Antiserum works by containing antibodies from serum raised against an antigen. Tilo’s serum would contain many different antibodies and in the last 25 years it has been possible to clone such antibodies for mass production. Polyclonal serum could be made in Rabbits or horses against the bacterial toxin.
I do However doubt they would be effective post-exposure and its not at all a realistic prophylactic. Notably, even todays vaccines are not very effective (Usamriid staff with potential exposure gets booster shots every 6-12 months).
The only realistic option in this time frame is to identify a weakened strain, but that has been the problem with yersenia and anthrax as well. Bacteria without the toxins are not protective and with they are dangerous. What is really needed is toxin production and inactivation to spike up weakened vaccines. Potentially a combination of inactivated and weakened strains (eg. The old polio vaccines). This could be done with the technology of the day and with lots of test subjects, but it doesn’t Seem like the Germans have that kind of mentality ITTL. Notably, a few anthrax vaccines based on weakened strains was made for cattle, but considered too dangerous for humans. It, and a yersenia vaccine like it could in principle be safer with an inactivated prime, but then again, the alumn adjuvant of the day may make it worse.
PS, you dont need the antigens from Tilo, now adays you could maybe identify a protective correlate using antigen from the bacterium and then his blood to see what he had reacted with. However thats a western blot and is late 70’s tech:http://www.genhunter.com/western-blot-inventor/
And even then, using this info for vaccine design is not easy.
The blood group has little importance as the red blood cells are not used.

Good reply, you appear to have a bit more knowledge on this than do I. One option they may have, given the earlier research is irradiating the bacteria to kill/inactivate it. Memory says that is how the current plague vaccine works, though it requires multiple boosters since the inactivated bacterial vaccines don't produce a great immune response.
 
Good reply, you appear to have a bit more knowledge on this than do I. One option they may have, given the earlier research is irradiating the bacteria to kill/inactivate it. Memory says that is how the current plague vaccine works, though it requires multiple boosters since the inactivated bacterial vaccines don't produce a great immune response.
That is exactly the case. They need the bacterium, but they dont need Tilo. And its not going to be a nice vaccine for the recipient. And it Will take time to figure this out.
 
I have a feeling that the Imperial Guillotines will be busy. In OTL, the guillotine was the method of execution the Germans used until will after the war, and it has the advantage of not needing the skill of a hangman to do it right.
 

Md139115

Banned
I have a feeling that the Imperial Guillotines will be busy. In OTL, the guillotine was the method of execution the Germans used until will after the war, and it has the advantage of not needing the skill of a hangman to do it right.

That's a question I always wanted to ask:

Why is the guillotine not a more popular means of execution? It seems much cleaner, cheaper, less painful, and more reliable than all of the alternatives.
 
That's a question I always wanted to ask:

Why is the guillotine not a more popular means of execution? It seems much cleaner, cheaper, less painful, and more reliable than all of the alternatives.

If I had to guess, probably a very poor reputation garnered due to the French Revolution. As per less painful, that's probably not a consideration given to anyone who is headed there
 

Md139115

Banned
As per less painful, that's probably not a consideration given to anyone who is headed there

In a sane world, I agree, but we live in a world where certain countries (in particular the U.S.) have scruples about killing someone in a painful manner. Right now, lethal injection is under threat because the couple hours and writhing by some of the sentenced seems like "cruel and unusual punishment."

It certainly is not cleaner. Lot of pressure in those arteries.

Maybe not the best choice of words, what I was trying to say is that it's more straightforward than messing around with firing squads or drop weights or fatal doses.

As an added bonus, it is "cleaner" in that it is one of the few execution methods that lets one harvest all of the organs without them being damaged.
 
..As per less painful, that's probably not a consideration given to anyone who is headed there

Although that said, no one has complained afterwards...

Britain stuck with hanging and that was believed to be the quickest method, the idea being that if it's done right, the neck would be broken at around C1 or C2 meaning that everything below that point just stopped working there and then. Obviously the brain would remain conscious for a while afterwards, but then in theory, the same would happen with any other method of execution.

As with all methods of execution, to be effective and as close to painless as possible, it has to be done right, get any of them wrong and it's a slow, drawn out death for the recipient.
 
That's a question I always wanted to ask:

Why is the guillotine not a more popular means of execution? It seems much cleaner, cheaper, less painful, and more reliable than all of the alternatives.
Pretty much as @Gudestein said.
To expand a little bit, it's unsightly. The execution is considered to affect both the executioner and the witnesses. In the past an execution was usually a public event, a method to show the viewers that 'This is the fate of who does that particular deed'. It was meant to be a bit... violent and messy.
Nowdays, the mentality is different. The US, the largest proponent for capital punishment in Western society prefer using methods like Lethal Injection and Gas Chamber, even if they (arguably) have a better chance of botching the job, because there's no blood, no bullet holes, no snapping neck, no gasping for air, no smoking jerking body. Whether or not it is any more cruel for the person being executed is not the point, not matter how much some like to pretend it is.
 

Md139115

Banned
Pretty much as @Gudestein said.
To expand a little bit, it's unsightly. The execution is considered to affect both the executioner and the witnesses. In the past an execution was usually a public event, a method to show the viewers that 'This is the fate of who does that particular deed'. It was meant to be a bit... violent and messy.
Nowdays, the mentality is different. The US, the largest proponent for capital punishment in Western society prefer using methods like Lethal Injection and Gas Chamber, even if they (arguably) have a better chance of botching the job, because there's no blood, no bullet holes, no snapping neck, no gasping for air, no smoking jerking body. Whether or not it is any more cruel for the person being executed is not the point, not matter how much some like to pretend it is.

I concede; that is a half-decent argument.

Must build robot executioner to do task in windowless room.
 
Without getting into the morality of capital punishment (not a good discussion for this thread, IMVHO) but sticking with the practicalities of it, the guillotine has a major advantage over hanging. Hanging requires an expert to get it right, whereas making a heavy blade slide cleanly in a track is not hard, nor is strapping someone into place. In OTL, Germany and France used it until the mid 20th century as the official method of execution for most prisoners, although other methods were used in special cases, such as firing squad or hanging for spies and military prisoners on occasion.
Firing squad also doesn't need an expert, merely a bunch of competent soldiers, but even so, an officer would keep a loaded pistol at hand to finish the job if need be.
Question for PM: What is the official method of execution in Germany at the time in this timeline?
 
Pretty much as @Gudestein said.
To expand a little bit, it's unsightly. The execution is considered to affect both the executioner and the witnesses. In the past an execution was usually a public event, a method to show the viewers that 'This is the fate of who does that particular deed'. It was meant to be a bit... violent and messy.
Nowdays, the mentality is different. The US, the largest proponent for capital punishment in Western society prefer using methods like Lethal Injection and Gas Chamber, even if they (arguably) have a better chance of botching the job, because there's no blood, no bullet holes, no snapping neck, no gasping for air, no smoking jerking body. Whether or not it is any more cruel for the person being executed is not the point, not matter how much some like to pretend it is.

Yeah. What people really want is a method of changing the condemned prisoner from alive to dead at the flick of a switch with no change in appearance and no embarrassing emission of bodily fluids.
 
It's probably a matter of narrative, of implied message. In the old days it was more 'If you also dare to challenge our order, you'll also piss yourself slowly choking at the end of a rope', a bit crude, nowadays it's probably more of a 'If you get uppity, we'll just zap you like a bug, or gas you or poison you, like the lowborn, inferior vermin you are'
 
The matter here is different.

The executions are likely to be, depending on the gravity of the crime and if they were War Crimes or Crimes Against Humanity, will go from Death by Firing Squad, something that would be seen as the most honored form of death, and considered equal to death in the battlefield by the Japanese, passing by Guillotine, likely to be a "commoner's death"...

.... . and finally Death by Hanging, reserved for pretty much the entire crew, IJA soldiers in Harbin and whoever was in the direct line of command of unit 731.
 
“I agree that it was an inappropriate comment” Tangeman said, “Was punching him in the face the right response?”

“You would never punch someone in the face unless you want to break the bones in your hand” Kat said matter of fact.

As my Tae Kwan Do instructor said, "Hit the soft spots with your hand, hit the hard spots with an implement."
 
Part 38, Chapter 472
Chapter Four Hundred Seventy-Two


10th July 1945

Artem, Russia

One of the oldest jokes about the military was that shit rolls downhill. Now that he was high atop that hill Emil was discovering that smoke definitely got blown back up. He had discovered that Peter’s rosy assessment of the situation was wildly optimistic. Not that Emil actually blamed Peter, it was just how these things worked. Peter had brought in some of the foremost experts on infectious disease in and had leaned on them hard to get results quickly. As Emil saw it, that was exactly what Peter’s job was. They had eventually blown smoke up Peter's ass, which he had in turn done to Emil. Peter’s “verge” probably involved months if not years. The only real harm was that a Marine Fähnrich had been unnecessarily detained for a few extra days after they had figured out why he hadn’t gotten sick so that the Doctors, including Peter, could experiment with him. Considering what Emil knew about the Marine Infantry it had probably served everyone well to have that man not out causing trouble.

There was an existing vaccine against the plague, it had been around for decades but it was of limited effectiveness against the strain they were dealing with. And there was an experimental drug that the British had provided that was effective against all bacterial infections but that was available in limited quantities. It had proven far more effective to simply have the men not contract it through good practices. For that Emil had Horst who was proving to be an unholy terror in the best possible way. God help the poor Soldat who thought that he could slack off without Horst finding out, because no one else would. Units that had thought that they would take weeks to return to combat readiness were finding out just how wrong they were.

Unfortunately, the Press had discovered Horst as well. Horst had reached the pinnacle of the career for a professional soldier, twice. Although it wasn’t entirely unprecedented, Michel Ney who had been a General under Napoleon Bonaparte for example. Still though, he had done it by being stubborn and persistent. As the Press was learning he was well informed and had an opinion about everything. Horst had made some decidedly undiplomatic comments regarding the French and Americans. He had also caused a stir when he had stated what he thought the aims of the war were, something to the effect exterminating rats in the walls. Horst was causing headaches for the diplomats and Emil but the Press and the men loved it.


Lake Baikal Region

Hans was tired of riding on this train. The 4th Division had been ordered to prepare for movement and everyone was only given a few hours for everyone to put their affairs in order. When Hans had picked up the phone he had almost called Aunt Marcella’s house by force of habit, it was a call he’d still made but not after he had called Helene first. To say that Helene was angered by this was an understatement. She felt like the whole world was conspiring against her. Hans doubted that was the case except for Field Marshal von Richthofen, he was probably seeing this as an early Christmas present, not that Hans would say that aloud. If he wanted the Bloody Barron’s blessing in marrying Helene then starting a war he couldn’t possibly win was the wrong thing to do.

“EVERYONE LOOK!” Someone in the railcar yelled, this got a few people’s attention, “Trees” that punchline elicited a few groans. That joke had stopped being funny before they had even made it over the Ural Mountains.

Soren was still wearing a plaster bandage on his nose, Kat had done a number on him. As far as Hans was concerned that was punishment enough. Hans had learned what had happened from Helene who had heard it directly from Kat. He’d seldom thought about how his friend’s experiences might have been different from his own but here was a good example. Soren had said that it had just been his father and brothers in the house after his mother had walked out. To have spent childhood and adolescence in a house like that he wouldn’t have known to knock before opening a door. Then Soren being Soren, he had almost escaped from a potentially dangerous situation when he had to open his big mouth and Kat had broken his nose for it. Hans figured that the broken nose was as much punishment as he had needed. Soren didn’t dare complain because if the Company learned that he’d been injured like that by a woman half his size then he would never hear the end of it. There was also the matter of Kat’s threats, one would have to be crazier than she was to call her bluff.

Hans looked out over the trees at what they were saying was a lake. It looked like the ocean from Hans perspective. This was an adventure when Hans thought about it. He was going to the Russian Far East and from there perhaps into Manchuria or Chōsen. The next ocean he saw would probably be the Pacific. That was a lot further than he had ever imagined that he would ever go. He had never had the itch to travel like Kat did but he could understand the appeal.
 
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