Suppose Vikings invade and set up a polity in 9th Century North Africa - linguistic implications?

Yes, I know that the conditions are somewhat implausible outside of CK2 - this is chiefly for a little worldbuilding exercise.

Basically, the scenario (lots of handwaving here) is this - Vikings serve as mercenaries in North Africa from some Muslim potentates in the area, don't get paid, they mutiny in the 860s CE, seize power and basically become a warrior aristocracy (with a few colonists in a region in the vicinity of Hippo Regius.

In the 900s, Christian missionaries from the Latin West convert the king, let's call him Gunnar, and most of his court, which slowly spreads to the common people, and that by around the 1050s at least a large plurality are Western Christians.

What is the aristocracy likely to speak?
What about the (previously Arabic and Berber, and to a lesser extent, African Romance-speaking) common people likely to speak?
 
Well, the Vandals did it in the 5th century. They were wiped out in the 6th century and, if they had not been in the 6th, they would have been later.

So I think it would have been the same for the vikings. Maghreb was too big a piece to swallow for any power lesser than the byzantine of the muslim empires before the modern ages.
 
How healthy was the Punic language at that point? I can't imagine very much, since evidently that community converted to Islam and were Arabised earlier than others.

So perhaps it looks like a giant Malta? Except in the cities I guess where you might be able to revitalise the African Romance languages.
 
Well, the Vandals did it in the 5th century. They were wiped out in the 6th century and, if they had not been in the 6th, they would have been later.

So I think it would have been the same for the vikings. Maghreb was too big a piece to swallow for any power lesser than the byzantine of the muslim empires before the modern ages.
Not the entire Maghreb, though - what I'm envisioning is from Algiers to Misrata, mostly.
 
How healthy was the Punic language at that point? I can't imagine very much, since evidently that community converted to Islam and were Arabised earlier than others.

So perhaps it looks like a giant Malta? Except in the cities I guess where you might be able to revitalise the African Romance languages.
The Punic language was on its last legs when Augustine was alive. By the 9th century it was buried six feet under.
 
Someone's been playing as Haesteinn of Nantes lately.

Odds are they last for a decade or so and then vanish under a wave of Kharijite Berbers or similar Berber rigorists - Sanhaja if they're in Tunisia or Alger, Zenata if they're around Fes.
 
If Vikings conquered a part of North Africa, they would probably convert to Islam rather than Christianity, unless they were provided with extensive Byzantine support.
 
Like I said - handwave here.

I wonder what would happen if it became a Muslim polity instead?
You'd get the Viking Ummah achievement.

The inevitable wave of angry Berbers might actually come sooner. The Vikings are outsiders and would presumably practice Islam differently. Not only that, they're of a wildly different culture. Unless they totally change every aspect of their culture immediately, eventually some rigorist would invoke takfir on them and you'd get a Berber tribal confederacy sweeping in to remove the kuffar.
 
You'd get the Viking Ummah achievement.

The inevitable wave of angry Berbers might actually come sooner. The Vikings are outsiders and would presumably practice Islam differently. Not only that, they're of a wildly different culture. Unless they totally change every aspect of their culture immediately, eventually some rigorist would invoke takfir on them and you'd get a Berber tribal confederacy sweeping in to remove the kuffar.
Basically - "Purge al-Afariq of the Nasranis and the Nuruni heretics?"
 
The Punic language was on its last legs when Augustine was alive. By the 9th century it was buried six feet under.

It had to have been later than Augustine's day going by the epigraphic evidence from the 4th/5th century that shows that in many regions, it was still well-spoken amongst the general public, especially in rural areas. How well that translates to the state of the language in the 9th century for our POD here, well...
 
Of note is that the Normans of Sicily tried to pull this one when they conquered Tunis and a bunch of other coastal towns in the area. The Almohads ate them within fifteen years.
 
Of note is that the Normans of Sicily tried to pull this one when they conquered Tunis and a bunch of other coastal towns in the area. The Almohads ate them within fifteen years.
Well, yes, but that wasn't necessarily inveitable, and if Sicily wasnt subsequently dragged into Imperial pil8tics and then partitioned between the Trista mara and Angevins then they would have come back sooner or later (after picking of Byzantium and the Franklish states probably). It's a natural target of expansion for Sicily, not least because of all the Arab pirates based out of the area.

Note that the OTL conquest of Sicily was only a few hundred Norman mercenaries. Butterfly the Norman conquest of England, somehow, or redirect it further south to Iberia for instance (OTL Portugal was founded as a breakaway kingdom by Burgundian mercenaries) and go from there.

Perhaps an earlier Manzikert coinciding with an early death for Otto causes Italy to collapse into chaos (well, nore into chaos :p) earlier, causing the Pope to call in the Normans to take out Sicily, and they do well enough that they keep going on a papal-sanctioned rampage across the Mediterranean.
 
Throughout history the Vikings lacked the numbers and high culture to stay apart whereever they went that was already populated, eg- Russia, Normandy, Sicily, England, Ireland. There is no precedent from history to show Viking culture or language being able to survive.
 
I think we all agree that the survival of this state aren't very likely, but there's nothing ASB over its survival, it simply demand that it develop some ways to survive, just as the Normans did. The survival of Normandy was also a near thing, but the Norman called on Danish allies in the early reign of Richard I. So let's say that the Berbers try to throw them into the sea but the king call on Norse allies. Harald Bluetooth again wouldn't be a bad choice, some of their Norse allies are rewarded with land and they bring Christianity with them. This create a minority among the local Norse who are Christians, which push the king toward converting to Christianity.

I'm not sure what survival strategy the Maghreb Norse develop, but we can be sure that, while they're pagan, they're likely raiders and pirates of both Christians and Muslims. Their conversion to Christianity likely lead to this being slowly limited except against Muslims. So I expect that they will own Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, Malta and Balearic islands from their pagan period. I also expect them to push some kind of feudal model on their domains. To deal with the Berbers they will have to have excellent light cavalry, likely mixed with strongly fortified coastal cities, some kind of manor system etc.

Their domains speak a mix of Vulgar Romance, Berber and Semitic with a few Greeks. The Norse will have no wish to integrate into the local culture, like the Normans did. So I expect early on the Norse language will do well. They're also much better able to keep contact with the homeland. Of course down the road they're a small minority. But on the other hand their subjects are a mix of different people. If Norse survive, it will likely do so in a relative limited areas (I could see Malta as a stronghold of the language). Even if it survives spread out all over their empire in small enclaves, the elite have a high chance of adopt some Italian dialect with heavy Norse influence. The Romance and Semitic dialects of the empire will likely be heavily influenced by Norse, but the Semitic will likely also see a large effect from Romance and Berber. Berber will likely be less influenced, but it may also get less influence from Arab.

I expect as the Norse convert, they will begin a slow conversion of their subjects, I expect with the Norse conversion having begun around 1000, there will likely be no more Muslims left by 1300 outside a small minority, most will have converted, while the last stubborn one will have been expelled.

A interesting factor are that Morocco and Muslim Spain will be isolated from the rest of the Muslim world. Linguistic I imagine that one result will be that Morocco will be Berber speaking, with only a small Arab speaking minority. While Morocco will stay Muslim unless conquered, I also expect that Morocco will be much more European in culture, as they're isolated from the rest of the Muslim world and have to become a integrated part of the European political scene to have Christian allies against their Christian enemies.

The West African slave trade will likely also suffer, the medieval Europeans doesn't have the same demand for African slaves as the Arabs did. This will also limit the spread of Islam in Sahel. Of course with a less developed slave trade, the Europeans will lack slave trade infrastructures, when they set up the Transatlantic Slave Trade. This is interesting in itself. We may also see better state structure developing in West Africa. If this fall together with the spread of Catholicism in the region in the Mediaval Age. It may also result in the area being much better integrated into Europe with the benefit that gives. Maybe early modern western Africa as a kind of African Russia, somewhat undeveloped, backward compared to early modern western Europe, but seen as part of a greater Christian/"European" civilisation?
 
@Jürgen:

Frankly, I think nothing could be less likely to happen. The conversion of an cadre of Norse raiders to Christianity in the solidly Muslim Maghreb would be a death sentence. We're talking a few thousand raiders (and later this proposed royal retinue) at most, in a population orders of magnitude greater. And the Berbers and Arabs of the region are not without naval expertise and military skill of their own. Depending on the time period, there are numerous factions who would be thrilled to exploit the division caused by these Christian Norse and in the process annihilate them.

Their "pagan period" would end the very moment they arrived in North Africa, if they had any sense. Why would they not want to integrate into the local culture? In almost every other place they arrived, the Norse showed every interest in assimilation and the cultures of their neighbors - a trait of Norse culture seems to be a xenophilic curiosity which makes conversion easier if anything. Expect within a generation Norse-born raiders named Muhammad, for example. The Berbers of the interior would probable eventually overrun and further assimilate these coastal enclaves. So it goes. There might be a few Christians in North Africa as a result of this - but they would be dhimmi, not converting everyone en masse to Christianity.

One funny thing about your idea is that it might lead to a Norse prince converting to Islam... which might have fascinating implications down the line.
 
Their domains speak a mix of Vulgar Romance, Berber and Semitic with a few Greeks. The Norse will have no wish to integrate into the local culture, like the Normans did. So I expect early on the Norse language will do well. They're also much better able to keep contact with the homeland. Of course down the road they're a small minority. But on the other hand their subjects are a mix of different people. If Norse survive, it will likely do so in a relative limited areas (I could see Malta as a stronghold of the language). Even if it survives spread out all over their empire in small enclaves, the elite have a high chance of adopt some Italian dialect with heavy Norse influence. The Romance and Semitic dialects of the empire will likely be heavily influenced by Norse, but the Semitic will likely also see a large effect from Romance and Berber. Berber will likely be less influenced, but it may also get less influence from Arab.

Why would they speak an Italian language instead of a local Romance dialect? Unless they're holding a lot of Italian land, why not just speak the language of the local economic ruling classes? Which would first off be Arabic, and then at a distant second probably African Romance dialects.

The West African slave trade will likely also suffer, the medieval Europeans doesn't have the same demand for African slaves as the Arabs did. This will also limit the spread of Islam in Sahel. Of course with a less developed slave trade, the Europeans will lack slave trade infrastructures, when they set up the Transatlantic Slave Trade. This is interesting in itself. We may also see better state structure developing in West Africa. If this fall together with the spread of Catholicism in the region in the Mediaval Age. It may also result in the area being much better integrated into Europe with the benefit that gives. Maybe early modern western Africa as a kind of African Russia, somewhat undeveloped, backward compared to early modern western Europe, but seen as part of a greater Christian/"European" civilisation?

A lot of the Sahel was effectively converted through Morocco. So unless the Norse destroy/convert Morocco, this is still gonna happen, since Morocco will still have a demand for slaves. Now a Sahel divided between Christian, Muslim, and pagan would be very interesting, and conceivably possible.
 
Interestingly enough, it seems, if we take the Arabic chroniclers at their word (with a dose of clues from Augustine a few centuries earlier) African Romance was rather similar to Sardinian. Al-Idrisi contends that the Sardinians were culturally very similar to the Berbers, to the point where he (probably incorrectly) assumes that the Sardinians are descended from Romanized Berber colonists. And Augustine hints that the way Latin was spoken in his part of the Empire is very similar to how Sardinian developed.

And like I said, I know it's implausible (though maybe not if they conquer Sicily first, then move south to exploit any stability issues among the remaining Aghlabids?) - but I was interested in the linguistic implications of such a turn of events. Would the ruling classes adopt Arabic (as the regional lingua franca) or something else?
 
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