Successor of Richard II

tuareg109

Banned
Actually there was somewhat of a precedent set, but not for the case of a daughter's husband.

As a reason for persecuting the Hundred Years War, the English gave out that the French crown should have passed to Edward III through his mother, and not to his cousin of Valois.

To avoid being all hypocritical about it (which I'm well aware that Medieval lords didn't care much about in any case) during the time when the war is being persecuted, I'd say the precedent points to Roger Mortimer, son of Edmund and Philippa, becoming king. Now the issue is finding a POD in which he survives 1398 (the year he died) in order to become king. He was young and in good physical shape, so he'd apparently be no mean king.
 
Actually there was somewhat of a precedent set, but not for the case of a daughter's husband.

Which is why we look at a daughter's son or grandson when talking the Mortimer claim.

As a reason for persecuting the Hundred Years War, the English gave out that the French crown should have passed to Edward III through his mother, and not to his cousin of Valois.

To avoid being all hypocritical about it (which I'm well aware that Medieval lords didn't care much about in any case) during the time when the war is being persecuted, I'd say the precedent points to Roger Mortimer, son of Edmund and Philippa, becoming king. Now the issue is finding a POD in which he survives 1398 (the year he died) in order to become king. He was young and in good physical shape, so he'd apparently be no mean king.

He died in a skirmish OTL, so have him avoid eating an arrow (or whatever it was).

Young, valiant (apparently), energetic, and apparently reasonably popular and charismatic.
 
I'm thinking of making a TL on this. Richard crushes the rebellion and kills Bolingbroke. Thus, the Lancaster are excluded. Richard is also distrustful of the Duke of York due to his involvement with Bolingbroke and turns to Mortimer. maybe Mortimer could be named a Duke. Then when Richard dies, there is King Edmund I Mortimer(or Roger I if the PoD is his survival).

York was originally left as Protector of the Realm while Richard was in Ireland and only joined the rebellion due to his inability to defeat Bolingbroke (and perhaps out of a sense of duty to protect his brother Gaunts inheritance). I highly doubt he supported the rebellion out of desire to replace Richard and indeed York's son Aumale was the favourite relation and likely heir of Richard. I would imagine York would also be needed as part of the royal army if Richard is to crush Bolingbroke.

However if Richard is long lived it depends which of the Plantagenet youth Richard favours which is up for discussion. For instance Henry of Monmouth was taken to Ireland with Richard and treated quite well, so the idea that Richard 'adopts' one of the younger members of his family could be plausible.
 
I highly doubt he supported the rebellion out of desire to replace Richard and indeed York's son Aumale was the favourite relation and likely heir of Richard. I would imagine York would also be needed as part of the royal army if Richard is to crush Bolingbroke.

Is the part about Aumale really true? I've heard it casually so I'm wondering....
 
Richard would likely decide to follow straight promigenture instead of bypassing second and third son for fourth son.
 
Richard would likely decide to follow straight promigenture instead of bypassing second and third son for fourth son.

Straight primogeniture gives us the Mortimer line - the descendants of Edward III's second son.

Whether the alternative candidates accept that is really worth asking about.
 
Straight primogeniture gives us the Mortimer line - the descendants of Edward III's second son.

Whether the alternative candidates accept that is really worth asking about.

Well, if Roger Mortimer becomes King, the York's would be tied to the Mortimers through Anne Mortimer.
 
Is the part about Aumale really true? I've heard it casually so I'm wondering....

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times in books and it seems fairly logical.

Mortimer was seen as a threat by Richard, as he was received with a 'rapturous' welcome for the Shrewsbury Parliament in 1398, shortly before his death and as has been mentioned Richard's failure to lift him to a dukedom suggests at minimum he saw him as unworthy of the throne and at most actively disliked him.

Richard and Bolingbroke had their obvious problems and Richard must have expected to outlive Gaunt, York and Gloucester, which leaves Aumale as the only acceptable member of the family. Aumale was certainly in Richard's court clique, and was involved in the abortive plots to restore Richard which suggests a certain level of affection (even if Aumale apparently betrayed the conspiracy to Henry)
 
Actually, it is Anne of Bohemia that has a reproductive problem or infertile many of her female relatives in her father side were infertile.
 
If Richard II lived for another 5 years, there's a reasonable chance of him having a child (ie Isabelle Valois making it to about 16). In the OTL, his second wife Isabelle Valois was fertile and had a daughter; her mother had 8 children, and most of her other sisters had children including her sister Catherine who had at least 5 kids by two marriages. It's not a sure thing, but if it didn't happen it would be on account of Richard being sterile.
 
If Aumule becomes King, there could be a succession war with the Mortimers.

Made doubly interesting by the closeness of the Percys and the Mortimers, which given Aumales position as Warden of one of the northern marches could be a spark for civil war, similar to the Neville-Percy conflict in the 1450s
 
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