Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread III

Honestly I wouldn't see them using G44s, even if heavily modified, for sniper duty like you have them there; the 6.5x38mm cartridge just isn't long ranged and especially isn't accurate enough. (It's better than OTL assault rifle cartridges, but still...)

Probably more like a semi-automatic DMR (could be a variant of the G44 like the HK417 for the HK416? Would make sense to have one...) in 7.92mm Mauser would be my guess if they don't want to use the 8.5mm bolt action sniper rifles... (The German military should probably still have something between 6.5mm and 8.5mm; the former is too short ranged and the latter is too heavy and has too much recoil for normal marksman rifle/GPMG use)

For close range duty there'd probably be more SMGs like the MP5 over assault rifles, which have too much penetration which can cause civilian casualties and are heavier and bulkier with more recoil and muzzle flash. (Which is why police agencies and domestic security forces and the like are still using SMGs while the militaries are changing to carbine variants of assault rifles for rear-line forces, especially...)

And since they're operating domestically they would use hollow-point cartridges for their SMGs for the stopping power instead of ball cartridges that the standard military uses, which is very useful for protection of high value targets and is more effective in pistol rounds than intermediate cartridges like 6.5x38mm.
 
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Honestly I wouldn't see them using G44s, even if heavily modified, for sniper duty like you have them there; the 6.5x38mm cartridge just isn't long ranged and accurate enough. (It's better than OTL assault rifle cartridges, but still...)

Probably more like a semi-automatic DMR (see the HK 417 OTL) in 7.92mm Mauser would be my guess if they don't want to use the 8.5mm bolt action sniper rifles...
Basically it is a DMR, and it is chambered for 6.5mm for the same reason that Police Snipers use 5.56mm in OTL. In a major urban center they would seldom have the need to fire past a couple hundred meters so a mag cartridge would be overkill. There is also the likely possibility of a hostile using a crowd for cover, overpenetration would be a huge problem in that scenario.
 
Part 114, Chapter 1887
Chapter One Thousand Eight Hundred Eighty-Seven



27th October 1968

Mitte, Berlin

When Louis Ferdinand considered who he was, he couldn’t help but think about what a younger version of himself might have had to say. He had been dubbed the “Rebel Prince” during his days in America. Hobnobbing with Movie Stars in Hollywood, working briefly on the auto assembly lines at the Ford Motor Company, having drinks with the captains of industry and politicians. All of that had later proven to be a fairly good education for when he had unexpectedly become Crown Prince and later the Emperor of Germany. Tonight thought, he figured that his younger self would be bored to tears with the prospect of playing cards with his daughters. Especially because Antonia and Annett were still learning how to play. Louis didn’t especially mind because he knew that he would probably find the younger version of himself to be something of an insufferable twit.

All of his girls had different things going on with them. Kristina wasn’t thrilled at the prospect of marriage, now, next summer or ever. She thought that it was completely unfair that Louis had conspired with Benjamin to get her to agree. She said that them doing that while she had been going through a cancer scare to be dirty pool on their part, Louis had no idea how else they might have gotten her to finally agree to even consider the matter. It wasn’t as if Kristina didn’t love the boy. Louis figured that was that somewhere along the way she had picked up some problematic notions about marriage being the end of her aspirations. Regretfully, Louis knew Kira had inadvertently done that. He wished his late wife had accepted Kristina for who she was as opposed to who she had wanted her to be. Presently, Kristina was looking at her hand with a frown on her face. She never could hide it when she had been dealt a bad hand but refused to just give up.

Marie Cecilie was still pursuing her various crusades. Animal rights, human rights, the environment, social justice, and God only knew what else. She had gotten through University with a Diplom in Philosophy, which immediately reminded Louis of the old joke about the last assignment for Philosophy Majors being a detailed thesis about exactly what they intended to do with a degree in Philosophy. For Marie, Louis refused to call her by her childhood nickname for the same reason he never referred to Kristina as Kiki, she had discovered the answer in the form several Non-Governmental Organizations that happened to share her interests. She was always happy to help out where she could, mostly in the form of using her quasi-celebrity status to bring exposure and help raise money for the cause. What Louis hoped Marie never learned of was one of the offers that the delegation from Galicia and Ruthenia had made, to declare themselves a Principality with Marie Cecilie as the Sovereign. That region had the potential to become rather rich in the coming years and exactly what Marie might do with those resources at her disposal was a frightening thought. Tonight, she was sitting there with her head laying on the table, indifferent to the game. The weird part was that Marie was winning more hands than anyone else.

Victoria was visiting from Bavaria and had gone out of her way to tell Louis that all was well so far with her pregnancy. She was nearly seven months along and it felt that she was telling herself that as much as him. Her due date was in late December or early January and Vicky was fretting over lost time in her pursuit of a Doctorate in Psychology. Louis had suggested months earlier that she ought to be taking notes about her current mental state, what she was going through would probably be of great interest to the discipline one day. That suggestion had not been well received. There was also the reality of her marriage to Prince Franz of Bavaria and that she was carrying a potential heir to the Bavarian throne to consider. The Kingdom in southern Germany remained conservative and tradition bound even as it seemed like the rest of the Empire was progressing forward in fits and starts. It was a stronghold of the center-right National Liberals and sole remaining bastion of the far-right Center Party. This was unlike the rest of the Empire where the far-right opposition was splintered between various factions of Royalists, Nationalists, and what could only be described as religious fundamentalists who were considered kooks by everyone else. In Bavaria those two Parties had formed a block that had kept everyone else out of power for decades. How Victoria fit in was an example of one of the earliest lessons Louis had learned in politics, people see what they want to see. And in Bavaria people wanted to see a young couple who were expecting their first child, just who they preferred to spend their personal time with never came up. Tonight, Victoria was feeling pensive and wasn’t interested in the game, generally folding as soon as the cards were dealt. Louis couldn’t help but notice how often her hand frequently strayed to her rapidly expanding midsection. Regardless of the truth about her life, Victoria’s child was very much wanted and would be joyfully welcomed into the world.

“That isn’t how you play the game” Kristina said to Antonia and Annett who had been comparing hands and quietly debating strategy. Annett blew a raspberry at their older sister, which Antonia found hilarious. It was nice to see Annett happy, she had come a long way from the scared little girl who he and Charlotte had taken in a couple years earlier. When Annett had arrived home after spending the summer at Hohenzollern Castle, they had surprised her with the news that her adoption by Louis and Charlotte had finally gone through. Taking Annett in had originally been Charlotte’s idea. She had learned about how the childhoods of Louis’ older children had been lonely at times and had realized that because Antonia had been something of a surprise for both of them, she was not going to have any younger siblings. Then Katherine had told them about this brave, resilient little girl she was trying to figure out what to do with. Charlotte had decided Annett would be the perfect sister for Antonia, she saw the early difficulties as a bonus. It won’t hurt Antonia to learn that the world is not always a kind place, was how Charlotte had termed it.

Louis had long understood that his children would need to earn their place in the world. The three oldest girls were doing that to differing extents, mostly because there wasn’t just one way to go about doing it. Oddly, of his boys it was Friedrich he was currently the most concerned with. He remembered that during early days of the Soviet War, Augustus Lang had made a big show of national unity and how the Emperor was a unifying figure. He had not been able to keep the mask on entirely though. Louis had known that Lang had never really abandoned his beliefs as a revolutionary firebrand and that his faction within the Social Democratic Party had called for elimination of the Monarchy, strict separation of Church and State, and heavy regulation of capital. That was a bit of a contradiction from the pragmatic persona that Lang had maintained as the Chancellor. Exactly who had claim to Lang’s legacy remained a fierce debate, the pragmatists, or the revolutionaries. Though many people thought that Louis must be mad for doing so, it was the reason why he had brought back the Imperial Election with the appointed Electors. Friedrich would need to win over them and the wider public if he were going to succeed Louis upon his retirement. While that might seem to be a low bar to get over, creating that sort of consensus would be a challenge at a time when getting it would be like herding cats.
 
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For Galicia and Ruthenia Albrecht I of Bavaria has a son that is not doing anything right now especially if the child of Franz and Victoria is a masculine child.

Kiki is determined to play the martyr even though she really wants to marry Ben it just that she wants to feel the choice has been taken away from her.
 
For Galicia and Ruthenia Albrecht I of Bavaria has a son that is not doing anything right now especially if the child of Franz and Victoria is a masculine child.

Kiki is determined to play the martyr even though she really wants to marry Ben it just that she wants to feel the choice has been taken away from her.
Considering the extents Albrecht of Bavaria has gone to ensure that his spare doesn't get on the throne of Bavaria, I don't think Galicia & Ruthenia would enjoy that experience.
 
Kristina is sort of right. Even in OTL Germany a husband at that time

had 100% authority about the place to live, how the children were educated
he could quit the job of his wife against her will
he was determining what to spend the money on
he could even rape his wife.

Maybe ITTL the SPD has managed to change a couple of those things but without the Grundgesetz of 1949 OTL with its plain statement „men and women are equal“ it would be hard.

Oh and btw the rape part made it into this century and making it illegal was against the massive intervention of CDU and CSU and the catholic church.
 
The SPD may find that a little easier this time if such a sentiment has the new Kaiser's backing. While the mysoginistic forces of conservatism may object, if it has royal approval, their objections are likely to become more muted.

It sounds like the sort of thing Marie would badger Freddie into supporting, because on the surface it sounds quite innocuous. And it would be until Freddie publically supports it.
 
In the first timeline right around the time between the victory over the Soviet Union and the end of the war against Japan a series of laws was passed protecting and expanding the rights of women in the workplace and home, also after Kat was forced to resign from the BII for becoming pregnant with the twins more laws were passed prohibiting discrimination against women for being pregnant.
So for Kiki using the excuse that being married would limit her career is not a legitimate reason.
 
In the first timeline right around the time between the victory over the Soviet Union and the end of the war against Japan a series of laws was passed protecting and expanding the rights of women in the workplace and home, also after Kat was forced to resign from the BII for becoming pregnant with the twins more laws were passed prohibiting discrimination against women for being pregnant.
So for Kiki using the excuse that being married would limit her career is not a legitimate reason.
ejpsan you do not know how deeply the discrimination against women goes until today
To be fair, he's talking about de jure rather than de facto. While probably the attitudes ITTL's Germany are somewhat similar to OTL's (though the role women played in TTL's Soviet War, etc. probably changed that to a degree), on paper at least the laws seem to have changed.

Also...IIRC, wasn't a lot of the more limiting stuff re women in post-war Germany a reaction to how in the dying days of the war the Nazis had forced young women into service as Flakhilferinnen? Not such an issue here...
 
ejpsan you do not know how deeply the discrimination against women goes until today
That is an unfair charge I do know that there is still a massive discrimination problem against women today but it is mostly cultural instead of legal but it still impacts on the legal side.
But in this timeline a lot of the legal discrimination against women in Germany was outlawed because of the need for women in the workplace during and after the war, but there is still a cultural reluctance against women but in this timeline Germany is much farther ahead then it was IOTL.
 
While probably the attitudes ITTL's Germany are somewhat similar to OTL's
Because circumstances are just so different compared to OTL that this is actually rather unlikely, otl was as much a reaction to Weimar and that nazis that a compression to itl really doesn't make much sense.
 
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Ejpsan sorry for the personal offense. But both in WW1 and WW2 women were needed on the workforce in all countries and it did not change a jota of the legal and social discrimination. So why should have done ITTL with no UNO, no universal declaration of human rights no Grundgesetz?
 
Ejpsan sorry for the personal offense. But both in WW1 and WW2 women were needed on the workforce in all countries and it did not change a jota of the legal and social discrimination. So why should have done ITTL with no UNO, no universal declaration of human rights no Grundgesetz?
embo’s point:


Because circumstances are just so different compared to OTL that this is actually rather unlikely, otl was as much a reaction to Weimar and that nazis that a compression to itl really doesn't make much sense.
Plus... I mean, look at all the stuff we’ve seen women do ITTL. That argues for at least a somewhat changed legal situation.
 
Holzfan I am just forwarding the 1914 legislation and stating that with all the need in both wars not only Germany but France, the UK and the USA were more than happy to put women into the place they „belong to“ (hell avoiding actual politics especially in the USA is hard) and fid do legally and socially big time in the 50s and 60s. And so far TTL does not seem that radically different. Au contraire no human rights declaration, no UNO, no Grundgesetz...
 
Holzfan I am just forwarding the 1914 legislation and stating that with all the need in both wars not only Germany but France, the UK and the USA were more than happy to put women into the place they „belong to“ (hell avoiding actual politics especially in the USA is hard) and fid do legally and socially big time in the 50s and 60s. And so far TTL does not seem that radically different. Au contraire no human rights declaration, no UNO, no Grundgesetz...
I do get what you’re saying, I’m just making the point that ITTL we’ve seen women in Germany going a lot further than women anywhere OTL. Heck, we’ve seen them serving in combat. Which does argue for a change in social legislation and attitudes at least within the German Empire.
 
Ejpsan sorry for the personal offense. But both in WW1 and WW2 women were needed on the workforce in all countries and it did not change a jota of the legal and social discrimination. So why should have done ITTL with no UNO, no universal declaration of human rights no Grundgesetz?
I am afraid you are subscribing to a too linear view of history. Women's rights in the early Bundesrepublik were SIGNIFICANTLY behind the situation under Weimar. The reasons were multiple, from conservative (particularly catholic) church affiliated politicians much more involved in drafting the new legislation than 1918, via the legacy of Nazis delegitimizing women's suffrage, to a thought often expressed at the time that a major part of post-WW1 social dislocations were due to demobilised soldiers not finding a place in the society due to women having taken their place, and a desire to avoid the repeat of this situation (again, look at it from the viewpoint of a society yearning for a return to an orderly quiet life, not from current understanding of the individual rights). The Weimar laws were a revolutionary movement written with a progressive agenda in mind. The laws of 1949 were written by those least tainted by affiliation with Nazis - and a large part of those were, in the words of an older acquaintance, "too black to become brown" (think of political parties colours, not skin). At that point most socially progressive politicians were murdered or mentally broken by Nazis, or in exile and with very little political power even if they returned before 1949. Anything "socialist" were too tainted by association with the Soviets, too.
The early post-WW2 legislation was in part written to UNDO parts of the developments associated with the end of the Kaiserreich. Obviously the genie was never going to allow itself to be put back into the bottle but not for the lack of trying.
P.S. None of the factors skewing the early Bundesrepublik legislation towards the socially conservative angle are present ITTL. Even the Soviet Union was not an enemy for ideological reasons but because they were an aggressive totalitarian state and because they tried to murder the Kaiserin and her children.
 
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