Successful Sealion?

You missed out that the RAF pilots all get chronic airsickness and the Army need new boots so cant march anywhere.....:cool:

True, but a magnificently incompetent Fighter Command and a blown Dunkirk evacuation can weaken the RAF and the Army. What else but ASB's can fritter away the Royal Navy? It's not like Germany had a Fleet Air Arm worthy of the name.:rolleyes:

BTW, maybe I missed it but has anyone else gone over in depth the 1975 Sandhurst Sealion wargame? The one that showed Sealion to be an exercise on how to slaughter troops on the beaches?:confused:
 
Long story short, in 1940 barring a complete British Political collapse- No.

!941 or beyond, if the German made it a number #1 national priority and were serious about it, maybe. Course the problem with that is just what is Stalin up during this time?
 
smurat91, a large portion of the French fleet was actually in British ports. Start your assumption with none of those ships are available to the Axis under any circumstances.
 
Long story short, in 1940 barring a complete British Political collapse- No.

!941 or beyond, if the German made it a number #1 national priority and were serious about it, maybe. Course the problem with that is just what is Stalin up during this time?

Stalin's plans were for war in 1942.
 
Long story short, in 1940 barring a complete British Political collapse- No.

!941 or beyond, if the German made it a number #1 national priority and were serious about it, maybe. Course the problem with that is just what is Stalin up during this time?

1941? The Germans aren't ready considering the state of the British Army in England by the Spring. 1942? Stalin's come a'knockin'. 1943? USAAF units now strong enough that combined with the RAF Sealion is killer whale food.
 
This is probably as good a time as any to ask this question of our UK members. Yes, England is an island with a huge coastline. But it's my understanding that a lot of this was unsuited for invasion (cliffs, unsuitable terrain, etc.). And ports were too well defended to directly assault. Exactly what areas on the Channel side of England had beaches suitable for Sealion? And what were their defenses (I would assume as the most likely targets they would get the highest priority for defenses)?
 
I don't know probably Folkstone, but there aren't really that many options close to France (that is the Kent area) too many cliffs, I suppose you could attack across from Holland to Suffolk and land somewhere like Aldeborugh, but while it's flat, it's a bloody sight longer to make the crossing (bye bye Jerry). Add in the fact that the Army was busy making ready to make life nasty for anyone who tried it and the craptastic invasion fleet and you have a curbstomp pretty much anywhere Germany tries it. Hell even without the navy half the Sealion fleet would probably end up on the bottom of the channel (River barges I ask you:rolleyes:)
 
This is probably as good a time as any to ask this question of our UK members. Yes, England is an island with a huge coastline. But it's my understanding that a lot of this was unsuited for invasion (cliffs, unsuitable terrain, etc.). And ports were too well defended to directly assault. Exactly what areas on the Channel side of England had beaches suitable for Sealion? And what were their defenses (I would assume as the most likely targets they would get the highest priority for defenses)?

About the only believable area is between Dover and Portsmouth (not all of it, but a reasonable number of beaches)
Trouble is, you cant get too near Dover to the east, or Portsmouth to the west (unless you REALLY want to give the RN Xmas early!), so its a fairly narrow front.
To make it a bit more difficult, the beaches in this area require a very shallow draught (the tide goes out by a LONG way on pretty much all of them, the beaches are all very shallow), which makes life so much more difficult for an improvised landing craft.
The beaches were defended (nothing like the Atlantic coast, but barbed wire, some obstacles), and the defences steadily improved as time went on. There are Home Guard troops available everywhere, and regulars on anything vagualy resembling a port facility. All ports were set up for demolition.

East Anglia is easier for beaching, but you then get the problem of a long crossing (this time the RN based at Chatham and Harwich think you), plus the fact that, well, unless you like cabbages there isnt really anything in East Anglia for a long way.
Anything west of Portsmouth is again running into the RN based in Portsmouth and Plymouth...and there arent that many suitable landing beaches in the West country either.

Whosever designed the British Isles obviously didnt want visitors...:D
 
Peter Tsouras came up with some version of Operation Sealion that was, at least in my mind, believable. The POD is that in January of 1940, Manstein produces his own plan for the Operation, much to the chagrin of the Kreigsmarine, which is approved by Hitler and most of the Heer. However, even then, it is a tactical failure, and only succeeds because the British government collapses upon itself. I wish I had the exact information on the Operation though.
 
The German army intended to treat the Channel like a large river and throw themselves across, but as Halder observed the method of "throwing" themselves across required the use of barges that would cross the Channel at a SLOWER speed than Juliius Caesar two millennia before!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Peter Tsouras came up with some version of Operation Sealion that was, at least in my mind, believable. The POD is that in January of 1940, Manstein produces his own plan for the Operation, much to the chagrin of the Kreigsmarine, which is approved by Hitler and most of the Heer. However, even then, it is a tactical failure, and only succeeds because the British government collapses upon itself. I wish I had the exact information on the Operation though.

Ah. So the invasion fails, and then the British government collapses (and presumably surrenders)
Thats a whole new definition of believable, that is!!! :rolleyes:
 
The German army intended to treat the Channel like a large river and throw themselves across, but as Halder observed the method of "throwing" themselves across required the use of barges that would cross the Channel at a SLOWER speed than Juliius Caesar two millennia before!

Somewhere, a dead Praefectus Fabrum, pickaxe lying at his side, is smiling to himself, as is a Praefectus Classis. Good old Roman engineering!
 
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