Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread III

The subject of America comes up ever hundred pages or so... And I haven't changed my mind since the first time it came up. This is a story which focuses on a German cast, America is largely irrelevant except as an antagonist. It really doesn't effect my enjoyment of the story in the least. Besides we think of America as a natural jugernought based on otl. But before WWI it was a less developed country then Argentina. Without the pressure of otl wwii and the cold war... America wasn't and isn't garenteed to become a bloody superpower. Yeah America has advantages but so do other also ran country's.
 
So, I finished my second reread of this today, and while I understand that this is a bit of an America-screw, it's still a good read, and I can't wait to read more about Sigi on the moon.

If I were to pick the, "most implausible part of TTL," it would be about the Night of Whispers. Thermobarics are powerful, but not THAT powerful.

Still, I love reading this story anyway, and hope for many more updates!!!
 
If I were to pick the, "most implausible part of TTL," it would be about the Night of Whispers. Thermobarics are powerful, but not THAT powerful.

Thermobarics are powerful when paired with nerve gas in the war heads. You might remember the films that were distributed to both the Soviet and Japanese leaderships when the end games of the respective wars were playing out.

And don‘t forget the Japanese man disfigured by the ‘Night of the Whispers’ who tried to assassinate Kiki when she was sent to Japan by Kira.
 
It might well be that the dice god is always with the Germans atm, but if feels like its gone off the deep end now. Space Travel is one of the most perilous things that man has ever done, but it is a joke. Even with modern Tech, landers still fail when landing on the moon, so I see no reason as to why the Germans in this have had pretty much everything go their own way. Its a bit egregious now. All 4 missions so far have had no issues. Even Apollo wasn't so bloody lucky!
This is P-M's Universe, so the odds of anything & everything are whatever the esteemed author deems them to be. This is an Alternate History, so while what happens in our universe may run by one set of 'natural laws,' an Alternate Universe's laws might contradict those same 'natural laws.' For instance, if P-M wants to change Pi from 3.14159........ to 3.00 in his Universe, well, that is his privilege.

IOTL, there were 135 Shuttle flights, with only 2 failures. That's 1.48% failure rate (if my rusty mathematical figuring is accurate... someone check my numbers, eh?) Apollo only had 11 flights, with 1 ending in death (Apollo 1, fire in Control Module while on the ground, killed all 3 astronauts) for a failure rate of 9.09%. So, in P-M's Universe, the ESA has had one flight ending in death (IIRC), and how many successful flights have there been? I haven't counted or try to guess...don't intend to, either, LOL! But, being relatively failure-free isn't all that unlikely. Especially with Deutschland involved, as they tend to be sticklers for perfection as well as being known as excellent engineers.

Bottom line, this is P-M's Universe so it can mimic ours, or not, dependent on P-M's whims & his storyline. I'm enjoying the ride, reading the story for enjoyment, and not being too critical. Give it a try, eh? Suspend your disbelief for 15 minutes or so a day. Speaking of days, I hope everyone is staying healthy.

Skol, everyone!
 
Last edited:
Thermobarics are powerful when paired with nerve gas in the war heads. You might remember the films that were distributed to both the Soviet and Japanese leaderships when the end games of the respective wars were playing out.

And don‘t forget the Japanese man disfigured by the ‘Night of the Whispers’ who tried to assassinate Kiki when she was sent to Japan by Kira.
Oh, that's fresh in my mind, but a few dozen thermobaric missiles with suboptimal CEP accuracy are not going to wreck a city. Yeah, throwing Sarin and or Tabun afterwards will drive the body count up a lot, but compared to the firebombing of Tokyo IOTL, the Night of Whispers would be in a minor league.
 
This is P-M's Universe, so the odds of anything & everything are whatever the esteemed author deems them to be. This is an Alternate History, so while what happens in our universe may run by one set of 'natural laws,' an Alternate Universe's laws might contradict those same 'natural laws.' For instance, if P-M wants to change Pi from 3.14159........ to 3.00 in his Universe, well, that is his privilege.

IOTL, there were 135 Shuttle flights, with only 2 failures. That's 1.48% failure rate (if my rusty mathematical figuring is accurate... someone check my numbers, eh?) Apollo only had 11 flights, with 1 ending in death (Apollo 1, fire in Control Module while on the ground, killed all 3 astronauts) for a failure rate of 9.09%. So, in P-M's Universe, the ESA has had one flight ending in death (IIRC), and how many successful flights have there been? I haven't counted or try to guess...don't intend to, either, LOL! But, being relatively failure-free isn't all that unlikely. Especially with Deutschland involved, as they tend to be sticklers for perfection as well as being known as excellent engineers.

Bottom line, this is P-M's Universe so it can mimic ours, or not, dependent on P-M's whims & his storyline. I'm enjoying the ride, reading the story for enjoyment, and not being too critical. Give it a try, eh? Suspend your disbelief for 15 minutes or so a day. Speaking of days, I hope everyone is staying healthy.

Skol, everyone!

This. P-M has kept his story consistently in the realms of plausibility - nothing outrageous, no unrealistic Idiot Balls*, a reasonable development of technology - and as long as it’s something that plausibly could happen rather than patently never could? It’s all good.

*In the case of America...as noted, their lack of WWII means that their national development ITTL is entirely plausible.
 
NASA may try to sell to the American people that Apollo IV was a "Successful Failure" as the escape rocket system worked and all the astronauts are still alive.
It looks like that the ITTL Saturn V is on the wrong track and maybe a substantial increase in the budget may fix the problems.
The ESA landing will be compared to the Lindbergh solo flight to Paris (If that still happened ITTL).
 
Part 109, Chapter 1782
Chapter One Thousand Seven Hundred Eighty-Two



30th January 1967

Lunar Surface

The Taxidiotis Program had started in early 1957, so a decade, millions of manhours and billions of Marks had gone into all of this. That was why everything needed to be perfect. However, as Sigi had known her entire life, nothing was ever perfect. Waiting was growing aggravating, because Sigi was in her suit, her nose was itching and there was nothing that could be done about that.

They had depressurized the Landing Module and were waiting for Mission Control to clear them to open the hatch. Sigi understood the reason why, at six o’clock in the evening back home a special was being aired in an International television broadcast that would culminate with the opening of the hatch and Sigi climbing down the ladder at a quarter of seven. This would be in front of one of the LM’s external cameras that had been turned towards the hatch and ladder so everyone would get a good view. She would then make the statement that she had memorized, and Sigi had been informed that riffing on it would not be appreciated. Then the others would follow her out of that Lander, there would a brief ceremony and then they could finally get to work. The need for everything to be carefully staged was a bit irksome.

As they had waited, Pierre and Leonov were fiddling with the array of solar panels to get the optimum amount power for the Lander’s instruments. Pierre was looking at the ohm meter while Leonov turned the crank while using hand gestures to avoid cluttering the radio frequency that the crew was using. Sigi saw it coming well before it happened, but among the crew so things it seemed were inevitable. Leonov turned the crank too far and the power the panels drew suddenly dropped off, Pierre started cursing at him in French. Everyone, including Mission Control could hear that and Sigi knew that careful transcripts were being kept. Who knew what future historians would make of that? What Sigi didn’t know was that Leonov had accidentally turned the panels at an angle to reflect the sunlight back towards Earth. As Leonov turned the crank the other way, fixing the error, millions who were looking at the moon saw the flash of light making the LM Baltic the most seen artifact in human history.

“It’s time, Oberstlieutenant” Sigi heard a voice say in her ear that she knew was from Mission Control.

With that, Sigi got up from her seat and gingerly walked towards the hatch. The gravity was much lower than on Earth and moving in it would take practice. Pierre was right behind her as she opened the hatch, there was a wisp of vapor as the last of the atmosphere left the cabin. The stark landscape of grey rock under a black sky greeted her. Turning around, she started climbing down the ladder, Pierre was photographing every move as he had been instructed. As her instructions, Sigi was giving point by point narration. She felt a bit silly doing it.

Then as her feet touched the ground, Sigi took a breath and recited the line that she had memorized.

“This is but the first step of mankind leaving the cradle to a wider universe…” Sigi recited.



New York City, New York

Parker had his own reasons for coming into the city today. Mostly because he had wanted to watch the Lunar landing without the running commentary that he could expect if he had watched it on any of the televisions on base at Fort Drum. No one there knew about his connection to these events and he would prefer to keep it that way. He had expected his parent’s Manhattan to be empty on Monday afternoon knowing that his father was out of town on business and his mother normally had her weekly bridge game with her circle of friends. It seemed that card game had been called off this week and Parker was sitting on the couch watching television with his mother.

For the last forty-five minutes a documentary had aired about the leadup to Taxidiotis IV and the people involved. Parker recognized that it was slickly produced propaganda. Engineers and technicians were seen assembling the rockets, presumably in Vietnam. It was mentioned that parts for the rockets came from several countries. Then there were short bios of the Astronauts themselves. For Sigi it only mentioned that she had grown up in Potsdam before focusing on her career as a pilot in the German Army. The others were certainly an interesting bunch. The Russian Co-Pilot and Systems Officer were both veterans of the Russian Space Program. It was mentioned that Yuri Gagarin was the survivor of the horrific Vostok 5 incident, the event that had prompted Russia to join the ESA so that greater resources could be brought to the threadbare program. Mission Specialist Hartmann was a test pilot for Junkers Aviation and had returned to flight status after being severely injured in a plane crash. The Science Officer, Pierre-Gilles de Gennes was a genius of some sort, he seemed like a bit of an odd duck to Parker.

“Exactly what is that girl saying?” Parker’s Mother asked.

“She is describing climbing down the ladder” Parker replied.

“Really?”

“Yes”

“That seems a bit silly”

Then Parker saw Sigi step away from the ladder, the image was in grainy color. The only thing that was vivid was the gold of the suit’s visor and the red on the flag patch on the shoulder. The rest might as well have been in monochrome.

Then he heard the statement made by Sigi. It was followed by an open invitation to explore in peace and cooperation.

“That was a wonderful thing she said” Parker’s Mother said as they watched as the Astronauts planted the blue and gold flag of the ESA and then pulled out the bunting, a long streamer containing the flags of all the nations involved with the Taxidiotis Program. There were dozens of them.

“Sigi is glorious” Parker said, “I met her in Germany, she is a relative of the Liaison Officer in Laupheim, so she came around for a few days.”

“So, that’s what has been going on” Parker’s Mother said.

“What’s that supposed to mean?” Parker asked his Mother who just smirked as she watched the television.
 
Last edited:
This is an Alternate History, so while what happens in our universe may run by one set of 'natural laws,' an Alternate Universe's laws might contradict those same 'natural laws.' For instance, if P-M wants to change Pi from 3.14159........ to 3.00 in his Universe, well, that is his privilege.

Only if he wants to move it to ASB. Changing the actual physical laws of nature isn't just Alternate History.
 
Oh, that's fresh in my mind, but a few dozen thermobaric missiles with suboptimal CEP accuracy are not going to wreck a city. Yeah, throwing Sarin and or Tabun afterwards will drive the body count up a lot, but compared to the firebombing of Tokyo IOTL, the Night of Whispers would be in a minor league.
Noted that The Night of Whispers wasn’t up there with the Western Allies’ abilities to cause mass civilian casualties IOTL. However, the Germans ITTL crossed the ‘taboo’ line by their offensive use of a weapon of mass destruction against the Japanese civilian population (even though there were undoubtedly military targets around). The use of nerve gas would’ve resonated with much more horror ITTL’s world compared to a newer, atomic weapon as memories remained of the Germans’ use of gas on the Western Front in the Great War.
 
Last edited:
“This is but the first step of mankind leaving the cradle to a wider universe…”
While it is no "That's one small step for (a) man, one giant leap for mankind" it is perfectly in tune with the occasion.
What this should do is force the reexamination of the role women played in exploration in history.
Now for the hard part, getting back to Earth safely.
 
The Taxidiotis Program had started in early 1957, so a decade, millions of manhours and billions of Marks had gone into all of this. That was why everything needed to be perfect. However, as Sigi had known her entire life, nothing was ever perfect. Waiting was growing aggravating, because Sigi was in her suit, her nose was itching and there was nothing that could be done about that.

Know the feeling thanks to this damn pandemic.

With that, Sigi got up from her seat and gingerly walked towards the hatch. The gravity was much lower than on Earth and moving in it would take practice. Pierre was right behind her as she opened the hatch, there was a wisp of vapor as the last of the atmosphere left the cabin. The stark landscape of grey rock under a black sky greeted her. Turning around, she started climbing down the ladder, Pierre was photographing every move as he had been instructed. As her instructions, Sigi was giving point by point narration. She felt a bit silly doing it.

Then as her feet touched the ground, Sigi took a breath and recited the line that she had memorized.

“This is but the first step of mankind leaving the cradle to a wider universe…” Sigi recited.

Very appropriate First Words. I hope Sigi is prepared for an obscene amount of publicity far in excess of that she garnered for being the first woman in space. I even suspect that some annoying paparazzi-type will unearth her connection to the Imperial Family and blab to the world. Hell, her own mother, if still alive, might do it herself in a bout of pure spite.

Parker had his own reasons for coming into the city today. Mostly because he had wanted to watch the Lunar landing without the running commentary that he could expect if he had watched it on any of the televisions on base at Fort Drum. No one there knew about his connection to these events and he would prefer to keep it that way. He had expected his parent’s Manhattan to be empty on Monday afternoon knowing that his father was out of town on business and his mother normally had her weekly bridge game with her circle of friends. It seemed that card game had been called off this week and Parker was sitting on the couch watching television with his mother.

Parker wanted some privacy to 'moon' over Sigi without getting ribbed over it, because I think he knows that his people would put 2 + 2 together to equal "The Boss has a GERMAN girlfriend!" pretty quickly.

Then he heard the statement made by Sigi. It was followed by an open invitation to explore in peace and cooperation.

“That was a wonderful thing she said” Parker’s Mother said as they watched as the Astronauts planted the blue and gold flag of the ESA and then pulled out the bunting, a long streamer containing the flags of all the nations involved with the Taxidiotis Program. There were dozens of them.

“Sigi is glorious” Parker said, “I met her in Germany, she is a relative of the Liaison Officer in Laupheim, so she came around for a few days.”

“So, that’s what has been going on” Parker’s Mother said.

“What’s that supposed to mean?” Parker asked his Mother who just smirked as she watched the television.

I'm glad they went with the ESA flag with a membership bunting. It should keep the arguments over who owns the moon to a minimum. Guarantee that some enterprising individual is either selling "Moon plots" or is trying to file claims for land & mineral rights up there.

Yes! Parker has been hit hard by Cupid's Arrow. "Sigi is glorious" indeed. Probably said with an overly besotted puppy dog look of adoration on his face as he said it too. We may have another Trans-Atlantic rom,ance on our hands. I'd say his mother will now put some plans to find him a suitable partner to rest and dust of the ones in the maternal memory file labelled "Weddings; Plans for, Eldest Son".

Only if he wants to move it to ASB. Changing the actual physical laws of nature isn't just Alternate History.

Or use magic. As Terry Pratchett did with Going Postal, when B.S. "Bloody Stupid" Johnson used "New Pi" to build a mail sorting machine. Caused all sorts of problems when the postmen found themselves delivering letters BEFORE they had been written.

A mother sees all Parker, a mother sees all...

Only when they want to. History is rife with mothers (& fathers) who are blind to what their offspring are up to.

Noted that The Night of Whispers wasn’t up there with the Western Allies’ abilities to cause mass civilian casualties IOTL. However, the Germans ITTL crossed the ‘taboo’ line by their offensive use of a weapon of mass destruction against the Japanese civilian population (even though there were undoubtedly military targets around). The use of nerve gas would’ve resonated with much more horror ITTL’s world compared to a newer, atomic weapon as memories remained of the Germans’ use of gas on the Western Front in the Great War.

Japan had already crossed that line in China & Korea by using biological weapons AFTER being warned of what would happen if they did so. The UK had a similar retaliation plan in place OTL if Germany had used gas on Britain during Big Mistake Number Two; they planned on carpet bombing the entire country with anthrax. Additionally, the Japanese coastal cities that were hit by the Germans were also major naval facilities, shipyards & ports used to keep the Japanese Army on the Asian mainland supplied and were thus legitimate military targets. Unfortunately, in warfare there are ALWAYS civilians present. The myth of a clean war is just that; a myth.
 

ferdi254

Banned
I am glad PM left it at an itching nose. There are more mundane aspects of being in a space suit for a couple of hours.

It was not only weight and fuel considerations that kept astronaut food extremely condensed in nutrients.
 
Only if he wants to move it to ASB. Changing the actual physical laws of nature isn't just Alternate History.
You miss my point... in an Alternate Universe story, created in the mind of a tale-weaver, the laws of our Universe mean nothing!! The "natural laws" are completely dependent on which of the Multiverses s/he is weaving a tale about.

You bring up ASB. As an explanation of a story taking an unusual track, ASB can work. Take, for instance, S. M. Stirling's Emberverse series. In Dies the Fire, Something happens that causes all high-energy 'things' to no longer work. The Change. After which, things aren't the same; gunpowder no longer goes "Whoosh!!" when lit on fire so firearms no longer go "bang"; nuclear, internal combustion & steam engines cease operation; electricity in batteries, generators, etc., no longer work. But life-forms continue to function; nerves still pass electrochemical messages; brains still think. I won't spoil the story, but at an early point, many people adopt an attitude about the Change - ASB caused it, curse Them!! The cause is revealed at a point in the series (ASB are in the running), but I'm not gonna throw out spoilers in case someone here wants to read more excellent alternate history stories.
 

ferdi254

Banned
I wonder why none of the US screw crew has complained about the 5(!) astronauts ESA sends into space. Two more people mean 66% more weight, food, water and air and a much bigger problem in getting rid of the heat (yes as counterintuitive as it seems that is a problem). And 4 people on the moon means 100% plus on the size of the landing vehicle.

So a Saturn V as impressive as it is would be like an A 340 compared to a B 747.

Oh an btw I would like to see how aircraft development is going. TTL Boeing should be close to the 747, French and the UK should be close to the Concorde and Germany...
 
I wonder why none of the US screw crew has complained about the 5(!) astronauts ESA sends into space. Two more people mean 66% more weight, food, water and air and a much bigger problem in getting rid of the heat (yes as counterintuitive as it seems that is a problem). And 4 people on the moon means 100% plus on the size of the landing vehicle.

So a Saturn V as impressive as it is would be like an A 340 compared to a B 747.

Oh an btw I would like to see how aircraft development is going. TTL Boeing should be close to the 747, French and the UK should be close to the Concorde and Germany...
When you put it that way, it sounds like if the rocket in question was built for something other than Lunar exploration. It is not like if the chief engineer is a complete megalomaniac like Werner von Braun or something... Oh wait...
 
Last edited:
Imagine the British Empire, (which was a 18th to 20th Century Brit-wank OTL - how else would a small island nation end up ruling a quarter of the world?), getting the post WW1 OTL breaks America got in a timeline? It probably wouldn't get past the first two instalments before being shot down and sent to the ASB forum.

[Quietly exits the room with plans of my TL which includes a Federalized British Empire]

Very appropriate First Words. I hope Sigi is prepared for an obscene amount of publicity far in excess of that she garnered for being the first woman in space. I even suspect that some annoying paparazzi-type will unearth her connection to the Imperial Family and blab to the world. Hell, her own mother, if still alive, might do it herself in a bout of pure spite.
I'd say it's inevitable.

Dead!Wilhelm III will probably be proud too...?
Parker wanted some privacy to 'moon' over Sigi without getting ribbed over it, because I think he knows that his people would put 2 + 2 together to equal "The Boss has a GERMAN girlfriend!" pretty quickly.
Richie might already know. Parker did show up when Kaiser Lou and he were havjng breakfast, after all.
Yes! Parker has been hit hard by Cupid's Arrow. "Sigi is glorious" indeed. Probably said with an overly besotted puppy dog look of adoration on his face as he said it too. We may have another Trans-Atlantic rom,ance on our hands. I'd say his mother will now put some plans to find him a suitable partner to rest and dust of the ones in the maternal memory file labelled "Weddings; Plans for, Eldest Son".
Seriously, "Sigi is glorious." He's not even trying, is he?

Mrs. Parker must be over the Moon with her son's taste in women.

Also, imagine the reaction of all of the other women Mrs. Parker's been in contact with, now that they know their opposition is (quite literally) out of this world.

Marc A
 
Ah, but all those rooting for Parker and Siggi, she has mayor flaws that will ring warning bells all around Mrs. Parker...
Like Siggi works for a living... *shudder* and worse she is in the *gasp* military and in a fighting position to boot...
Like Siggi comes from Nobility... nuff said for a stuffy american upper crust familiy...
And worst Siggi is NOT american but german... and we can be sure that a third cousin or some such died in France fighting them...

So in the end, I think his poor Mom will have a break down on where she did wrong with her poor darling son...
Oh, and not to forget she will multiply her efforts to set him up with an respectable young lady of good american breeding and comportement.

Maybe a bit over the top from me, but I doubt it :biggrin:
 
[Quietly exits the room with plans of my TL which includes a Federalized British Empire]
I'd say it's inevitable.
Dead!Wilhelm III will probably be proud too...?
Richie might already know. Parker did show up when Kaiser Lou and he were havjng breakfast, after all.
Seriously, "Sigi is glorious." He's not even trying, is he?
Mrs. Parker must be over the Moon with her son's taste in women.
Also, imagine the reaction of all of the other women Mrs. Parker's been in contact with, now that they know their opposition is (quite literally) out of this world.
Marc A

I'd say the appropriate phrase is "chewing on their own livers".

Ah, but all those rooting for Parker and Siggi, she has mayor flaws that will ring warning bells all around Mrs. Parker...
Like Siggi works for a living... *shudder* and worse she is in the *gasp* military and in a fighting position to boot...
Like Siggi comes from Nobility... nuff said for a stuffy american upper crust familiy...
And worst Siggi is NOT american but german... and we can be sure that a third cousin or some such died in France fighting them...
So in the end, I think his poor Mom will have a break down on where she did wrong with her poor darling son...
Oh, and not to forget she will multiply her efforts to set him up with an respectable young lady of good american breeding and comportement.
Maybe a bit over the top from me, but I doubt it :biggrin:

I'm hoping that we don't have Margot 4.0, after all we've had Margot, Tilo's Mum & Ben's Mum. We've only really had one disapproving father; Nancy's Dad. So I'm holding out for a disapproving Parker's Dad... and Parker's CIA bosses... and Parker & Sigi's military bosses,... not to mention Sigi's already disapproving niece. Although the last one is entirely Parker's fault because he's an idiot. Parker's Mum, on the other hand, seems relieved that he finally seems to have found someone that he doesn't think is a complete & total waste of space.

The real question though is this; does Sigi actually have any feelings for Parker, or does she only consider him to be that one night stand she had because she didn't think that she would ever see him again?
 
Top