Can Anyone explain what the US currently have against the Germans? Before WW2 they were more or less ok with the empires doing their thing and they were ok with being militarily weak. Having influence in eurasia switch to Germany would Seem of little difference in the Big picture?

Here's why: A8 Sarin Rockets and u-boats good enough to sneak right up next to the biggest battleship in the world, surrounded by its escorts, and blow it away. Combine the two, or add nuclear weapons, and suddenly the oceans aren't so protective.

Also, wounded national pride from WWI plays a role.
 
Can Anyone explain what the US currently have against the Germans? Before WW2 they were more or less ok with the empires doing their thing and they were ok with being militarily weak. Having influence in eurasia switch to Germany would Seem of little difference in the Big picture?

It stems from believing their own hype. The whole "American Century" thing, they thought that they were the biggest emerging player only to find that another power was rising and has surpassed them. Now they find themselves on the back foot and are deeply suspicious of the motives of that other power.
 
And they did like to think of themselves as China's best friend and protector. Truman may have overplayed his hand a little. It is now 76 years since the loss of Alsace-Lorraine and Britain and France have had time to get used to a powerful Germany. They might be happier without the 800 pound gorilla but they haven't reached the stage of "Lets introduce another 800 pound gorilla to the scenario as a counterweight"
 
Another point to consider: In this timeline, Germany wasn't the one who attacked first. Who do you prefer, the one that defended itself from others aggression, or the one who at first came too late, and than sat fat and happy racking in money from others troubles?
 
It stems from believing their own hype. The whole "American Century" thing, they thought that they were the biggest emerging player only to find that another power was rising and has surpassed them. Now they find themselves on the back foot and are deeply suspicious of the motives of that other power.
Well that certainly happened when Gagarin was up there, but its not a given thing ITTL is it?
Was the hype on the rise before WW2?
 
Here's why: A8 Sarin Rockets and u-boats good enough to sneak right up next to the biggest battleship in the world, surrounded by its escorts, and blow it away. Combine the two, or add nuclear weapons, and suddenly the oceans aren't so protective.

Also, wounded national pride from WWI plays a role.
Well the pride was not wounded enough to play a role in the second World war. I dont know/understand the OTL US metality enough to criticise the developments ITTL, its just that it took WW2 To go from isolationism to superpower IOTL.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
On another note, Truman seems to be oblivious to the fact that he can end up very dead, very tracelessly, if that's needed for Germany's safety.

I'm sure he's aware of it, but like a good leader, he's operating as though the personal threat is non existent.

And everyone seems to be acting like Truman is incapable of being more than a blunt instrument. I think he simply recognizes brute force sends a message in its own way.

He misinterpreted the message he was sending, because he misunderstands his recipient, but his recipient received the correct message, by misinterpreting Truman's depth of understanding of his function in the German embassy.


By stupid luck and happenstance, brute force worked where a more subtle hand would have revealed the American lack of knowledge, and the message that German meddling is growing tiresome to the Americans has been received loud and clear.
 
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The American Century was a concept by Henry R. Luce put out in 1941 as the United States was gearing up for OTL WWII.
At this point in time in OTL Europe was already at war for two years and France has surrendered the year before, Nazi Germany has just or about to invade the Soviet Union.
I think without America showing that it is inclined to join ITTL war any notion that this is going to be the American Century is a very pretentious idea and the vast majority of Americans are going to reject it.

We must remember that ITTL Great War the American people feel that the sacrifices they made were unappreciated and the lives of their sons, husbands, and fathers were needlessly wasted by the Great European powers in which in the end resulted in a stalemate that could have been settled much earlier and without the lives of American boys shedding their blood.
 
Part 43, Chapter 558
Chapter Five Hundred Fifty-Eight


21st August 1946

Berlin

It was not what Gianna was expecting. The call from Doctor Holz had intrigued her, she had known that Kat had left to talk to him every Monday for a long time. She knew from movies and television shows what this supposedly looked like and this wasn’t that.

“Where’s the couch?” She asked.

“Considering the sort of individuals I typically work with, talking to someone as an equal as opposed to a Doctor and Patient makes things much easier” Doctor Holz replied, “You’ll also notice that chair has a full view of the door.”

Gianna looked around the room, two chairs a double arm-length apart, white painted walls, beige carpet and a window that looked like it was made from Plexiglas. The chairs themselves were armchairs, too heavy to be used as weapons.

“You must deal with a lot of dangerous people” Gianna observed.

“You don’t fall into that category” Doctor Holz said, “I bet you’re wondering why you’re here though.”

“Punishment” Gianna replied, “I said something horrible to Kat and she’s hardly spoken to me since, then you call me.”

“This isn’t punishment” Doctor Holz said, “The sort of people who would use the psychiatric system in that manner are more often than not seeking validation for what they have been doing on their own time.”

“What’s that supposed to mean?”

“It means that frequently in circumstances like that, the wrong person in that chair” Doctor Holz said.

Gianna still didn’t understand what that meant. “If this isn’t punishment, then what is it?” She asked.

“Your sister is concerned about you.”

“She’s not my sister.”

“In every way that counts she is” Doctor Holz said, “Your comments wouldn’t have drawn blood if that weren’t true.”

That put her actions in sharp perspective. She had tried to hurt Kat and had succeeded, something few could claim to have done.

“Tell me about Jehane Thomas” Doctor Holz said as if that didn’t mean a whole lot.

Gianna looked at him, having someone say that still had the power to startle her. “You know about that?”

“That you’re the lost daughter of Henry Thomas and Tatiana Nikolaevna?” Doctor Holz replied, “I’m one of the few people authorized to have that information even while the world thought you were dead.”

That actually explained a great deal, Kat would have needed to talk freely and that would have included her. “How much do you know?” Gianna asked.

“I know that you are under tremendous pressure” Doctor Holz said, “Your cousins have expectations of you that would effectively end the life you’ve built for yourself and I know that your adoptive family has been struggling to protect you as you’ve grown increasingly self-destructive.”

“That’s one way to put it” Gianna said.

“Is there a different way to describe your actions?” Doctor Holz asked, “Now if you could describe Jehane Thomas or Gia Strobel if you will.”

“We’re both the same person” Gianna said.

“Are you?” Doctor Holz asked, “Because from what I’m seeing you need to figure out your identity for your own peace of mind and avoiding having you destroy yourself in the meantime will be a nice addition to that.”


Washington DC

J. Edger Hoover got a cryptic message in his office, in seemed very unexpected because his observers had learned of the meeting between Senator Truman and Feldwebel-Lieutenant Schultz followed by the sudden departure of the German Noncom from the country. It seemed that Harry Truman had finally done something that he had wished to have happen for years, his blackmailer was finally gone.

Then the message, I’d love to meet you tonight, please come alone, you know why. Followed by an address and saying it was from the name that was the authenticator for Hoover’s blackmailers. He was reminded that there was still the mastermind behind Abwehr and now presumably the BND, who he had never identified.

When Hoover got there, a sleazy dive bar, spies really had a thing for places like that, he saw a peculiar looking woman sitting at the table, middle aged, mannish looking. “Pleased to finally meet you, Director” She said, with what sounded like a French accent, “As I’m sure you’ve already learned, Johann was recalled so that he can spend more time with his family, particularly his wife, such a dear man, he just can’t tell her no…”

“And just who are you?” Hoover asked cutting her off.

“My friends call me Violette, but then you are not what I would consider a friend” She said in response.

“And just what am I supposed to call you?”

“Ms. Morris works, just to let you know how our arrangement works.”

“I don’t know what you think is going on” Hoover said, but I think…”

“I think that you need to think about the consequences of the hole you’ve dug for yourself” Morris said with a knowing smile, “Because it’s so very deep.”

“I’ve not done anything that digs things deeper than what that cretin you call a dear man was holding over me.”

“You would be wrong about that” Morris said, “If you only knew the extent of what you’ve enabled, you make Benedict Arnold look like a piker.”

That took the wind out of his sails. He had only suspected that it was true in recent months. While he’d been chasing after very real Soviet agents that Schultz had tipped him off on everything he’d been building had been quietly subverted underneath him.

“As for those naughty pictures that you were so worried about, who am I to judge?” Morris said, “I’ve engaged in a bit of that myself. You really need a better wardrobe. Also, I would think a man of your stature would have had better choices for partners.”

Hoover sat there listening to Violette Morris talk frankly about the things that he’d been blackmailed over he realized that it was a good thing that Schultz had left the country because he would gladly murder him for this.
 
WOW! Talk about raising the dead, this is why I love this timeline so much.

You find the most obscure and interesting people in history and then they are given a twist that is both fresh and logical and most importantly they propel the story in unexpected ways.
 
Part 43, Chapter 559
Chapter Five Hundred Fifty-Nine


2nd September 1946

Dessau, Germany

It was an ambitious project geared to get the technical lead back from Focke-Wulf. Junkers was one of the largest aircraft manufactures in the world with satellite branches on three continents but the designs they were known for were dated and they were losing out on the lucrative Trans-Atlantic routes. This was going to change all of that. Extensive work in the wind tunnel and materials testing had gone into building the prototype EG-127, it was to be the forerunner of a new line of military transport and passenger aircraft.

With the roar of the four turbofan engines the huge plane lifted off the runway and the landing gear and flaps smoothly retracted. The plane swiftly climbed to the text altitude of 2000 meters. As the test pilot on this flight Erich Hartmann was still amazed by how light the controls were even though this was the third test flight of this particular aircraft. Junkers had invested a great deal to develop the hydraulic assist and it was paying off here as even as large as the EG-127 was it had more of the feel of the fighters he was used to rather than that of a bus like he’d assumed when he’d first seen the huge plane.

Because this was a test flight the crew was limited to the Pilot, Co-Pilot and Flight Engineer. The rest of the plane was filled with equipment that was recording every aspect of the flight that could be measured. Erich couldn’t even pretend to understand how all that stuff worked but that was hardly his job. He was reminded of that as he put the plane into a bank and brought it around to a course that was almost straight east. This is what he was looking forward to all day flying on a closed circuit while the data the eggheads liked so much was recorded.

No sooner had they settled in for what was going to be a boring afternoon than they heard a loud “BANG!” and every light on the instrument panel lit up. The yoke suddenly got very squirrelly and heavy at the same time, the rudder pedals were not much better. “It says we got a fire in number three” The Co-Pilot said, “What can you see?”

Erich craned his head around to see if he could get a look at what was going on out the side window. What he saw was a smoking ruin where the engine pod had been.

“Center this is JT Three declaring an emergency” Erich said into the mic, “Engine and hydraulic failure, possible fire.”

“Can you return to base JT?” That seemed like a simple enough question. One he didn’t know the answer to.

“We’re coming about” Erich said, “We’ll see.” For several agonizing seconds Erich watched as the big plane crabbed awkwardly to the course that would bring it back towards the airfield they had taken off from minutes earlier. That was when they lost aileron control and the plane continued its roll.

“Center, we’re notifying you that we’re abandoning aircraft!” Erich yelled. The Flight Engineer heard that and punched out, he must have had his hands on the levers. The Co-Pilot went next. By the time Erich punched out the airplane was almost inverted, and he was left tumbling in the air behind it.

Minutes later, a massive fireball erupted in the fields east of Rehsen. At least it didn’t hit anything, Erich thought to himself as he descended. Even with the parachute deployed he still hit the ground with crushing force.


Berlin

Nancy felt a bit of trepidation entering the US Embassy for the first time. As soon as she entered she was ushered into a side room and told to wait.

“Welcome, Miss Jensen” A man who had not said what Agency or Department he worked for said, “We were debating as to whether or not you would show up.”

“I didn’t think I had a choice” Nancy replied.

“We’ve no reason to lean on you here” The man said, “By the way, my name is Mike Smith, I'll be your Case Officer.”

“That’s nice, Mr. Smith” Nancy said, perfectly aware that there was never a reason to lean on her in the first place.

“It’s our understanding that you are a good American citizen who just wants to do what’s best for your country and yourself” Mike said with a smile that did not put Nancy at ease.

Kat had already taught her that those were frequently two very different things. “I’m doing the best I can” Nancy said, “I’ll need your help in getting a work permit from the German Government. That’s what I told the others I was doing here today.”

“That was a smart thing to do, Miss Jensen and that is something we can help you with” Mike said, “Before we began, just remember that everything has significance even if even if it doesn’t seem like it at the time.”

Nancy had been expressly warned about that.

“Now, how have you been doing?” Mike asked, “With school and your living situation, quite an adjustment.”

“Yes, it has been” Nancy said, that was true enough.

“Care to elaborate” Mike said.

“The women I share a house with are unlike anyone I’ve ever met before” Nancy said, “They are some very unique characters.”

“Like how so?”

“Gerta is an actress, as I’m sure you know” Nancy said, “She practices dancing in what should be the dining room. Then there is Katherine, who used to be a soldier and now is a student. Gia and Asia are across the hall and Ilse is in a room upstairs, they’re just students. Petia, the housekeeper, also has a room upstairs.”

“How much do you know about Katherine?”

“She was my pen pal for years, she was the one who invited me to live there” Nancy replied, “I was told she was dangerous, but I don’t see it.”

“How so?” Mike asked.

“Her and Gia got into an argument about someone named Jane and Gia said something that caused Katherine to lock herself in her room for a couple days” Nancy said, “If she was really dangerous, wouldn’t have something happened?”

“What do you know about this Jane?” Mike asked, ignoring Nancy’s question.

“She’s a mutual friend of Katherine, Gia and Asia” Nancy said, “She doesn’t live there, and I’ve never met her.”

“Do you know what prompted that argument?”

“Something happened at Gia’s birthday party and the two of them were acting strange after that.”

“Who else was there?”

“Several of Gia’s friends from school” Nancy said, “Katherine’s Aunt and Uncle, they’re basically Katherine and Gia’s parents. Katherine’s brother, Hans and Helene, his wife, who’s also Katherine’s best friend. Maria and her husband Emil…”

“Hold up there” Mike said as he dug through some files he’d brought in with him, he dug out a photograph and handed it to her. “Is this Maria and Emil you met?” He asked. It was of Emil wearing a full dress military uniform, Maria was at his side holding a baby while a little girl stood in front of them. It was obviously a formal family photograph.

“Yes” Nancy said, “He was nice, but he kept to himself, he reminded me of my father.”

“Thank you, Miss Jensen” Mike said as he wrote DC OKL Confirmed on his note pad and underlined it. Kat was right, whoever they had her talk to would make a big deal over that.
 
I wonder if the BII is taking notes on who is entering the United States Embassy.

Nancy just may find herself on the watch list of several different intelligence agencies and maybe there might be attempts to recruit her as a source (paging Ian Fleming).
 
I really would like to see the faces of US officials when they learn to what extent the Germans infiltrated US intelligence services after Germany declassifies those documents, sometime in the far future. :noexpression:
 
Is it possible that Shannon air port could become a refueling and stop over for Lufthansa like it was for Aeroflot OTL.
Might be useful to have refueling point the British or French do not control. Shannon airport is not far from Ardnacrusha power station that was built by Siemens in the 1930s and was their biggest export order OTL in the 1920s
https://www.siemens.com/history/en/news/1123_shannon.htm

Ireland OTL has attempted to prompt as much economic cooperation with Germany as possible.

By June 1980, Aer Rianta had constructed a dedicated fuel farm at Shannon for the storage of Soviet origin fuel.
The first Aeroflot flight to uplift this fuel landed at Shannon on 3 July, 1980. In 1980 the total Aeroflot landings at Shannon was 240, in 1991 the airline operated 2,000 aircraft through Shannon using their own fuel stocks. Aeroflot operated flights from Moscow, St Petersburg, Kiev and Minsk to various cities in the USA as well as Central and South America. The airline had traffic rights from Shannon to all their Central and South American destinations as well as Miami, Chicago, Washington D.C. and Gander, Newfoundland.
In 1983 a unique barter fuel agreement was negotiated between Aer Rianta and the U.S.S.R.’s Ministry of Civil Aviation. This enabled Aer Rianta to sell Soviet aviation fuel to other airlines which in turn, offset Aeroflot’s hard currency operating costs at Shannon.
Later in 1987 Aer Rianta would also become involved in the repainting and refurbishment of Aeroflot aircraft at Shannon when a dedicated painting hangar and refurbishing facility was constructed at Shannon and officially opened in August 1988.
With a view to the promotion of technical transit traffic at Shannon, Aer Rianta approached the U.S. Federal Authorities in the late 1970’s to establish United States pre-clearance for passengers at Shannon. It was intended to follow on the lines of such facilities at Canadian Airports. Following various negotiations which culminated in an inter-governmental agreement between Ireland and the United States, the U.S. Immigration Pre-Inspection facility was set up on a trial basis in 1986. This proved successful, and a permanent facility was constructed and opened in 1988. It proved very popular with both terminal and transit passengers. It was the first of its kind in Europe and represented another innovation at Shannon Airport.
Having achieved so much at Shannon, the Airport team set their sights higher and sought to use the hard earned reputation to create commercial opportunities abroad. Early in 1988 Aer Rianta and Aeroflot established a joint venture company, “Aerofirst”, to set up and operate the first duty free shop in the former Soviet Union at Moscow's Sheremetyevo 2 International Airport. The shop was opened on 1 May 1988.
As a result Aer Rianta International (ARI) was formed as a subsidiary of Aer Rianta based at Shannon Airport.
http://www.shannonairport.ie/gns/about-us/history-of-shannon-airport.aspx
 
The Junkers prototype should be the EF 127 - their prototype designs had the EF prefix and anything that reached the hardware stage would get an RLM number.
 
Anybody who saw any hints as to what the Junkers prototype crash might mean? Is it industrial sabotage?
If the Americans find out what happened to their nuclear program this probably would be seen as a reasonable response.
 
Anybody who saw any hints as to what the Junkers prototype crash might mean? Is it industrial sabotage?
If the Americans find out what happened to their nuclear program this probably would be seen as a reasonable response.

I think more likely it's just the problem with standing on the leading edge of technology - sometimes you fall off.
This is just one of those times. The engineers will work from the remains and the test pilots' logs and the next version will not have this fault.
It may have a brand new one but that's how development is really.
 
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