Habsburg would gladly give their assent (with the aim to reconquer them later, of course ). It shall P.O. the Ottomans and Britain, of course. They may or may not do something about it, given the chaos Europe is in, but it shall surely drive a sizable wedge between St. Petersburg and London, and the Ottomans may easily declare war. An insurrection in Poland, another Russo-Turkish war... Russia shall surely be too busy to pay too much attention to what the Habsburg do until it's too late.

Also where is a blank copy of that mosaic map? please it seems easy to use for a first time map.

I once made a mosaic map for a 1848 TL that you may easily adapt (you just need to decide whether to leave Hungary with the Habsburg/Austria UCS color or use the UCS color for Hungary, color Galicia in with UCS color for Poland, paint Rome Italian, and possibly color Romania Russian, if you wish I can do it for you).

 

[Van555]

Interesting? what if the Russians instead of annexing Walachia/Moldavia Create a "ethnic" kingdom of Romania in order to serve as an ethnic barrier in the balkans? maybe to cause instability in Hungary-Illyria(

on second thought they Probably wouldn't want to make an ethnic nation at all as that would both piss of there people in thier own country and the Balkans

At Least by moving the Pod to 1836 I have more room to move in!

Also though I feel I know the answer, Do you think a dare I say stronger U.S make Latin america more stable. or merely lead to more exploitation?

That whats I'm working on now anyway

 

[Eurofed]

Also though I feel I know the answer, Do you think a dare I say stronger U.S make Latin america more stable. or merely lead to more exploitation?

Lands that are directly annexed by the USA surely turn out much the better than OTL in a few decades. Lands that do not, get more quasi-colonial exploitation BUT a stronger USA may project more power and ensure more political stability, and eventually fuel ecnomic development by uS investment spilling over.

I think that in the end, the answer lies in whether you deem most of Latin America's ills depend more on US economic exploitation or its own political instability.

 

[Van555]

What if mexico succeeds in keeping all its territory from 36-45 but then falls apart into multiple states especially to the north... Then the U.S has to deal with a civil war possibly before it's own (Possibly)!

Thoughts?

 

[Eurofed]

What if mexico succeeds in keeping all its territory from 36-45 but then falls apart into multiple states especially to the north... Then the U.S has to deal with a civil war possibly before it's own (Possibly)!

Thoughts?

I utterly despise this cliche. If you want Mexico to fare better, let it do by much more plausible ways, such as achieving a path to greater economic development and political stability within its current and quite sizable borders, such as the Diaz regime evolving to greater social equality through peaceful reform and the chaos of the Mexican Revolution being avoided, or the French invasion butterflied out.