Successful British Invasion of The River Plate

As part of the wider Napoleonic Wars Britain invaded the Spanish held territory of The River Plate in 1806/1807. Today this encompasses both Buenos Aires and Montevideo. ITOTL Britain was unsuccessful suffering a humiliating defeat to mainly local militia forces which included African slaves and Creoles. This victory also ignited a feeling of self determination and independence amongst the defenders. Probably hastening their eventual emancipation and their rejection of imperial rule.

WI however Britain had been successful and had decided to make The River Plate a British colony? How long could this colony have lasted under British rule? What long lasting cultural, economic and political effect would it had had on South America? And lastly how would this have benefitted the British in the immediacy and in the long term?
 
I really don’t see how the British can take much more than the Intendancy of Buenos Aires, and even then, it would be deeply difficult for them to do so. Furthermore, the British expedition was quite badly-planned. At its worst, I can imagine the River Plate being the British Peninsular War.

If, say, the British gave some promises of autonomy, then perhaps they could win local support, but without that, it would be extremely difficult.
 
I cannot see the british taking that much of the countryside, as it would require a very focused effort on part of the british armed forces. The Buenos Aires expedition was a bit of a sideshow to the continental wars at the time.
However, that doesn't mean the british can hold no territory whatsoever. I speculate that they could either:
-Take Buenos Aures as a south american "Hong Kong" of sorts;
-Or trade their territory held in what would be Argentina for the entirety of Cisplatina, or Uruguay.
 
Once Spain switches sides and joins Britain is an ally Britain will say you can have it back as long as we get trading rights, possibly throughout South America. Britain Would be in a sticky wicket grabbing land belonging to ally. “Giving” it back while squeezing concessions would be gain for Britain and saves face for Spain. Until a bourbon again sits the throne, Britain hangs onto it as a caretaker. The royalist would support the situation, as the alternative is separatists taking over, and the separatists lose the moral high ground they otl held with their obvious pretense of holding the reins for the bourbons

Or all the locals say he’ll no and kick the brits out. Britain is not going to get sidetracked on a major fight on a colony of little strategic value, especially once Spain becomes an ally
 
The secret to doing this successfully is to do it in an earlier war. A longer Seven Years War, as Pitt wanted, was planned to have attacks on Spanish possessions in the South Sea, which presumably means the River Plate. That gives you two major advantages:

- The attack would have central backing and proper planning, rather than the piecemeal effort in the 1800s
- The place has a smaller population and would struggle to see a determined force
- Locals are still sore about the Bourbon reforms
- The place still has to trade through Peru, meaning substantial economic advantage through becoming British and trading through Buenos Aires and Montevideo.
 
The secret to doing this successfully is to do it in an earlier war. A longer Seven Years War, as Pitt wanted, was planned to have attacks on Spanish possessions in the South Sea, which presumably means the River Plate. That gives you two major advantages:

I note that the British seized some other territories during the 7 Years War from Spain that they had to give back in a few years. Not to say the reforms in South America triggered by the "British decade" won't have long term effects.
 
Many of the “locals”
I really don’t see how the British can take much more than the Intendancy of Buenos Aires, and even then, it would be deeply difficult for them to do so. Furthermore, the British expedition was quite badly-planned. At its worst, I can imagine the River Plate being the British Peninsular War.

If, say, the British gave some promises of autonomy, then perhaps they could win local support, but without that, it would be extremely difficult.

To describe it as “deeply difficult” is somewhat of a stretch as both invasions had realistic chances of success indeed on both occasions the invasions came close to achieving their goals. Yes, it was badly planned with the British underestimating their foe which for me further exemplifies the possibility of success- better planning and more respect for their adversary in relationship to tactics would have helped to achieve their primary goals. Looking at the numbers sent on the second expedition this was no lacklustre attempt the British were certainly serious and committed. The point of the invasion was primarily economic and the empire saw this as an opportunity which would reap financially long lasting dividends. This was no “sideline” it was a concerted opportunistic grab at some prime real estate. To the war in Europe merely provided the British with a convenient excuse to enact on a Long held ambition.
 
I note that the British seized some other territories during the 7 Years War from Spain that they had to give back in a few years. Not to say the reforms in South America triggered by the "British decade" won't have long term effects.

They didn't "have" to give them back. The administration formed by the newly crowned King wanted to have peace and gave us a very generous peace deal. Pitt's plan was another year of war to force France and Spain to beg for peace. Spain would have been desperate to get Cuba back, so would likely have traded a lot to get it.

EDIT: To give you an idea of how generous the peace deal was, it is typical to give back a territory of equal worth to one you keep in the deal. The Brits gave back Cuba, the lynchpin of the Spanish empire, for the sparsely populated Florida.
 
To describe it as “deeply difficult” is somewhat of a stretch as both invasions had realistic chances of success indeed on both occasions the invasions came close to achieving their goals.

They would be met with a great deal of opposition. As the war of independence shows, the Argentinian people were willing to fight a long campaign against their enemy. That would lead to many British resources lost in a campaign much less important than the war in Europe. Furthermore, as this was before the Peninsular War, the Argentinians were extremely loyal to the Spanish crown.

Even if Britain is able to conquer Buenos Aires, it will gain the enmity of Spanish America for conquering Buenos Aires. As such, the Latin American countries would be far less willing to sign treaties of trade that ultimately became treaties of virtual vassalage. What remains of Argentina will never be a “Dominion of Honour” ITTL, as it will hate Britain for conquering Buenos Aires.
 
They didn't "have" to give them back. The administration formed by the newly crowned King wanted to have peace and gave us a very generous peace deal. Pitt's plan was another year of war to force France and Spain to beg for peace. Spain would have been desperate to get Cuba back, so would likely have traded a lot to get it

I understand, but I am referring to the British defeat in the American Revolution, which saw them lose Florida and Minorca.
 
They would be met with a great deal of opposition. As the war of independence shows, the Argentinian people were willing to fight a long campaign against their enemy. That would lead to many British resources lost in a campaign much less important than the war in Europe. Furthermore, as this was before the Peninsular War, the Argentinians were extremely loyal to the Spanish crown.

Even if Britain is able to conquer Buenos Aires, it will gain the enmity of Spanish America for conquering Buenos Aires. As such, the Latin American countries would be far less willing to sign treaties of trade that ultimately became treaties of virtual vassalage. What remains of Argentina will never be a “Dominion of Honour” ITTL, as it will hate Britain for conquering Buenos Aires.

Many of the “locals” were unsure who to side with your representing this as a black and white situation. Britain also considered making Buenos Aires a proctectorate which whilst alters the perimeters of the original thread was equally as plausible as a “colony”. Britain had held long term ambitions to gain access and to dominate trade in South America. A plan of political concessions and appeasement’s were allegedly being drafted to help acquiesce the population into the British sphere of influence post invasion. Whether these were to be successful is highly debatable but I believe several outcomes could have been possible in an altered time line rather than the stock response which may indeed have been the result but seems to be a tired narrative without due consideration to other potential narratives.
 
Many of the “locals” were unsure who to side with your representing this as a black and white situation. Britain also considered making Buenos Aires a proctectorate which whilst alters the perimeters of the original thread was equally as plausible as a “colony”. Britain had held long term ambitions to gain access and to dominate trade in South America. A plan of political concessions and appeasement’s were allegedly being drafted to help acquiesce the population into the British sphere of influence post invasion. Whether these were to be successful is highly debatable but I believe several outcomes could have been possible in an altered time line rather than the stock response which may indeed have been the result but seems to be a tired narrative without due consideration to other potential narratives.

Would it be possible for the British to "Plantation" the River Plate somehow to insure their loyalty? Perhaps by using the folks that IOTL would be sent to Australia?
 
Would it be possible for the British to "Plantation" the River Plate somehow to insure their loyalty? Perhaps by using the folks that IOTL would be sent to Australia?

This would likely happen with an earlier invasion, but post-1807 is too late. What would likely happen is River Plate and its environs become a protectorate and further actual colonies are made to the South. By 1900 or so, they get grouped together in a union of equal states for Dominion status.
 
Many of the “locals” were unsure who to side with your representing this as a black and white situation. Britain also considered making Buenos Aires a proctectorate which whilst alters the perimeters of the original thread was equally as plausible as a “colony”. Britain had held long term ambitions to gain access and to dominate trade in South America. A plan of political concessions and appeasement’s were allegedly being drafted to help acquiesce the population into the British sphere of influence post invasion. Whether these were to be successful is highly debatable but I believe several outcomes could have been possible in an altered time line rather than the stock response which may indeed have been the result but seems to be a tired narrative without due consideration to other potential narratives.

Tired narrative? The tired narrative is that placing Anglo-Saxons in the Rio de la Plata would magically turn Argentina into a first-world country, never mind that it was doing just fine until well into the twentieth century without Anglo-Saxons. You are severely underestimating the loyalty of the Argentina people to their king, and you are underestimating the strength of Spain (whose fatal decline has yet to occur).

I also doubt that the British would be successful in bringing in local populations to their side. In Spanish America, the upper classes were uniformly in support of the Spanish monarchy, until that monarchy was overthrown by Napoleon and Spanish political theory meant that in the absence of a king, authority reverted to the people. There were rebellions such as the Revolt of the Comuneros, but that was an extremely minor affair, and strikingly, those rebellions were in the name of the Spanish king. No doubt protectorate status would have been less awful to the Argentinians, but it would have been insufficient to make them support the invaders, unless that protectorate status means little more than trading with Britain, in which case we essentially have OTL Argentina.

But, sure. Here’s a scenario. Britain invaded and takes Buenos Aires in 1808. Despite initial resistance, word of Napoleon’s invasion of Spain leads to ambivalence by the local population, who are happy after Britain gives them protectorate status. Yet, confederal Argentina, after it gains independence, is angry and fights numerous wars against Britain.

Would it be possible for the British to "Plantation" the River Plate somehow to insure their loyalty? Perhaps by using the folks that IOTL would be sent to Australia?

Some of the people placed in Australia were Irish political prisoners. That would, if anything, lead to sympathies among Argentinians, many of whom are descended from Irish people who fled Ireland.
 
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If anything, the British can delay the invasion and concert it with the Portuguese in Brazil to "Poland" the Rio de la Plata. I bet it would confuse a lot the local elite, but neither the British in Buenos Aires nor the Portuguese in Uruguay would adventure further inland I suppose. The inland Provinces would probably continue to fight each other until they reach some kind of federal agreement, but the British and the Luso-Brazilians will also probably try to avoid it.
 
If anything, the British can delay the invasion and concert it with the Portuguese in Brazil to "Poland" the Rio de la Plata. I bet it would confuse a lot the local elite, but neither the British in Buenos Aires nor the Portuguese in Uruguay would adventure further inland I suppose. The inland Provinces would probably continue to fight each other until they reach some kind of federal agreement, but the British and the Luso-Brazilians will also probably try to avoid it.

Are you referencing Carlota Joaquina’s crazy plan of making the Rio de la Plata a Portuguese kingdom? Making Portugal stronger would be rather opposed to Britain’s policy of making everyone not Britain divided and squabbling.
 
Are you referencing Carlota Joaquina’s crazy plan of making the Rio de la Plata a Portuguese kingdom? Making Portugal stronger would be rather opposed to Britain’s policy of making everyone not Britain divided and squabbling.

Investing on Cartola might be a little bit too dangerous. Portugal and Britain can simply agree on the division of the the Plate estuary, Uruguay for Portugal, Buenos Aires for Britain. That happened in the Guyanas, the British took Dutch Guyana and the Portuguese occupied French Guyana in 1808.
 
Here is some information on the 1806-7 invasion of the Rio de la Plata.

A policy of conquest pre-supposed that the creoles would welcome a change of imperial government. But any illusions about this were shattered in the Rio de la Plata in 1806-7. During the British occupation of Monte- video Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Bourke sounded creole opinion and found that it was 'entirely turned towards Independence, and the establishment of a Republic or Federal Government similar to that of North America. That the submitting to an English master would be the greatest possible bar to this project ... I have never heard a word of an English Party of which so much was said in London about the time of our sailing; nor do I believe that such a party ever existed.' 5 Another officer was even more pessimistic: 'You have not a friend among the inhabitants of South America. The people here are not that soft, effeminate race they are in Old Spain, on the contrary they are ferocious and want discipline only to make them formid- able.' 6 In the event they had discipline enough to eject the British invaders.

The article goes on to speak of how the British decided to support emancipation movements instead of conquest.
 
I cannot see the british taking that much of the countryside, as it would require a very focused effort on part of the british armed forces. The Buenos Aires expedition was a bit of a sideshow to the continental wars at the time.
However, that doesn't mean the british can hold no territory whatsoever. I speculate that they could either:
-Take Buenos Aures as a south american "Hong Kong" of sorts;
-Or trade their territory held in what would be Argentina for the entirety of Cisplatina, or Uruguay.

Many of the “locals” were unsure who to side with your representing this as a black and white situation. Britain also considered making Buenos Aires a proctectorate which whilst alters the perimeters of the original thread was equally as plausible as a “colony”. Britain had held long term ambitions to gain access and to dominate trade in South America. A plan of political concessions and appeasement’s were allegedly being drafted to help acquiesce the population into the British sphere of influence post invasion. Whether these were to be successful is highly debatable but I believe several outcomes could have been possible in an altered time line rather than the stock response which may indeed have been the result but seems to be a tired narrative without due consideration to other potential narratives.

If anything, the British can delay the invasion and concert it with the Portuguese in Brazil to "Poland" the Rio de la Plata. I bet it would confuse a lot the local elite, but neither the British in Buenos Aires nor the Portuguese in Uruguay would adventure further inland I suppose. The inland Provinces would probably continue to fight each other until they reach some kind of federal agreement, but the British and the Luso-Brazilians will also probably try to avoid it.

Seems to me that Britain could keep the Banda Oriental/Uruguay as a colony and make Buenos Aires an independent protectorate within 1-2 years at most after 1807. Portugal and Britain could agree to a common border at more or less the OTL Uruguayan-Brazilian border without fighting each other, as they're allies. In the Uruguayan countryside in the early 1810s, Artigas and his forces are chased out by the British (as well as perhaps the Portuguese), ending up first in Entre Rios and then in Corrientes/Paraguay (cf. the Boer Trek). Britain soon thereafter annexes Entre Rios and makes that into a British colony.

Starting in the 1820s-1830s, the British establish a colony in the south of OTL Buenos Aires Province (e.g. around OTL Bahia Blanca), and over the subsequent decades the British consolidate their claims in Patagonia and Fireland (Tierra del Fuego) and promote settlement. Also, due to changed circumstances of various sorts and because possession of Buenos Aires remains a British ideal for the region, Britain directly takes over Buenos Aires (plus Santa Fe and what not) sometime in the 1840s, and eventually it annexes first the independent republic of Cordoba and then the independent republics of Cuyo (e.g. Mendoza) and Tucuman - along with Corrientes - for various reasons. (The independent republic of Salta remains as such to this day, serving as a buffer state between Argentina and Bolivia; Paraguay - including areas IOTL lost to Brazil after 1870 but excluding the Chaco - also remains independent.) The Chaco gets more or less evenly divided between Argentina and Bolivia, and Missions (Misiones) also gets annexed to Argentina. Argentina as a "white dominion" is federated in the mid- to late-1870s and at least eventually incorporates all the above British colonies/protectorates.

Once Spain switches sides and joins Britain is an ally Britain will say you can have it back as long as we get trading rights, possibly throughout South America. Britain Would be in a sticky wicket grabbing land belonging to ally. “Giving” it back while squeezing concessions would be gain for Britain and saves face for Spain. Until a bourbon again sits the throne, Britain hangs onto it as a caretaker. The royalist would support the situation, as the alternative is separatists taking over, and the separatists lose the moral high ground they otl held with their obvious pretense of holding the reins for the bourbons

Or all the locals say he’ll no and kick the brits out. Britain is not going to get sidetracked on a major fight on a colony of little strategic value, especially once Spain becomes an ally

Spain is too weak by 1807 to demand that its lands overseas be given back from Britain.
 
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