Successful reconquest of Roman Africa in the 460's?

Established in 435, the Vandal Kingdom of North Africa wasn't particularly powerful, and its base of power was small. It seems like its entire existence was dumb luck. I say this because they were luckily enough to be invited to the province by the Roman governor attempting to use their power for personal gain, lucky enough to secure a great treaty with Valentinian III keeping them their, and lucky enough for the Romans to be distracted enough elsewhere not to extinguish 20,000 of them (Procopius says 80k, but that's doubtful) in their richest coastal province without a fleet. It's dumb luck that the isolated Arian Germanic people were able to hold on to the province and that the Roman expeditions were incompetent. There may have been some tactical genius by the Vandals and missteps by the Romans, but they were certainly lucky.

In the 460's, Western Emperor Majorian organized a large invasion fleet and army, but was spectacular routed pre-emptively in Spain, and a massive Roman fleet was destroyed at Cape Bon by Vandals in Roman ships. Some sources claim this invasion, funded by the East and manned by the West, was the largest naval invasion in antiquity. It seems incredible that it failed so spectacularly against a foe in such a perilous position, however good a Vandal warrior was. The Vandals would go mostly unchallenged in their rule of Africa until they are finally pushed over by Belisaurius in 50 years later.

Had the tides turned differently, and Roman rule to Africa was restored, what could've gone differently? Another Germanic tribe almost certainly wouldn't have been able to as easily conquer the province. The Western Empire would not have a barbarian fleet raiding its coastal cities and disrupting its economy. And a major source of food, trade, manpower, and tax revenue for the empire would not be lost. By 468, the Hunnic threat had dissipated. Would a restoration of stable Roman rule in Africa pave the way for restorations of other barbarian-overrun provinces?

Below: a simplified map of the empire in 460.
Roman_Empire_460_AD.png
 
Last edited:
How would Anthemius deal with Ricimer? Without knowing this it s hard to tell what would happen,but with the resources of Africa and the leadership of competent men like Marcellinus, I think that a partial restoration would be possible like it was 10 years before the POD. Maybe after Africa the Romans could focus of gallia, given that they still control part of it
 
Well, if Ricimer's plot to overthrow Majorian had failed, he certainly would've been put to death, and Majorian could've been a successful emperor, remembered for his reconquest of Hispania and Africa. But if Majorian had succeeded in his conquest, rather than being left with a disbanded army, Ricimer wouldn't ever have had the same opportunity to behead and overthrow the emperor in the first place. In such scenario, Anthemius likely never becomes emperor at all.
 
The problem isn't as much tactical and about leadership than strategical : that the expedition planned by Majorian didn't went anywhere says a lot about the capacity of WRE and at this point, only a significant support from Constantinople and its fleet, or a dependence on foedi could get things done

Assuming that in 460's Romans and their auxiliaries takes back Carthage and the "Vandalic sors" meaning the lands in Proconcular Africa that Genseric directly took over (the rest of Africa being still under its direct authority but with fewer changes) Vandals wouldn't leave Africa and at best would be pushed back to the limits of their earlier foedus, in no small part because WRE heavily depended on these as military resources.

Meaning that either the control over the region region is militarily supported trough ERE's resources and giving Constantinople defiance over rulers of the WRE, it would probably lead to a de facto (and soon de jure) incorporation of Africa within Constantinople's jurisdiction; either Vandals would probably ending up taking most of it at the first noticable crisis as Goths did in Spain IOTL after having been reduced by Majorian. Arguably, in the second case, it's hard to imagine Vandals would be able to pull their influence as importantly on Romano-Berbers than IOTL.

Of course the first case brings more chances and allohistorical possibilities, the least not being that an earlier integration of Africa within ERE would prevent the relative decline of the province I mentioned in another thread, following Justinian conquest. Furthermore, it would give Constantinople yet another foot in Central Romania, opening the possibility of swallowing up Italia at some point much more easily.

Note that while the loss of fiscal revenue was a big problem, there was no reason to think Vandalic conquest provoked a food shortage : at the contrary, Genseric seems to have maintained annona to Italy.

Regarding Majorian, his standard strategy was to play Barbarians against other Barbarians (which was what Aetius and most of WRE rulers with a modicum of skill did) and forcing them into obedience but never crushing them : in short, it was an expedient due to military need and limited logistics.
And even during Majorian's reigns Ricimer already had too much control on imperium to really accept a too powerful and too monarchical emperor, especially an emperor whom rule depended more or less heavily from Constantinople's good will.
It should be pointed that Ricimer's power came from having a large network connection with foedi and Barbarians in Roman Army. Even if he dies, you'd likely end up with yet another Romano-Barbarian commander-in-chief especially with a ERE backed emperor.

As for Anthemius ITTL, its direct rule was essentially limited to Italy and Provence at this point, and even there he was in an opposition with Ricimer and a significant part of Italo-Roman elites (due to his semi-paganism). Giving he wouldn't be able to count on ERE on this, I doubt he would be able to defeat Euric.

At this point, WRE is more or less toasted and it's a matter of when, not if, it would meet its end.
 
Last edited:
I don t agree with some points:
The expedition led by Majorian didn t failed for lack of resources, the fact that the emperor himself had recovered part of Gaul and Spain means that the problems was more about properly use the available resources while avoiding internal obstacle.
About the fate of the vandal I suppose that a successful expedition would also realize the need to protect the reconquest instead of just going home leaving Africa ready to be once again conquered by foreigners so I would exclude a second vandal conquest. About the administrative issue I think that the ere will trust Anthemius enough (he was appointed wremperor by Constantinople) to give him the administration of Africa.
 
The expedition led by Majorian didn t failed for lack of resources
Which is not what I said, but that it was never attempted on the same grounds again due to the lack of resources, especially naval ones. The effort he did to rebuild a noticeable fleet (around 300 ships, possibly equal to Vandal fleet) was quite important, and with the depletion of ressources at this point, never was attempted after it got torched down.

About the fate of the vandal I suppose that a successful expedition would also realize the need to protect the reconquest instead of just going home leaving Africa ready to be once again conquered by foreigners so I would exclude a second vandal conquest.
It simply doesn't fit Majorian (and Roman) strategy so far : every Majorian victory was reliant on new recruitment of Barbarians, and each victory against rebel foedi was to put them back into original territories. There's simple no ground (either strategical or political) to assume it would be different for Africa, for the sake of it being Africa.
The notion that Barbarians were "foreigners" is debatable, at least in a modern sense. While clearly (politically and institutionally wise) from Romans, they were an integrated part of western Romania situation since the later part of IVth century (arguably, the settlement of western fedi was recent, but not the concept). Again, I've to point the systematic use of foedi trough noticeable campaigns for virtually all the Vth century.

About the administrative issue I think that the ere will trust Anthemius enough (he was appointed wremperor by Constantinople) to give him the administration of Africa.
This is not about trust, not entierely, but about political realities.
At the point ERE's fleet is the key keeping Africa as part of Romania, ERE will decide what's happening there. While Anthemius could have a formal power over it, it would be up to Constantinople to decide who are the regional rulers.
Now, yes, there's a trust problem : less towards Antheius (that was, after all, a semi-client of Constantinople) but on Italo-Roman and Barbaro-Romans elites that clearly had the upper hand in Ravenna, and that would likely put an end to Anthemius' rulership at the first opportunity as IOTL.
 
Last edited:
Well assuming that the ere cede Africa to Anthemius ( I think that the general terms of the expedition of 468 were discussed before it and that the wre was supposed to benefit from it), he will have the means to attempt the defence of his rule against the aristocracy and Ricimer (not sure he would win but maybe an alternate battle of Rome could have ended in a different way). Otherwise it would make more sense for the ere to absorb the entire west (instead of only Africa), but this would just contradict the policies of indirectly controlling the West through western colleagues dependant on the support of the east. Doable but as I said it would be a sudden change of ere policy, and I wouldn’t exclude at this point some resistance from western elites against direct rule from Constantinople. About the vandals I wouldn’t trust them, so in my opinion it would be better to relocate them somewhere else (but from Africa this could be difficult) or try to split the vandals into minor group each with its own chief. Otherwise what would prevent them from once again marching toward Carthage?
Leaving aside all these arguments, I would like to face another question: is the West really lost at this point or could an extraordinary recovery be possible? The wre had lots of problems, but I am of the opinion that even with such a late POD it would be possible to avoid the total collapse of the western empire. Totally reverting what happened in the last century could be beyond Anthemius’ possibilities, but with Africa once again in Roman hands (with all the due considerations about an effective western rule there) and with the addition of Italy (which is not garbage if properly administered) the western Romans can once again start to breath.
 
I’d like to offer a counter possibility to the western elites balking at domination from Constantinople: A distant Emperor is less likely to be messing around in their affairs, and more likely to keep the peace in the process.
 
Well assuming that the ere cede Africa to Anthemius
Which, giving Anthemius doesn't have the naval capacities to control Africa is essentially moot : whoever is put in charge in Carthage would de facto answer to Constantinople until a possible recover by Vandals.

( I think that the general terms of the expedition of 468 were discussed before it and that the wre was supposed to benefit from it)
It's really debatable that Ravenna was supposed to be the main beneficer of the operation : it was first tought and planned by Constantinople, especially as the ERE army went directly for Africa (one army in Proconsularis and another in Libya) while Marcellinus was tasked with Sicily. Anthemius own forces really played a minor role there. In fact, reading at Procopius' De Bello, we can read this.

Now before this time Leon had already appointed and sent Anthemius, as Emperor of the West, a man of the senate of great wealth and high birth, in order that he might assist him in the Vandalic war.
Which seems to stress the auxiliary role of Anthemius.

As for Marcellianus...
Now there was in Dalmatia a certain Marcellianus, one of the acquaintances of Aetius and a man of repute, who, after Aetius had died in the manner told above,no longer deigned to yield obedience to the emperor, but beginning a revolution and detaching all the others from allegiance, held the power of Dalmatia himself, since no one dared encounter him. But the Emperor Leon at that time won over this Marcellianus by very careful wheedling, and bade him go to the island of Sardinia, which was then subject to the Vandals.
There, we don't have any mention of Anthemius' authority over Marcellianus (who had the second most important role in the operation), while Leo is.
Now, I may miss something by ignoring or overlooking sources : If you have some of these supporting the idea that Anthemius had a major or equal role and would have taken over Africa. I'd be happy to read them.

But so far, I think this is assumed, rather than supposed, while the idea Constantinople had the upper hand there and planned to take Africa maybe not for itself alone but at the very least partially so hold and is supported by sources.
And even if the whole thing was all about WRE, you'd have a great gap between objectives and geostrategical reality : meaning regardless of Anthemius' ambitions, he can't really control Africa.

he will have the means to attempt the defence of his rule against the aristocracy
He wouldn't have more the means to do so and neither had any emperor in the last decades of the WRE. Africa isn't a magic piggy bank that resolves the problems of late WRE, especially when the plundering of Africa would at least delay the fiscal results. But more than that, Anthemius' rule was mostly supported trough ERE, which tended to be rejected by both Barbaro-Romans and Italo-Romans at this point as a more or less illegitimate intervention. This is not something that could be resolved by just taking Africa back.

Otherwise it would make more sense for the ere to absorb the entire west (instead of only Africa), but this would just contradict the policies of indirectly controlling the West through western colleagues dependent on the support of the east.
At this point, we're no longer talking of colleagues, but de facto clients or, if the bluntness of the situation is a bit too much, "junior colleague". And yes, eventually the only real way for a Roman Italy to survive politically is to be swallowed up by Constantinople because it's either that or being far too dependent on foedi and Barbarians until the day there's no much to compromise with.

About the vandals I wouldn’t trust them
We have to work with the contemporary perspective and limitations rather than out own aposteriori feelings : if not, we might as well label every WI "You woke up as xxxx one morning" and leave at this, honestly.
The harsh reality of Late Roman Empire is the lack of manpower (especially qualified manpower) in military matters and the constant reliance over Barbarians since the late IVth century. You couldn't ignore this, as you couldn't ignore gravity.

so in my opinion it would be better to relocate them somewhere else (but from Africa this could be difficult
Which is yet another reason why they would be put back to original limits in Numidia and coastal central Africa.

or try to split the vandals into minor group each with its own chief
That's assuming that Vandals have no conception of unity, dynastic kingship and overall common political identity; while they pretty much had this since the late IVth century., and are overall entirely passive in their self-conception.
Of course, as soon as Romans would leave and if this kind of, I'm sorry to say, insane plan is pulled off in paper; it would return to normal.

Otherwise what would prevent them from once again marching toward Carthage?
Nothing, but Constantinople's capacities. As nothing prevented Goths, after Majorian, to take back most of southern Gaul and Spain. A nothing prevented Burgondians to go south as well. Etc. Etc.
Really, there's nothing complicated there : WRE depended far too much of Barbarians militarily that they couldn't make foedi disappear and had to live with. If it helps you, think of it as the lesser of two evils.

is the West really lost at this point or could an extraordinary recovery be possible?
The West really was too far gone : most if it escaped imperial control and the regions among these that still remotely acknowledged imperial authority were de facto independent, as Marcellinus' Illyria. The only thing that mostly held things together was Constantinople's arbitration and even that wasn't really enough.
Giving that Africa is going to enter Constantinople's sphere regardless on the when and who, giving that Illyria was already in it, Italy couldn't stand on its own eternally. At best, WRE is swallowed up by ERE and the Roman Empire is unified on a much better position than with Justinian conquests.

I’d like to offer a counter possibility to the western elites balking at domination from Constantinople: A distant Emperor is less likely to be messing around in their affairs, and more likely to keep the peace in the process.
The main problem there is that both Barbarians and Italo-Romans wanted a WREmperor at this point, or at the very least a vice-emperor. Both because the imperial court was the essential source of honores and upper social promotion, Italo-Romans out of patriotism. Anthemius was rejected partially because it was imposed by the West and because he was "a Greek".Things changed in the VIth century, especially out of Ostrogothic technical primacy in western Romania, but at this point a distant emperor is really not the first choice.
It would happen, sooner or later, granted : either as IOTL or with Constantinople making a bid of ending the junior regional collegiality (altough it's possible we see the maintain of a junion non-descript collegiality with more systematical co-emperors)
 

Deleted member 114175

Which is yet another reason why they would be put back to original limits in Numidia and coastal central Africa.
If the Vandals were conquered in 468 and resettled into Numidia and Mauretania, how might their relocated kingdom develop? The Vandal population by then was probably higher than during the initial conquest, and Numidia was less Romanized and less populous than Carthage, so ironically, maybe the Vandals could leave a more significant legacy in the region than in our timeline. They probably become Berberized over the years but leave influence on local toponymy.
 
If the Vandals were conquered in 468 and resettled into Numidia and Mauretania, how might their relocated kingdom develop?
Taking this as a base. It depends how well Africa is held.
With enough control, it means expansion possibilities, at least in a first time, are rather to be found in the West, especially in case of an imperially sanctioned piracy and commerce raiding against Suevi, Goths and WREmperors in conflict with Constantinople. Basically, Vandals expanding on Romano-Berbers, at least on the coast, and taking on Balearics and possibly part of Spain. It would still be problematic for Constantinople ITTL, as a possible local threat.
If it's badly held, on the other hand, Vandals are the best candidates to simply take Proconsularis and Byzacene back, but wouldn't be as hegemonic IMO than they were historically : they would have to compete with Barbaro-Romans out of a more chaotic Africa and probably limited to the coastal region as they were historically only in the early VIth. The possibility for a Berbero-Roman ensemble in Africa really increase : see the first part of this post for details.

Of course, both are interesting, but the first possibility is probably more fit to debate there.

The Vandal population by then was probably higher than during the initial conquest, and Numidia was less Romanized and less populous than Carthage
Romanisation is a complex process that can go from creolisation to straight-up acculturation, usually more of a mix of both to various degree (rarely up to the max). Berbers themselves (at least "inner" Berbers) were themselves romanised in the sense they were integrated to the late imperial culture and when the empire collapsed in the West, took up on it not unlike other Barbarians did in Europe. So, really, Romanity wouldn't be in peril ITTL Africa, as long we don't expect a classical Rome to sprung out of the box.

They probably become Berberized over the years but leave influence on local toponymy.
In the aforentioned case of a Vandal kingdom in Numidia/Mauretania, some Berberisation is indeed possible in the sense being part of the Mauri ensemble that often produced large coalitions/confederation from eastern Algeria to eastern Morroco IOTL. How much Vandals would take the advantage there is anybody guess, altough I suppose Constantinople and Goths/Suevi would try limitating its scope at least in Mauretania (in its strictest sense). How successful would they be is anybody's guess (but in the case of a Roman Empire firmly swallowing up central provinces right from the late Vth/early VIth, it's likely that Proconsularis/Byzacene won't be a playground for Vandalo-Berbero-Romans except in times of crisis). A stronger differenciation between "Inner" and "Outer" Berers isn't to exclude, due to Vandalic political presence.
 

Deleted member 67076

Regarding Majorian, his standard strategy was to play Barbarians against other Barbarians (which was what Aetius and most of WRE rulers with a modicum of skill did) and forcing them into obedience but never crushing them : in short, it was an expedient due to military need and limited logistics.
Could Majorian not at the minimum resettle the Vandals far away from Africa in order to secure control of Africa?
 
Could Majorian not at the minimum resettle the Vandals far away from Africa in order to secure control of Africa?
The immediate dilemma would be how to keep Africa secure with the current military situation.
Would have he settled Gothic, Suebic or Burgundian troops that made up the large part of the army?
Would have he trusted Berbers that were in agreement with Vandals?
Would have he put there the Dalmatian troops which were more or less the last of non-Barbarian troops he could rely on?

And how many of the limited resources of the WRE would have been used to resettle literally ten of thousands of people elsewhere in Romania while requesting the landowning elites of the resettling region to make place for them, which would be bound to backfire?

Or, more probably IMO, he would have followed the same modus operandi that he and most of his ambitious enough predecessors did, meaning putting back Vandals to their original limits in Africa, because there wasn't much other choice safe attempting ethnic cleansing?
 
Is that an actual option?
...No.
Not only it would divert resources for the lulz of "blood for the blood throne", not only it would make virtually ALL foedi and Romano-Barbarians (as any sane Roman) leaving and attacking Majorian the Maniac because they were obviously the next ones, but such thing was totally out the scope of Late Roman mentality.

Justinian did it (granted he had more resources).
He didn't.
Vandals were either integrated within Imperial army (and used in Italy or in Persian borders), either fleeing to Spain, and in majority just remained in Africa while loosing what remained of their wealth after decades of Berber raiding and advance.
Ostrogoths remained in Italy where they more or less merged with Danubian peoples and eventually Lombards.
 
I am not excluding the possibility you suggest about direct rule of Africa from Constantinople, the lack of mention of Anthemius however is more a proof of his weak contribution to the expedition rather than a proof of his extraneity. Beside an African campaign, in my opinion, would require a certain degree of logistical support from any power based in Italy. This maybe doesn’t prove anything about the destiny of Africa but maybe the wre involvement was not so insignificant. However I want to discuss this from another perspective: the Roman were used to the idea of multiple emperors,probably they also recognised the need occasionally. Even one century after the POD the Romans considered the idea of dividing the empire (in a time where the West was reduced to Africa and part of Italy). By keeping Africa for himself, Leo basically undermine Anthemius’position (his man) and the whole idea of sending someone trustworthy (albeit subordinate) to the western provinces. I don t exclude the fact that an ambitious emperor could wish to rule the entire empire by itself, but we shouldn’t apply this principle to every single Roman ruler. The questions here is would the addition of Africa and later Italy (with the connected risk of usurper and separatist coming from the West) be more beneficial to the ere than a loyal and stable wre whose emperor has been sent there for exactly this purpose? Even in the first case I would bet that soon someone else would provide to divide the empire once again ( and Africa would surely follow Italy in this new wre).

About the stability of Anthemius’ rule, I can only agree with you that Africa wouldn t solve every single problem, but things would surely take a different path after the recovery of Africa (assuming that

Rome instead of Constantinople benefit from the reconquest,otherwise there wouldn t be many changes) and a more lucky Anthemius could face a different destiny (an alternate conflict between the emperor and his magister militum would be even more interesting here). Again I am only making suppositions like the wre benefiting from the conquest, little damage to the province and maybe the recovery of the treasure of the vandals.

Speaking about the foreignness of Anthemius how would leo be better? He is equally an eastern but more distant and probably unable to keep Italy under constant control.

Finally about the vandals, let’s follow your point: an eastern Roman ruled Africa means no need to rely so heavily on foederati for the defence of the province ( the eastern army is still facing the problem of barbarians inside the army but they should be making progresses) so why keeping them alive? I am not suggesting a genocide of the vandals but something similar to what happened after the vandalic war: the end of an indipendente vandal kingdom, with the survivors forced to join the army or relocated on the other side of the empire.

If we follow my point instead, you suggest that we won’t see such a decisive action. Relocating them would be difficult but why do you need to rely on the same warriors that recently threatened the survival of your empire? It s not like the Mediterranean world lack of barbarian ethnicities willing to serve in the Roman army for a generous price (but at Roman conditions,under the command of Roman officers instead of a barbarian King and acting as Roman units instead of nomadic people trying to carve a kingdom in the province they are serving) that could be payed by the African taxpayers. I want to finally note that the vandal settlement in Africa didn t reply to any particular Roman need (basically the Romans didn t asks them to move to Africa to protect the province, before being betrayed) but to particular conditions: a civil war. There was no need for vandal warriors in Africa before bonifacius and I doubt that there will be much need after the African campaign. Probably some minor units with garrisons duties will be needed( there is the problem of the emerging Romano-berbers entities, but some of them already existed before the loss of Africa with the Romans basically controlling only the coast and this kind of deal worked perfectly before and could work again now, if well arranged diplomatically)
 
the lack of mention of Anthemius however is more a proof of his weak contribution to the expedition rather than a proof of his extraneity.
Procopius is quite clear, tough, about where the motivation of the campaign is, which is in Constantinople and not in Ravenna, Anthemius litterally being said to have been chosen as colleague because Constantinople needed help to take back Africa. Is it a definitive proof? No, I agree.
But it's a mention with a great interest when it's added to a quick overview of Constantinople and Ravenna's capacities : the incapacity of WRE to pull anything at this point plus the mention of Anthemius as a junior partner even in this campaign...It's not anecdotical.

And, eventually, the lack of sources or mentions (as far as I could find, but I'd welcome any one that I would have missed) that would support the idea Ravenna was to "inherit" Africa makes this very idea unsubstantiated and made out of habit more than anything. It's not impossible: after all Leo did used the claim of Ravenna's dominance over Vandals as a casus belli and would have likely given Anthemius some sort of dominance over the region.

Beside an African campaign, in my opinion, would require a certain degree of logistical support from any power based in Italy. This maybe doesn’t prove anything about the destiny of Africa but maybe the wre involvement was not so insignificant.
If we go by our main contemporary primary sources there, we have few mention of Anthemius or WRE's participation. Which, of course, doesn't mean he didn't participated but the essential part of the logistic was provided by Constantinople. We're talking more than one thousand ships (when Majorian was credited with a large fleet by gathering 300), three main armies whom two were lead by Eastern Romans and one by Marcellinus,
In fact, the only mention made of Anthemius on this regard was (from Candidus) that "adequate ammounts [were] raised from the public funds and from the Emperor Anthemius" which is not really much in comparison of the claimed 64,000 pounds of gold and the 700, 000 pounds of silver gathered by Leo for the expedition. It's more or less the late ancient equivalent of "I'm helping!".

Most of the expected geologistical support was to come from an Sicily retaken by Marcellinus : don't get me wrong, I've no doubt that military forces were sent by Anthemius even if they're not directly mentioned. But clearly not under WRE's direction.

However I want to discuss this from another perspective: the Roman were used to the idea of multiple emperors,probably they also recognized the need occasionally.
Of course, but it turned quickly to be a non-territorial collegiality rather than a return to West/East division that lost virtually all relevance both politically and strategically in the late Vth onwards. You mention the tentatives of reestablishment of western imperium, but AFAIR, these were rather usurpations that began in the West and attempted at topple who ruled in Constantinople, rather than restauring WRE, like Heraclius did.

By keeping Africa for himself, Leo basically undermine Anthemius’position (his man) and the whole idea of sending someone trustworthy (albeit subordinate) to the western provinces.
Leo was working on a thin line in WRE, admittedly. He sent Anthemius because Ravenne's court was a joke and at the very least needed some imperial dignity and legitimacy. But he was (as Anthemius) stuck between a Barbaro-Roman more or less led by Ricimer (and with an overriding and decisional power comparable to Aspar's in Constantinople) and an Italo-Roman factions whom each hated the guts out of the other, but found themselves together in a common defiance of Anthemius. Giving the history of Ravenne's policies, and while he would certainly have given Anthemius more than a token rule over Africa, it's really likely that a man as Basiliscus (which was really high-ranked and close to power) would take the direct rule of the region and would answer more to Constantinople than to Ravenna for the simple reason the latter didn't (couldn't) lead the expedition and couldn't control the territory.

Eventually, I don't even think it would be a that conscious policy from Leo to limit Anthemius' influence in Africa, but just a consequences of the geopolitical realities unfolding more or less by themselves.

The questions here is would the addition of Africa and later Italy (with the connected risk of usurper and separatist coming from the West) be more beneficial to the ere than a loyal and stable wre whose emperor has been sent there for exactly this purpose?
You forget there than WRE was an imperial hotseat, where the average reign was incredibily short. WRE wasn't stable in any sense of the world, and the necessity of Constantinople to regularily pull a candidate out of its sleeves and being forced to support him with their own resources for a net result being dangerously close to "lol, no".IOTL they went with the disappearance of WRE and the support of patricianship because it was too much hassle for a token Italy.
ITTL, however, Africa is in the basket and it's highly dubious they'd let emperors wanabees relaced every two seconds (and, more importantly, their Barbarian commander-in-chief) having a say in what was not only the most wealthy province of the region but also an important strategic plate (the expedition was decided after Vandals decided it would be a good idea raiding Greece). There was simply too much at stake to graciously abandon Africa to emperors that could not even survive on its own.

(assuming that Rome instead of Constantinople benefit from the reconquest,otherwise there wouldn t be many changes)
I think you're using the right words there : it's assuming they would do so, when frankly sources does point that Ravenne wasn't particularily concerned by the whole thing compared to Constantinople. I don't expect Leo to say "it's mine now, get lost" and Anthemius would probably get some acknowledgement of his imperial dominance with some financial gain, but would it be only the need to compensate for the really important sums involved in the campaign would limit these gains.
As for the lack of changes, I wholly disagree : I tried to point how an earlier and saner ERE advance in Central Romania, instead of a JUSTINIAN SMASH attitude would bring significant developments.

Speaking about the foreignness of Anthemius how would leo be better? He is equally an eastern but more distant and probably unable to keep Italy under constant control.
I didn't said it would happen overnight, I said WRE had basically the choice at this point being swallowed up by Babarians as IOTL, or by ERE giving it was far too dependent from one or the other to stand on its own feet anymore.

Finally about the vandals, let’s follow your point: an eastern Roman ruled Africa means no need to rely so heavily on foederati for the defence of the province ( the eastern army is still facing the problem of barbarians inside the army but they should be making progresses) so why keeping them alive?
Of course they would be still in need of an army in Africa (the region already proved it was not protected by some plot armor). Would it be only because of the Berber raidings, and the very possible Gothic interest on this area (after Vandals, Goths had the only worth of mention navy in western Med), and even if nobody goes into Africa because reasons, nothing would have been won in the west just replacing Vandal piracy with Gothic piracy.
And as for the rest of western Romania, how can Ravenne not being dependent on foederati when they are litterally the only army they can dispose of, even if irregularily and not really trustworthy? Anthemius have simply no forces of its own.

I am not suggesting a genocide of the vandals but something similar to what happened after the vandalic war: the end of an indipendente vandal kingdom, with the survivors forced to join the army or relocated on the other side of the empire
There's an important difference : Vandals in the late Vth are at the apogee of their dominance in Africa, when Vandals in the mid-VIth were severely beaten by Berbers; with the development of Justinian's policies utterly rejecting the concept of foedi in fact (which backfired and how!). Pulling an inedite (because it would be inedite) decision like this, and that would cost yet other resources, would be frankly inane.
Even the claims made in the VIth they relocate the whole of Vandal population isn't really entierely credible, to be honest, and it would be even less ITTL.

Relocating them would be difficult but why do you need to rely on the same warriors that recently threatened the survival of your empire?
Because there wasn't much other credible alternative : you still forgetting that each time, and litterally so, that a foedus was reduced into obedience in western Romania so far, it was kept in the same rough region. That is a basic fact of late imperial geopolitics : they depended too much on Barbarians against other Barbarians to just make them disappear.

I want to finally note that the vandal settlement in Africa didn t reply to any particular Roman need (basically the Romans didn t asks them to move to Africa to protect the province, before being betrayed) but to particular conditions: a civil war.
Literally no one claimed this.

Anyway, the point isn't that everything Barbarians did was piloted by the imperial court or pretenders. It was rather that, while largely autonomous polities with a decisive nuisance power that, historically, led to the collapse of the Roman state in the west, Romans couldn't just get rid of them even (and critically) in this situation because to fight them, they essentially had to use other foedi and that since the 430's. The military dependence on effectively independent (if integrated) bodies was far too important : the only way to counter that was to be dependent on the Eastern Roman resources.
 
Top