Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II
- Thread starter Peabody-Martini
- Start date
Paternas
Donor
Looks like something fishy is going on here. Pirates avoid navies, because fighting armed and trained enemies will get them killed and more importantly, nets them no profit.
Wait, what. I love this timeline, but it's a pretty strong Ameriscrew. Not quite as bad as OTL is a Russoscrew (with the trajectory it was on, Russia could have been a hyperpower and was really only #1 (if that) for a few years after WWII while the US went home and demilitarized and maybe at some really dark points in the 1970s when they were at the zenith of their foreign influence).
- Atomic weapons screw
- Foreign policy screw multiple times over with Garner, Dewey, somewhat better Truman, Harriman
- Civil Rights screw
- Major technology screw
- WWI levels of German espionage and sabotage carried into the 1960s, including 2 FBI directors who are spies.
ferdi254
Banned
As I said before:
1. Despite all the emmigrants not going to the USA (Fermi, Einstein etc) the USA did get an atomic bomb OTL years. A massive USA wank.
2. The USA has a B36 with a 33% enlarged range compated to OTL despite no need to develop sth ITTL
3. Without paperclip (and without the thievery of the trademarks of WWI) the USA is still able to compete in the space race.
4. So far the amount of interacial tensions is seriously below OTL.
Any comments?
1. Despite all the emmigrants not going to the USA (Fermi, Einstein etc) the USA did get an atomic bomb OTL years. A massive USA wank.
2. The USA has a B36 with a 33% enlarged range compated to OTL despite no need to develop sth ITTL
3. Without paperclip (and without the thievery of the trademarks of WWI) the USA is still able to compete in the space race.
4. So far the amount of interacial tensions is seriously below OTL.
Any comments?
Paternas
Donor
That depends on how you view the OTL success. The US lucked out in terms of becoming a superpower in WW2 and having the dollar be the global reserve currency. With a German victory in WW1 that would be rather unrealistic to happen.
ITTL they just kept to their side of the Atlantic. They did not gain their OTL global influence, but avoided WW2, the Vietnam war and a costly Cold War. The global economy is also much larger and in better shape than OTL. I doubt that the average American is really worse of than OTL.
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Monitor
Donor
Well, that should be true. Also, computers are a bit more advanced, which Right now should not be that important, but very soon will be... Of course, we actually do not know that much about the USA domestically, they could be screwing things up...
This has been thoroughly discussed several times in the past and it is more that OTL has been a massive Ameriwank. There was, due to Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini and the ensuing Holocaust and global conflict a massive transfer of intellectuals, scientists, academics, intelligence officers and engineers to America. A (limited) wave of White Russians after the Bolsheviks victory, a large influx of Jewish or socialist or generally anti-Nazi people during the 1930s from Western Europe (Einstein, Fermi, Szilard, von Neumann, Kissinger for examples) a large influx of German engineers, scientists and intelligence officers under Paperclip in the 1940s (for example Dornbager, von Braun, Strughold) and a bunch of Eastern European anti communists (like the Ulam brothers, Brzezinski, Algis Budrys) also in the 1940s. Other than a few White Russian ballerinas and musicians between 1919 and 1923, none of that happened in TTL America, nor did they get two treasure troves of German intellectual property as happened OTL. They are doing reasonably well but not super brilliantly, pretty much what you might expect when Europe hasn't committed economic and cultural suicide as OTL.
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Well, that should be true. Also, computers are a bit more advanced, which Right now should not be that important, but very soon will be... Of course, we actually do not know that much about the USA domestically, they could be screwing things up...
No news is probably good news. Also remember that at the end of the day this is a story and it is more interesting to read about civil servant John Smith screwing the pooch spectacularly than it is to read about middle manger John Smith and his comfortable, prosperous life in the suburbs with his wife and 2.4 kids.
Nelson Rockefeller is the current President ITTL.
George HW Bush ITTL is an interesting case of how much the butterflies ITTL has changed someone's life.
First off his father Prescott Bush is disgraced when he outed as one the backers of the Spanish Civil War along with Joseph P Kennedy Sr.
Next he becomes a Naval Officer stationed in Guam and is humiliated by a couple of German Marine Infantry NCOs in "The Great Guam Beer Hiest" and leaves the Navy shortly thereafter.
While he is not part of The Augusta Conspiracy, he does knows who the players were and he left the United States before a Material Witness warrant could be served.
He was also involved with running guns to the Boers in South Africa and to the Mexican Rebels.
Part 106, Chapter 1731
Chapter One Thousand Seven Hundred Thirty-One
5th July 1966
In transit, Over the Pacific Ocean
The lights had been dimmed for most of the cabin. Up front however, Rea’s father and older brother, Friedrich were discussing the Eastern Pacific Conference that was to take place over the Holiday. While doubtlessly important, it seemed like a way to ruin a perfectly good vacation to Rea. Suga was asleep in the seat in front of Rea with Mirai in her arms and Charlotte was reading a book under the light over her seat that she had turned on.
The problem with traveling to such a far-flung location was that even with jetliners it took an entire day of more just to get there. Rea had never been able to sleep on airplanes and envied how easily her sisters were doing exactly that. Kiki was wrapped in a blanket and was leaning against the side of the cabin. Her glasses having fallen off her nose hours before, were laying on the floor under the row of seats that Kiki was sitting in. When she woke up, trying to find them would probably vex Kiki to no end.
Nella and Nan were snuggled together in the seats in front of Charlotte. Rea was still trying to get a handle on the little girl who her family had taken in. Charlotte said that Nan had a difficult start in life, and they had all been encouraged to treat her like if she were one of them. Nella and Kiki had readily done that, Rea had been a bit more reluctant. There were moments where Nan reacted strangely or became fearful due to random things that raised a lot of questions for her. Today, or was it yesterday now, Nan had said that she had never been on an airplane before as they were boarding and was looking at the prospect of being so high up with a great deal of trepidation. What if the plane crashed? Rea had told her the Engineers at Focke-Wulf had built the airplane for Lufthansa to be poetry rendered in aluminum. Poetry was magic and what was more magical than flying? It was their magic and how could something like that crash? Later, as Nan had looked in wonder out the window, Charlotte had whispered to Rea that what she had said to Nan was perfect.
Vicky had refused to come along for this Holiday, though an invitation had been extended to her. It had been Rea’s fondest hope that they could reach some sort reconciliation over the Holiday. Their strained relationship was something that Rea had decided needed to be repaired because it felt like if a piece of herself was missing. Japik had joked that it was Rea’s inherent narcissism talking when she had told him about it, but for her the matter felt far deeper than that. Instead, Vicky had decided that she wanted to learn to make pottery over the summer. That had struck Rea as being extremely odd until Kiki had told her in confidence that she thought that Vicky’s sudden interest in ceramics might have something to do with a certain willowy, blond pottery instructor who Vicky wanted to get to know better. Rea smiled at the thought, Vicky deserved to be happy as much as anyone else.
8th July 1966
Trieste, Austria
Louis had dipped into his own savings to give each of the men under his command enough money to have a Friday night out in Trieste. It came out to a few thousand Marks that he wasn’t thrilled to be parting with. Borchardt said that between that and giving them twenty-four hours liberty, they ought to come back tomorrow broke but happy with their Captain. Louis considered it fortunate that the Windhund’s crew was small and unlike what the Moondogs had to say, sometimes money could buy you love.
So, it was just Louis and Borchardt aboard when the car and the lorries pulled up on the pier. A Platoon of Marine Infantry poured out of the lorries and two men exited the car. Louis recognized as the first as Kapitän-zur-See Ingo Laninga the Head of MND Office, Naval Intelligence Service, here in Trieste. The second was a bit of a surprise though. Juan Pujol-Garcia, the Spanish born Shipping Magnate operated out of Berlin and was one of the richest men in the world. They were joined by a Marine Lieutenant who Louis knew from the SMS Brandenburg, Udi Brog.
“Welcome aboard the Windhund” Louis said as the three men walked down the gangplank for lack of anything better to say.
“I’ve never been aboard one of these new gunboats before” Pujol said as Laninga gave him an annoyed look. “Where’s the crew?”
“I gave them the night off” Louis replied as he led the men down to the wardroom. Five men was an incredibly tight fit around the table.
“Can he be trusted to keep his mouth shut?” Laninga asked referring to Borchardt who bristled.
“Deckoffizier Borchardt is my Executive Officer and I would trust him with my life” Louis replied. He had only known André Borchardt since October, but Louis’ father had once told him that there were moments when showing a bit of loyalty would cement it in return forever.
“Never well” Laninga said before pulling a folder out of his briefcase and opening it. “You already know about the SS O’Brian. What you don’t know is that there is a larger game afoot involving you, the Americans, us and this man who everyone seems to be after.”
Louis looked at the grainy photograph. Who was that?
“What does any of this have to do with anything?” Louis asked.
“The Turks are gearing up for another round with the Greeks and we think that we’ve already seen the first moves” Pujol said, “Attacks on merchant shipping among other things, word is that the Italians stumbled across it with some of their Croatian friends along for the ride. It ended badly for them.”
5th July 1966
In transit, Over the Pacific Ocean
The lights had been dimmed for most of the cabin. Up front however, Rea’s father and older brother, Friedrich were discussing the Eastern Pacific Conference that was to take place over the Holiday. While doubtlessly important, it seemed like a way to ruin a perfectly good vacation to Rea. Suga was asleep in the seat in front of Rea with Mirai in her arms and Charlotte was reading a book under the light over her seat that she had turned on.
The problem with traveling to such a far-flung location was that even with jetliners it took an entire day of more just to get there. Rea had never been able to sleep on airplanes and envied how easily her sisters were doing exactly that. Kiki was wrapped in a blanket and was leaning against the side of the cabin. Her glasses having fallen off her nose hours before, were laying on the floor under the row of seats that Kiki was sitting in. When she woke up, trying to find them would probably vex Kiki to no end.
Nella and Nan were snuggled together in the seats in front of Charlotte. Rea was still trying to get a handle on the little girl who her family had taken in. Charlotte said that Nan had a difficult start in life, and they had all been encouraged to treat her like if she were one of them. Nella and Kiki had readily done that, Rea had been a bit more reluctant. There were moments where Nan reacted strangely or became fearful due to random things that raised a lot of questions for her. Today, or was it yesterday now, Nan had said that she had never been on an airplane before as they were boarding and was looking at the prospect of being so high up with a great deal of trepidation. What if the plane crashed? Rea had told her the Engineers at Focke-Wulf had built the airplane for Lufthansa to be poetry rendered in aluminum. Poetry was magic and what was more magical than flying? It was their magic and how could something like that crash? Later, as Nan had looked in wonder out the window, Charlotte had whispered to Rea that what she had said to Nan was perfect.
Vicky had refused to come along for this Holiday, though an invitation had been extended to her. It had been Rea’s fondest hope that they could reach some sort reconciliation over the Holiday. Their strained relationship was something that Rea had decided needed to be repaired because it felt like if a piece of herself was missing. Japik had joked that it was Rea’s inherent narcissism talking when she had told him about it, but for her the matter felt far deeper than that. Instead, Vicky had decided that she wanted to learn to make pottery over the summer. That had struck Rea as being extremely odd until Kiki had told her in confidence that she thought that Vicky’s sudden interest in ceramics might have something to do with a certain willowy, blond pottery instructor who Vicky wanted to get to know better. Rea smiled at the thought, Vicky deserved to be happy as much as anyone else.
8th July 1966
Trieste, Austria
Louis had dipped into his own savings to give each of the men under his command enough money to have a Friday night out in Trieste. It came out to a few thousand Marks that he wasn’t thrilled to be parting with. Borchardt said that between that and giving them twenty-four hours liberty, they ought to come back tomorrow broke but happy with their Captain. Louis considered it fortunate that the Windhund’s crew was small and unlike what the Moondogs had to say, sometimes money could buy you love.
So, it was just Louis and Borchardt aboard when the car and the lorries pulled up on the pier. A Platoon of Marine Infantry poured out of the lorries and two men exited the car. Louis recognized as the first as Kapitän-zur-See Ingo Laninga the Head of MND Office, Naval Intelligence Service, here in Trieste. The second was a bit of a surprise though. Juan Pujol-Garcia, the Spanish born Shipping Magnate operated out of Berlin and was one of the richest men in the world. They were joined by a Marine Lieutenant who Louis knew from the SMS Brandenburg, Udi Brog.
“Welcome aboard the Windhund” Louis said as the three men walked down the gangplank for lack of anything better to say.
“I’ve never been aboard one of these new gunboats before” Pujol said as Laninga gave him an annoyed look. “Where’s the crew?”
“I gave them the night off” Louis replied as he led the men down to the wardroom. Five men was an incredibly tight fit around the table.
“Can he be trusted to keep his mouth shut?” Laninga asked referring to Borchardt who bristled.
“Deckoffizier Borchardt is my Executive Officer and I would trust him with my life” Louis replied. He had only known André Borchardt since October, but Louis’ father had once told him that there were moments when showing a bit of loyalty would cement it in return forever.
“Never well” Laninga said before pulling a folder out of his briefcase and opening it. “You already know about the SS O’Brian. What you don’t know is that there is a larger game afoot involving you, the Americans, us and this man who everyone seems to be after.”
Louis looked at the grainy photograph. Who was that?
“What does any of this have to do with anything?” Louis asked.
“The Turks are gearing up for another round with the Greeks and we think that we’ve already seen the first moves” Pujol said, “Attacks on merchant shipping among other things, word is that the Italians stumbled across it with some of their Croatian friends along for the ride. It ended badly for them.”
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Also Barbara left him and took Bush Jr. with her after lil' Jeb died of some illness.
So the ONI/CIA's going after Bush Sr. and also taking an interest with Lou Jr.?
Marc A
This is NOT a smart idea. The Kaiser, the Crown Prince and the 2nd-in-line to the throne on the same aircraft at the same time? Along with the 4th, 7th & 8th-in-line? Aboard the Imperial Yacht, maybe, but not so smart with aircraft. Too fragile a target, especially with SAMs being a thing. AFAIK, the only times the British Royals travel in the same vehicles are the Royal Train & Yacht.
Cue my sense of "Impending Doom™". We could easily have Michael, Emperor of Germany & King of Bohemia, if the Demon Murphy intercedes.
Hoping that Vicky doesn't get her heart broken. Also that Rea's friend Japik doesn't get caught up in the homophobia being stirred up in Berlin for purely political reasons.
GHB may have finally screwed up, if Juan is on the case. Although if he & the Turks are screwing around with the Albanians in the Adriatic, I'd say that they are probably planning to hang said Albanians out to dry as a scapegoat. Use them to distract from what they are actually doing, well, the Turks at least. GHB will have his own plans. By the way, has he bought himself either a white Persian or a hairless cat yet? Or perhaps, has a volcano lair with laser sharks?
All kidding aside, if GHB is supplying the Turks, then the CIA may be backing him as their unofficial conduit to the Turks. Guns for hashish, perhaps? Then there is the entire North Africa & Palestine situation. GHB playing his games in the Eastern Med could mean supplying the various independence movements within the region. We all know the Brits have had issues with Empire, but what of the French African colonies? Is Algeria seeking to separate from France? Libya from Italy? Does Egypt still accept a British presence or have the Palestinian troubles unsettled that nation as well? And then we have our unfriendly tribesman & his merry band of cutthroat zealots in the Arabian Peninsular.
Weed-whacker time?
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He makes a good deniable asset, although George sr will know he won't be rehabilitated by this.
The best he can hope for is a new passport in a new name that the US gvt will let him visit, (but reside at), home without busting him at the border. He's had a good run so far, quite a long career is this game.
If Schultz were still alive, then it could be a case of Juan being there to make George an offer he can't refuse, and the new chapter in the life of Georg Strauch begins.
Monitor
Donor
The thing is, from a safety of transportation perspective, it is not that bad (aircraft are one of the safest forms of transportation, regarding definition, the safest). From an assasination standpoint? Well, the weapons are more difficult to get but easier to position correctly, so against state actors a bad idea...
From the view point of securing the survival of the dynastic succession, it's not a good idea, and it's not too big a deal for Louis Sr. & Freddie to travel on different aircraft.
I mean metal fatigue or structural weakness hitting, killing everyone on board and Louis Junior becoming Kaiser in the middle of a firefight with two American intelligence branches, Albanian pirates, the Turks and Abyssinia (why not throw them in too somehow) wouldn't be out of place in this story.
Monitor
Donor
Yeah, from that standpoint all of them being even in the same city is not a good idea (freak accidents with nuclear weapons do happen, luckily rarely to never catastrophically)...