An important point for the future is that Europe managed the USSR on their own. Here we have a forced cooperation that could be used to build something bigger. France and Germany were on the way to normalize relations, see the Verdun get togethers, and now that they could include much of East Europe, I think we could see a Greater European Economic Zone to help rebuild and bring the economies back from the war footing.
Britain is the odd man out here, they still have the Empire and Comonwealth. So they are pulled into some other directions. But they too should be interested in some integration into the European Market sphere. Not to forget Australia and co. that benefited from German industry and money.

On the other hand the USA are also on the outside of the group. They lost prestige in their dealings with the USSR and Japan. And so will be hard pressed to leverage much influence. Also they do not get the double windfalls of German knowlage and human capital from two won World Wars. Here they will be forced to relay far more on themself and could so be hindered much more. Mostly in that they are not the only power left on the world (Europe is not a rubble heap in TTL) and they do not hold the tech edge in many / most fields.
So they will be hard pressed to gain the status of OTL. And their economic overdominance will not materialize without their ability to force oil sales to be done in doller. So we will most likely not see the Dollar as the predominant currency for so long.
 
Tilo was among them
quite done with Tilo
Considering Tilo's resume with both a PLM and university level education he would have made the cut for the Reichswehr after 1920. That sort of talent is rare, any HR type who fails to retain such needs to be fired.

I would suspect that he is going back to Uni but the military variant.

Also he must be from the single highest decorated family in the Wehrmacht. Daddy probably has enough decorations to garnish a christmas tree(classified as top-secret). Then (Ober)Stabsfeldwebel Jost, on the leading edge of combat during the fighting with the Soviets + Spain. And Oberstleutnant Lutz has the PLM as well for making twenty kills.
 
at best they got maybe 15 years, and at worst 10, before either the British or the American finally crack either how to build a Nuclear weapon
Don't forget the French (who OTL 1939 would have looked like the Power most likely to crack the secrets of the atom under Joliot-Curie and his institute) some good scientists and some good spies and the Italians (who have Firmi and Guido Pontecorvo (spied for the Russians and now probably being run by Abwehr but still needs to justify his existence) and Italian intelligence was very good in WW2. Not up to the Russians but better than Germany. And even after all the dust has settled Russia will have good physicists and good spies.
I liked the Thorium reactor idea. Atomic energy TTL likely to be more advanced than OTL. OTL Britain, USSR and USA were all copying each other's homework and everyone else trying to catch up so approaches taken were very homogenuous. TTL the British, French, Germans, Americans and, in time, Russians, Japanese, Chinese and Koreans all doing tightly national projects a variety of approaches likely to be tried and a wider range of spin-off technologies and science.
 
Considering Tilo's resume with both a PLM and university level education he would have made the cut for the Reichswehr after 1920. That sort of talent is rare, any HR type who fails to retain such needs to be fired.

I would suspect that he is going back to Uni but the military variant.

Also he must be from the single highest decorated family in the Wehrmacht. Daddy probably has enough decorations to garnish a christmas tree(classified as top-secret). Then (Ober)Stabsfeldwebel Jost, on the leading edge of combat during the fighting with the Soviets + Spain. And Oberstleutnant Lutz has the PLM as well for making twenty kills.

As her journalistic debut Gianna gets a human-interest story accepted for the Metro section: "The Schultzes - A Very Decorated Family" featuring Tilo, Lutz and Jost. She didn't mention their father, Johan. In a fit of whimsy the Art Department sketched a Christmas tree with a pair of PLMs at the top and the branches festooned with medals, rank symbols and badges
 
On the other hand the USA are also on the outside of the group. They lost prestige in their dealings with the USSR and Japan.
The US has not only lost prestige, but influence. Unlike OTL they will have little soft power in SE Asia or S America, and none in Europe. Exports will be poor for high tech goods, but okay for agricultural produce/low tech goods. I can foresee that the country will become quite impoverished with little investment in education, and I can't see any reason why the troubles in the south of the country will not continue due to the economic problems. The wealthy will become more wealthy and poor more poor. This is going to set up the right sort of conditions for an extreme right wing/christian fundamentalist government.
 
The US has not only lost prestige, but influence. Unlike OTL they will have little soft power in SE Asia or S America, and none in Europe. Exports will be poor for high tech goods, but okay for agricultural produce/low tech goods. I can foresee that the country will become quite impoverished with little investment in education, and I can't see any reason why the troubles in the south of the country will not continue due to the economic problems. The wealthy will become more wealthy and poor more poor. This is going to set up the right sort of conditions for an extreme right wing/christian fundamentalist government.
I would not go that far, but that the USA could slide back in social and economic questions is a possibility. Maybe they fall into the "resource export trap" where they sell raw resources but their producing sector is less well developed.
On the other side could the more successful Germany influence the economy away from pure capitalism into a Social Market Economy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
That could dampen some of the problems of OTL Imo and may dampen the Boom and Bust cycles somewhat.
 
Part 41, Chapter 523
Chapter Five Hundred Twenty-Three


4th February 1946

Berlin

Perhaps it was the case studies that Kat was going over in her classes. Or it was the abnormal psychology that Gianna had her own reasons to study lately but that Monday morning Kat came in worried about her own mental health. Once again, she was certain that there was something very wrong with her. This time she was scared that she was suffering from a serious personality disorder. Peter was glad that he had warned Doctor Tangeman that this was coming. The previous Saturday her friend and mentor, not to mention Peter’s Sister-in-Law, Maria Holz-Acker had given birth to a healthy baby boy. These sorts of things had tended to trigger an existential crisis for Kat whenever they happened. The fact that it coincided with the anniversary of the Reichstag bombing didn’t help matters. In this case she was convinced that there was a good chance that she was a sociopath.

“If I am, I’m the last person who’d be aware of it” Kat said emphatically.

“You are not sociopath” Peter said, “I’ve seen you regret plenty of things you’ve done and go out of your way to put others first.”

“But what about what happened on Saturday?” Kat replied “I had Maria’s baby in my arms and I just wanted to run away. I felt totally empty.”

“I don’t think that is as far out of the ordinary as you seem to think” Doctor Tangeman said, “Not every woman wants or feels the same things. I’m more interested in this feeling of being empty or hollow that you’ve described before.”

“It is just how it is” Kat replied, “I get told I should feel a certain way and I generally don’t.”

“You don’t what?” Peter asked.

“Feel anything at all” Kat answered.

Peter had noticed that Doctor Tangeman had tilted her notepad, so Peter could see it. Coping Mechanism was written and underlined. It was an assessment that he had to agree with. Any time Kat felt overwhelmed by a situation she didn’t allow herself to feel anything at all.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The celebration was over, but the hangover was still on going. Emil had bucked convention by staying with Maria through the delivery. He had promised her that he would be at her side through it all. Normally men were encouraged to go to the waiting room, smoke cigars and drink whiskey on the sly, not that Emil hadn’t engaged in plenty of that later. No one in the hospital were willing to say no to either Emil or Peter. The result was that Emil was there when his son was born in the morning hours of the 2nd of February.

Zella Marie had been named for Emil’s mother, that had actually been Maria’s choice. This time they had agreed that if it was a boy they would name him for the close friends who had seen Emil through the difficult times, it was just a question of the order. Piers Sjosted and Walter Horst had seen Emil over the top of Souville Hill. Augustus Lang had been Emil’s friend through University and a revolution. Maria had put her foot down on what she did not want the first name to be, so the result was that they had settled on Walter Augustus Piers Holz. Maria had been considering Katherine if it had been a girl, a chilling thought.

Emil was reminded of his resent elevation when the birth announcement had turned into front page news. The whole Markgraf von Holz thing. His son would go through the world as Walter von Holz, for good or ill. The Press had been happy to cover the story as a distraction from the uncertainty of the new post war world order and the recent elections that had ended with no major party holding an outright majority. The result was that the talks to form a new government were dragging on.

There had been an aspect to this that he’d not considered when he was summoned to the von Richthofen townhouse. To have a drink with Manfred von Richthofen in his study.

“This is actually quite good for you” Manfred said, “Whether you care about it or not, the Nation that existed when we were children is very much still there under the surface.”

“What are you suggesting?” Emil asked.

“Not to slight your daughter” Manfred said, “But the Junkers will be a whole lot happier with you having a son and heir to carry on your name.”

“What would the problem with Zella be?” Emil asked.

“You saw Käte and Helene downstairs?” Manfred asked in reply.

Emil nodded.

“The two of them are busy spending me into bankruptcy as we speak” Manfred said, “And I still have two other daughters who are eventually going to get married as well and I don’t want to get started on Helene’s taste in men.”

That was taking things a touch too far. Emil had it on good authority, namely Maria’s, that the big wedding had been Manfred’s idea. How was he supposed to know that his wife and daughter would then run with it? Emil might have warned him if Manfred had asked. Apparently, it had been to stall Helene in hopes that she would eventually change her mind about Johannes Mischner or to give enough time for some other development to happen. Helene hadn’t changed her mind, Hans had made it through the Manchurian/Korean campaign unscathed and the Mischner family’s upward social mobility had kept pace with the Richthofen family.

The truth was that Emil knew Hans Mischner. He was one of Horst’s people and a highly decorated Hauptmann in 140th “Souville” Regiment. The Regiment might be very different from when he’d been a Platoon Leader in it, being part of a mechanized Panzer Corps “Dragoon” Division these days, but it still held a special place for him. The irony was that Helene had been attracted to a daring Cavalry Officer of sorts. Except for the fact that Hans was 17 or 18 centimeters taller than Manfred they were a lot alike.

“If that’s your opinion” Emil replied.

“No matter” Manfred said, “Listening to me complain about things is not why I called you up here. I’m sure by now that you’ve heard that you’re on the short list to be the next Commander in Chief of the OKL?”

Emil was aware of that.

“I’m telling you right now that you’re going to be coming in right as one of the biggest pissing matches is getting started” Manfred said, “There are a number of things that you need to understand…”
 
Last edited:
More good stuff; it just keeps coming.
If the Teller story comes out in 75 years or so, or even just rumors of it, then it will be a source of timelines on AH.com, and plenty of conspiracy theories.

If enough leaks out soon, then some conspiracy theories might get started. If someone guesses too much, and is right without even realizing it, might someone try to silence them--thus proving that there was something behind it.

The events with Teller have all sorts of things that would play well in the USA. Black "terrorists" involved with the Abwher, an incompetent FBI director, sinister agents, a stolen superbomb.

Remember, too, the atomic bomb was long since a staple of science fiction; the concept is well known. By this point, I could see people not in the know about weapons develoment programs suggesting to parliament/congress/tin-pot dictator of the week, "Use Einstien's theories--make an atomic bomb!"
 
Last edited:
I would not go that far, but that the USA could slide back in social and economic questions is a possibility. Maybe they fall into the "resource export trap" where they sell raw resources but their producing sector is less well developed.
On the other side could the more successful Germany influence the economy away from pure capitalism into a Social Market Economy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
That could dampen some of the problems of OTL Imo and may dampen the Boom and Bust cycles somewhat.
Agreed I may be going over the top, but we need a new big bad. I wonder what happened to Charles E. Coughlin ITTL.
 
China is going to see itself surrounded by allies of Germany, such as Vietnam, Korea, Taiwan (which they objected to), Russia, maybe an independent Manchuria, and with the possible friendship of their respective Emperors, Japan.
With that in mind only the United States has the economic strength to counterbalance Germany.
So China might not like having the United States as an ally, but they are the only one available to them.

As for Emil Holz, I think that the top job in the Luftwaffe is going to be "Pilots Only" and I think with the upcoming budget cuts, the Fallschimjager are on the chopping block.

Maybe there might be a commission on the reform and realignment of the military and Emil Hold could be a part of it along with Admiral von Schmidt for the KLM.
In this commission the Fallschimjager are transferred to the army and the Fallschimjager becomes more of an Air Mobile/Air Assault helicopter borne unit but still with airborne parachute training.
The Budget I think will be split in three equal parts between the services like it is now in OTL United States.

As for Emil, I think that the best job for him would to be the Inspector General of the OKW and from there become the head of OKW as a compromise candidate between the Heer and the Luftwaffe.
 
As for Emil Holz, I think that the top job in the Luftwaffe is going to be "Pilots Only" and I think with the upcoming budget cuts, the Fallschimjager are on the chopping block.

Except for one important detail, the person at the top of the pyramid of the Luftwaffe would need to understand the entire mission of the service branch, not just the 10 to 20% that is most visible. That is the odd little detail of Airforces, the vast majority of personnel don't work aboard aircraft. For every pilot there are 8 or 9 people who might never set foot aboard an aircraft. Mechanics, radar and radio operators, base security (which is the actual job of the Fallschermjager during peacetime and that is about to get a lot more important), air traffic controllers, dozens of different types of specialists and logistics experts just to name a few.
 
I hope that, when the dust settles, ground attack is still considered important. After all, no matter how good your air control is, if you don't make sure that your people are the ones with boots on the ground, you are just looking down, but do not own the place.
 
China is going to see itself surrounded by allies of Germany, such as Vietnam, Korea, Taiwan (which they objected to), Russia, maybe an independent Manchuria, and with the possible friendship of their respective Emperors, Japan.
With that in mind only the United States has the economic strength to counterbalance Germany.
So China might not like having the United States as an ally, but they are the only one available to them.

As for Emil Holz, I think that the top job in the Luftwaffe is going to be "Pilots Only" and I think with the upcoming budget cuts, the Fallschimjager are on the chopping block.

Maybe there might be a commission on the reform and realignment of the military and Emil Hold could be a part of it along with Admiral von Schmidt for the KLM.
In this commission the Fallschimjager are transferred to the army and the Fallschimjager becomes more of an Air Mobile/Air Assault helicopter borne unit but still with airborne parachute training.
The Budget I think will be split in three equal parts between the services like it is now in OTL United States.

As for Emil, I think that the best job for him would to be the Inspector General of the OKW and from there become the head of OKW as a compromise candidate between the Heer and the Luftwaffe.
Dude, have you ever bloody read, like the last TEN posts?

Because for all that you just said I'm scratching my head about WHAT made you said this.

Emil Von Holz has been slotted as the successor of Manfred Von Richthofen as the next Commander in chief of the Luftwaffe and the OKL.

Holz has Jack shit to do in the OKW as he's Paras, thus Luftwaffe and under (or in command now) of the OKL.

As such, the only way in which he would LET the Paras, the Corps that HE forged from the ground be taken by the Heer, it would be when hell freezes over.

Furthermore, the cuts would be based on numbers and quality of units. What kind of stoned logic would drive anyone to dismiss 3 Divisions of Paras when you can dismiss close to the triple of Infantry and Panzer combined, and STILL have intact a capacity for first strike as you keep a highly skilled Shock Infantry easily and quickly deployable?

Jacob Von Schmidt it has just been promoted to the position of Commander of the KLM, as anything else would have the Navy AND the German people to the edge of a riot, and he's making the Reichstag nervous given the sheer cult to the "Nelson of the Modern Age" or the "Undefeated Admiral"

Seriously..... what happened to you to make such gaff!?
 
Dude, have you ever bloody read, like the last TEN posts?

Because for all that you just said I'm scratching my head about WHAT made you said this.

Emil Von Holz has been slotted as the successor of Manfred Von Richthofen as the next Commander in chief of the Luftwaffe and the OKL.

Holz has Jack shit to do in the OKW as he's Paras, thus Luftwaffe and under (or in command now) of the OKL.

As such, the only way in which he would LET the Paras, the Corps that HE forged from the ground be taken by the Heer, it would be when hell freezes over.

Furthermore, the cuts would be based on numbers and quality of units. What kind of stoned logic would drive anyone to dismiss 3 Divisions of Paras when you can dismiss close to the triple of Infantry and Panzer combined, and STILL have intact a capacity for first strike as you keep a highly skilled Shock Infantry easily and quickly deployable?

Jacob Von Schmidt it has just been promoted to the position of Commander of the KLM, as anything else would have the Navy AND the German people to the edge of a riot, and he's making the Reichstag nervous given the sheer cult to the "Nelson of the Modern Age" or the "Undefeated Admiral"

Seriously..... what happened to you to make such gaff!?
My own half assed none evidence based sleep deprived brain, but as this is NOT MY TIMELINE my thoughts and opinions are just that.

It is just that there is going to be major reductions in all of the armed services budgets that for the Luftwaffe the main focus is going to be jets and rockets, and the Fallschimjager in the last war served as light infantry in Army Group North.

What Emil Holz has going for him is that he is a very good politician when it comes to fighting for what he wants and that is just what the Luftwaffe needs right now.

And when did von Schmidt get appointed to be the Grand Admiral of the KLM?. I must have missed that.

Once again my apologises to Peabody-Martini and the other readers.
 
Diplomaticaly the USA are in deep poodoo. They first forced the Entente to end the war very favorable for Germany. And then they are cought in the unenviable position that they supplied the Spanish Civil War, well maybe they also started it...
And then they traded with the USSR and Japan until it was very clear that it was very unpopular with near everybody and even longer...

So many Nations will think very carefully about their ties with the USA.

They may trade with them but I highly doubt that they will like them. And while Germany and Europe may be on Chinas sh*t list for now, I think the deeds of the Japanese will sour the relations to the USA far more.
 
The events with Teller have all sorts of things that would play well in the USA. Black "terrorists" involved with the Abwher, an incompetent FBI director, sinister agents, a stolen superbomb.

ITTL, if you posted this on the AH analogue you'd have a mod on you...

Tex-Bear said:
We don't take to conspiracy theorists round here, it's on the 8 ways to crash land so kindly quit with that right now.

Damn - they're leaking through already. x'D

I joke about this, but it's something that, like real life, is so ridiculous, it's perfectly credible. So in that respect, ITTL, if there's a AH.com analogue, then trying to post some of the stuff that we as readers know about from the story as a WI would just get shot down in seconds. Yet the story as PM presents it is credible.
 
ITTL, if you posted this on the AH analogue you'd have a mod on you...

Damn - they're leaking through already. x'D

I joke about this, but it's something that, like real life, is so ridiculous, it's perfectly credible. So in that respect, ITTL, if there's a AH.com analogue, then trying to post some of the stuff that we as readers know about from the story as a WI would just get shot down in seconds. Yet the story as PM presents it is credible.

There's no Internet yet but somebody could start publishing a weekly newsletter, kinda like a fanzine or a 'shopper' with all the ads. Start with a couple of afictionados publishing their stuff, then including mailed-in comments, and finally people contributing their own timelines. If somebody started with the OTL Pacific War there'd be cries of the equivalent of "ASB! ASB!"
 
Part 41, Chapter 524
Chapter Five Hundred Twenty-Four


8th February 1946

Berlin

Peter was typing up the conclusions from his notes for the week. At the meeting that afternoon he had talked about the interesting theory that he had about some of the patients. It had started with Katherine’s admission that whenever she felt emotions she couldn’t handle she would wall it off. Interestingly it was this compartmentalization that enabled Kat to be Kat. When she was in a situation where she should be paralyzed with fear she was able to function. However, it also made it difficult for her in almost every other area of her life. She might not feel intense fear or anger, but she had trouble with love or even happiness.

Peter was starting to wonder if that was somehow linked to Kat’s depression. Her friend Helene had said she thought that much, that Kat walked numbly through each day until it all built up to certain point and she could hardly move, walling herself from the world to keep from going insane. Peter had discovered that there was a similar pattern among the subjects in the study, some craved isolation, others drugs or alcohol. They would stride like gods across the battlefield and then struggled in civilian life. The odd part was that it was unclear if this behavior was learned or was something that many of the individuals who tended to survive were capable of. It was starting to bother him that the OKW was very interested in if either was the truth. Was he helping them create or identify more effective killers in the future?


Rural Bavaria

Emil got out of the car, this military installation on the edge of the Forest was one of the most closely held secrets of the German State. Manfred von Richthofen had told him of this place and others like it, how it had related to the future of the Luftwaffe. Up by the Baltic Sea was the test range where the Aggregat series of rockets were continuing in development. The airfields where fighters, attack aircraft and bombers were scattered throughout the Empire. The Divisions of Fallschirmjäger were at those airfields walking the perimeter but that was just a cover. The reality was that the best trained light infantry available were rotated through this place without ever knowing the full import. It was the real reason why as much as the Heer didn’t like it, even the paired back Fallschirmjäger would never be under their command and this place was no longer under their domain. The Heer was traditionally the wardens of the borders. The Fallschirmjäger on the other hand had become the guards of the State’s deepest secrets.

Nessa von Schmidt was there to greet him as he walked towards the buildings. Lang had mentioned what this place was like, especially in the winter. It felt colder than the North Pole, there seemed to be a coldness of the spirit here. Hardly a surprise considering this was one of the staging areas for Quartum.

“I wish you were here under better circumstances, Sir” Nessa said.

When Emil had learned that it would be Jacob von Schmidt’s daughter leading this tour he feared that she would be as cold and distant as her father. Instead Nessa was quite different. Still though Emil thought she didn’t seem to be happy to be here.

“What’s your opinion of this project, Doctor?” Emil asked as he fell into step with her.

Nessa paused for a moment to think. “It’s a necessary evil” She said, “Once we bring forth this Golem we might have trouble controlling it.”

That was an odd choice of words but fitting. Even Emil had seen the film featuring the Golem of Prague, the message of hubris and losing control of your own creation. Emil certainly had the impression that was entirely too believable. He’d been briefed regarding the incident involving the rogue scientist, as a soldier he could appreciate the thought of a rival power knocked out for a generation by their own weapons. But he’d also concluded that the world would not be well served by having a Nation’s capital blown up before the world.

Lang had believed that the world needed the Americans to be fat, happy and focused inward. Emil’s impression was that they had gotten only two of those things, sort of. They had played the war to their best advantage, selling materials to whoever could pay upfront and not having the destruction that was consuming much of the rest of the world not happen within their own borders. That was proof enough that they weren’t stupid. However, they clearly weren’t happy. Emil had heard a rebroadcast of Thomas Dewey’s recent State of the Union Address. It seemed that America was currently in the throes of a crisis brought on by the self-inflicted wounds of bigotry and a failure to live up to their own ideals. The materials that Abwehr had taken from Chicago were the result of paranoia, that another nation in the world would gain an insurmountable advantage over them. They had no idea that it was already very late in the game.

They walked through the silent endless hallways of the facility, the white floors and walls, doors painted grey. Emil knew it was an illusion. A very effective one. Some of the most dangerous things in the world made a point of looking boring. The elevator they boarded descended rapidly into the cavernous laboratory that was a hive of activity.

“The core recovered in Chicago was of ultra-pure plutonium” Nessa said, “It seems that the working theory was that impurities in the cores resulted in their failure to reach critical mass.”

Emil could see from the expression on her face what she thought of that theory. But then her work had never been subjected to infiltration and sabotage. His understanding was that the core in question had been cut up and was currently giving them an understanding of what the Americans had been up to. “Has it proven different from our own efforts?” He asked.

“Not as much as I might like” Nessa replied, “The dozen implosion type devices that we never needed, thank God, were nearly identical. Form following function it seems.”
 
Last edited:
Interesting...so Germany has (probably) The Bomb. What they don't have is a certainty that they will work; the gun type is simple enough that a test may not be needed--implosion, less so.
 
Top