I just thought of a truly ugly propaganda possibility! I could see an effort being made, either by the government or churches, to whip up a religious crusade type of mentality against the "godless communists." I don't see Lang going that route, but others might. Use it overseas, too, if the idea of volunteer brigades comes up. Religious wars are UGLY!

From the Soviet position, even pinprick air raids at different areas of Germany can disperse air defenses, allowing for a major strike somewhere.

Also, how nasty is the war so far with regard to treatment of POW's. Tied up with that, is Japan dominated by the same code of bushido as in OTL?

You are painting a wonderful picture of a large war...keep it up. Rotating pilots out of combat so they can train the next generation is going to pay off BIG!
 
I imagine the ending of the movie would be a somewhat blurry first person view walk through the snow, heading towards the lights of a small town, the only sound would be a breathing and a heartbeat, both going slower and slower, the image slowly darkening, then the view 'falling' in the snow, the breathing stopping, then the screen going dark, then the heartbeat stopping, then all the lights remaining in the viewing room of the Cinema turned off to live the room in complete darkness.

Some Films from that period could be rightfully considered art, and the Directors had a big bag of tricks to generate impressions and psychological reactions in the audience.

I can see the end of this film in my mind's eye, culminating with the total silence and darkness in the theatre. I know it's a fictional propaganda film in a fictional timeline dealing with fictional characters by our esteemed Peabody-Martini but I can imagine the emotion it would bring. This film would make the case of the German people to everyone in the world, most especially to the United States.

The first Academy Awards were awarded in 1929 and there was no separate category for foreign-language films. If this gets exported as I think it should then I wouldnt be surprised if it gets awarded Best Picture.

No, I don't think Kat should attend the awards ceremony.
 
I should have mentioned the film, also--you really made that bit work!!! Quick work making it, too. (I suspect that they had help from the military!)

Dub it into English!!!

Now for "30 seconds over Vladivostok"
 
I should have mentioned the film, also--you really made that bit work!!! Quick work making it, too. (I suspect that they had help from the military!)

Now for "30 seconds over Vladivostok"

Spending months in pre and post production is something that happened in the 1950s as the scale and budget for films increased. In this era it was still possible to have a script, shoot and edit a movie in surprisingly little time. Having the Government and military behind a film like this would speed production. A full year would actually be plenty of time.
 
Spending months in pre and post production is something that happened in the 1950s as the scale and budget for films increased. In this era it was still possible to have a script, shoot and edit a movie in surprisingly little time. Having the Government and military behind a film like this would speed production. A full year would actually be plenty of time.

Special effects are much easier when blowing up a tank, for example, is done by dragging an older tank out to a set and loading it with explosives.
Regarding the media--are there color movies or television?
 
Special effects are much easier when blowing up a tank, for example, is done by dragging an older tank out to a set and loading it with explosives.

The good old days, the 1964 production, The Train featured a train wreck where they deliberately derailed a locomotive. The camera that survived the shoot was the one that filmed the shot that they used in the film.

Regarding the media--are there color movies or television?

Technicolor, like in OTL is currently limited to Hollywood productions. Germany is still in the process of perfecting Agfacolor but that's limited to feature films. The bulk of production is still in monochrome.

Television is still mostly in the domain of universities and the military largely due to the expense and perceived lack of demand, something that will eventually change.
 
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This movie is going to have a really long effect on the nature of the Soviet reputation post war within Germany, and if the film enjoys a world wide distribution I could see it being remade as one of the best historical docudramas.
 
This movie is going to have a really long effect on the nature of the Soviet reputation post war within Germany, and if the film enjoys a world wide distribution I could see it being remade as one of the best historical docudramas.

Conspiracy theorists will, of course, wonder if someone actually survived, her survival covered up by the sinister Abwher...or covered up by the heroic Abwher/British Intelligence/whoever to protect an innocent yung girl--or to protect a weapon against the dastardly Russians. There's probably at least one tale along those lines out already...
 
. Conspiracy theorists will, of course, wonder if someone actually survived, her survival covered up by the sinister Abwher...or covered up by the heroic Abwher/British Intelligence/whoever to protect an innocent yung girl--or to protect a weapon against the dastardly Russians. There's probably at least one tale along those lines out already...

True but unless there is a security leak then it will remain just that a conspiracy theory.

The majority of people will just dismiss or ignore the idea out of hand.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
From the Soviet position, even pinprick air raids at different areas of Germany can disperse air defenses, allowing for a major strike somewhere.

Not really within Soviet capabilities unless there's a pretty large shift in Soviet politics. IOTL, the Soviet airforce was almost entirely tactical, certainly no aircraft capable of carrying strategically significant loads to most strategic targets in Germany were produced in significant numbers.

Even the Soviets putting significant effort into their interceptors is quite a shift, as they were pretty ineffectual in their first iterations, and proved difficult for the Soviets to significantly improve.


Thirdly, Germany had a robust, sophisticated, coordinated, and damned effective air defense network. Even the FlaK guns alone were surprisingly effective. They certainly have the ability to thoroughly cover all significant targets.
 
Not really within Soviet capabilities unless there's a pretty large shift in Soviet politics. IOTL, the Soviet airforce was almost entirely tactical, certainly no aircraft capable of carrying strategically significant loads to most strategic targets in Germany were produced in significant numbers.

Even the Soviets putting significant effort into their interceptors is quite a shift, as they were pretty ineffectual in their first iterations, and proved difficult for the Soviets to significantly improve.


Thirdly, Germany had a robust, sophisticated, coordinated, and damned effective air defense network. Even the FlaK guns alone were surprisingly effective. They certainly have the ability to thoroughly cover all significant targets.


The Soviets did have the acceptable PE-8, with which they bombed Berlin in 1941, I believe. So, it CAN be done, but it will certainly be expensive. The German fighters and flak will be every bit as effective against B-17 OTL. The German fighters also exacted a toll on the PE-8s OTL.
 
The Soviets did have the acceptable PE-8, with which they bombed Berlin in 1941, I believe. So, it CAN be done, but it will certainly be expensive. The German fighters and flak will be every bit as effective against B-17 OTL. The German fighters also exacted a toll on the PE-8s OTL.
Hmmm... i was thinking about the Russians pulling out one HELL of a trick for the moment on that Helene will shine as an ace.

At the current technology level, the Radar tells you that something is up there, not WHAT is up there.

Does anyone remembers a strategy employed by the Russians in the book "Red Storm Rising" What implied the use of Missiles outfitted with EMCOM packages to fake the approach of Backfire bombers by one vector and have the entire aerial forces of a Carrier Group go away in one direction, while the real strike group catches the entire Naval group with the pants down?


Now, the tactic, it would be to create a Glider mock up of the Russian Bomber, but with only wings and and a mix of cloth and metal skin..... then practice to have it dragged into the air by a Russian fighter with extra tanks.....Between the Fighters and the fake "Bombers" they would project a far bigger radar image, something more than juicy for the Luftwaffe to jump over, fulfilling their role as bait.

..... all while the REAL attack group is hitting another target, and flying low as hell in the night to avoid Radar as much as possible and delay the awareness of the real target.

Infortunately crossing in the process a transport flight of an entire Wing of top of the line fighters to their base... one commanded by Helene.... and she has to take a group of green girls as they are the only standing defense between the target and the bombers and escorting fighters....
 
Now, the tactic, it would be to create a Glider mock up of the Russian Bomber, but with only wings and and a mix of cloth and metal skin..... then practice to have it dragged into the air by a Russian fighter with extra tanks.....Between the Fighters and the fake "Bombers" they would project a far bigger radar image, something more than juicy for the Luftwaffe to jump over, fulfilling their role as bait.
I'm not sure about the range of Soviet fighters (which the Soviet need all they produce anyway to not be swept from the skies by the Luftwaffe), but I'm quite sure they won't have the engine power to drag both extra fuel thanks and a bomber-size glider.
And if the "group of green girls" and Helene meets a flight of bombers and escorting fighters, maybe Helene would survive by virtue of being the female equivalent of Erich Hartmann or Daddy Manfred, but the girls dead and broken bodies would have to be dragged out of the twisted remains of their planes.
Unless they were to fly the new P(lot)A(armour)-1000 models.
 
I'm not sure about the range of Soviet fighters (which the Soviet need all they produce anyway to not be swept from the skies by the Luftwaffe), but I'm quite sure they won't have the engine power to drag both extra fuel thanks and a bomber-size glider.
And if the "group of green girls" and Helene meets a flight of bombers and escorting fighters, maybe Helene would survive by virtue of being the female equivalent of Erich Hartmann or Daddy Manfred, but the girls dead and broken bodies would have to be dragged out of the twisted remains of their planes.
Unless they were to fly the new P(lot)A(armour)-1000 models.
We are speaking of Stalinist Russia. Either they found a way or the engineers would find a nice trip ticket to Siberia. Even if it meant that the air vessels went in a 1 way trip and low odds of survival, if it meant that the precious Luftwaffe would be off site and the door open to the blow.

And ironically, THAT is precisely what would likely happen.. a bloody wake up call that Helene would be one of the few survivors , a "Victory" of ashes, blood and tears of people what she would have become friends with and trained some of them, precisely these who survived the encounter with the best Aces of the Russian Air Force....

.... Something that would kill the arrogance and the worst traits of Helene and would leave a down to earth Helene Von Richthofen with the attitude and the nice baggage of grief and anger that makes one of her Family extremely lethal in the Air.... the Birth of "Der Schwarze Valkyries" ... The Black Valkyries, the Choosers of the Slain...
 
I've been turning things over in my head, and the computers have potential to be a real game changer. How much has been done as far as integrating them into the Heer's operations?

The big use could be logistics
Time On Target artillery barrages will be easier to compute.
Computers can outdo mechanical devices for the cryptographic department.

How advanced are they? And how advanced is the software?
 

FBKampfer

Banned
The Soviets did have the acceptable PE-8, with which they bombed Berlin in 1941, I believe. So, it CAN be done, but it will certainly be expensive. The German fighters and flak will be every bit as effective against B-17 OTL. The German fighters also exacted a toll on the PE-8s OTL.

As I said, produced in significant numbers. And greater prodictuon would require more of a political differentiation, which doesn't seem to have happened as much, likely due to the USSR's political isolation.

Though a Pe-8 could be a reasonably effective platform if upgraded.
 
I havent really entered into this desire to move the TL in a womans liberation direction. It would certainly be a benefit, and possible with a social Democrats government. However, I Think production is as far as it most realistically would go -and that would yield the full benefit. Women are undoubtedly mens equal in most tasks, but not likely to be superior fighters.
If we go this Way and want the characters to play out their potential, I Seem to recall the Germans recently phased out he-112's for training. Maybe women Can take up liaison roles, and while practicing in a he-112, an interception is made. Helene disobeys orders and goes after them?
 
We are speaking of Stalinist Russia. Either they found a way or the engineers would find a nice trip ticket to Siberia. Even if it meant that the air vessels went in a 1 way trip and low odds of survival, if it meant that the precious Luftwaffe would be off site and the door open to the blow.

And ironically, THAT is precisely what would likely happen.. a bloody wake up call that Helene would be one of the few survivors , a "Victory" of ashes, blood and tears of people what she would have become friends with and trained some of them, precisely these who survived the encounter with the best Aces of the Russian Air Force....

.... Something that would kill the arrogance and the worst traits of Helene and would leave a down to earth Helene Von Richthofen with the attitude and the nice baggage of grief and anger that makes one of her Family extremely lethal in the Air.... the Birth of "Der Schwarze Valkyries" ... The Black Valkyries, the Choosers of the Slain...

Better she adopt the dispassionate view of her father; grief and anger, while motivating to an extent, will eventually lead to flawed decision-making, higher losses for those she leads and, probably, ultimately to her death. Remember the mission where her father and his cohorts shot down three Brits without loss and he decided it was a successful mission and returned to base?
 
Even though Kat has diminished hearing in her left ear does not mean she will not be in uniform.
If the Empress is the Commander-in-Chief of the women auxiliaries, then Kat can be her Aide-de -Camp.

And dressed in a female-styled aide-de-camp's uniform complete with sidearm. Whenever she and the Empress go anywhere by car she should ride in the front seat, with a small duffel bag at her feet containing an SMG and a half-dozen filled magazines.
 
I've been turning things over in my head, and the computers have potential to be a real game changer. How much has been done as far as integrating them into the Heer's operations?

The big use could be logistics
Time On Target artillery barrages will be easier to compute.
Computers can outdo mechanical devices for the cryptographic department.

How advanced are they? And how advanced is the software?

The major use ITTL was computing artillery firing tables.
 
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