Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II

I find myself a little confused (a not uncommon occurrence). Nancy has panicked it seems not wanting to give up Johann Schultz. While the US and other intelligence service don’t know who the BND’s head of Operations is does it really matter if he was exposed? It hardly seems that the Alte Schultz would still be a field agent at this stage of his career. I guessI need to read more Le Carre.

I think it’s less about Schultz than in not disclosing Kat or Jehane’s weaknesses.
 
I think it’s less about Schultz than in not disclosing Kat or Jehane’s weaknesses.

Fair point. But it is well known she is in contact with them regularly so I’m sure she has been asked questions repeatedly and at length about both of them. I imagine even coached by Kay a bit too on what to expect. Even with the change in focus and sentiment by US intelligence it still doesn’t quite fit. All something in Nancy’s head?
 
This was always going to be a "no win scenario" for Nancy. No Finley "may" get a reprimand but he won't be rewarded for this, (yes in fact that was EXACTLY not how it was done considering he was well aware of her background) while he didn't 'help' the investigation neither can he be 'blamed' for his action as he can readily point to his 'concerns' being on record. If anyone TRIES to make him a scapegoat he will fall back on 'trial-by-media' and let everyone and anyone know HE fired a "German Spy" and not "the-powers-that-be" are trying to cover it up. Nobody in Truman's administration will survive that fallout

And all of our little 'revenge-fantasies' for him are actually worse... (I will be highly surprised that 'someone' won't notice Nancy's arrival and decide to 'stir' things up. After all, the more the US tears it's intel and government up searching for "German Spies" the better. It worked OTL with the "Red Scares" after all. All it will take is the IG investigation to come across a cyptic 'message' to Finley saying something like "Package delivered" and a "deposit" of some funds into one of his accounts and the rest will take care of itself. At which point Nancy becomes the 'face' of German Espionage and her and her family reviled for it like OTL's Hiss.) Oh and no she can NOT in fact be granted political "asylum" she can be granted "asylum" but that would be a very public and up-front confirmation she was in fact a German spy. Nancy was not "innocent" here. Naive to the extreme, yes but she actually WAS "betraying her country" and she has to live with that knowledge. Not making a 'decision' is still making a decision and she is aware of that fact which is why this is tearing her up. It will greatly depend on how much and what kind of support she gets but the greatest likelihood at this point is her love of Tilo and how much she cares for Kat will turn to unconscious hate of equal intensity. If she becomes a 'public' figure in this or someone (Finley) casts here as such it will be worlds worse. (She actually DOES have an alcohol problem not that anyone will recognize it as such atm but give her time to think and develop the self-hate by projecting this all on herself which is where she's going and it will be her end) In general anyone who's been 'positive' or has made German-friendly comments is going to be moved aside and marginalized while the US gears up to 'oppose' the "hun". And with the lesson of the Great War being America can't afford to let the 'world' go its own way because it is now a VERY small and frightening world this has ensure that America will never again be the 'sleeping' giant.

As for America as a whole, yet in fact Truman has found a VERY good external enemy for the US. The Admiral is actually playing into this and I'm not surprised as he's let his personal issues override his concern for national issues. The fact Germany has a huge submarine that can go anywhere in the world and launch nuclear weapons is going to have the US public going nuts, and should Von Braun manage a satellite launch... Either would be a "Sputnik" panic level event, together... America is going to be "awake" now and united and there is little Germany can do about it. Racial problems? Unrest? Social and economic concerns? Gone, well not really but American's can and will set such aside for dealing with later when given an external "threat" to deal with and Germany (with some help from England who you must realize is doing this on purpose) has handed themselves as very clear opponent on a silver platter. About the only way this can 'go wrong' for America is if a very opportunistic demagogue got into power with overt and clear support of the majority of citizens and power groups. This is VERY unlikely to happen in America though.

Germany could of course propose to have all nuclear weapons turned over to the LoN and such much like the OTL proposal for UN control but it won't happen. In fact it can't if Truman has ANY evidence of German interference in the US nuclear program. No one will agree to it. Probably fortunate for TTL's coming "Cold War" most of the possibly adversaries have already experienced have all fought large scale conflicts, (including the US in Mexico) enough to realize that there is no 'single' method of controlling such conflicts. In other words it's far less likely the US will go hog wild developing asymmetric military forces like they did OTL where one branch of the military, (Air Force) gets the majority of development money along with building nuclear weapons alone.

Oh PM: Technical note, once they 'pinged' they KNEW it was a decoy and unless the German sub is very deep AND very far away they will simply run an active sonar search pattern and eventually pick it up. The 'ping' will tell them the 'target' is far to small to be a submarine and now that they have a record of the decoy sound they won't fall for it again. I'd also point out that if they launched the decoy from anything but an external hard-point (aka 'dropped' it) then there would have been a sound transient they can find in the recording to place an 'origin' point for the decoy. It may take some time but once they 'ping' they will go into a circular search patter and won't be 'proceeding west' still chasing it. Never mind if the Captain doesn't think of it, Carter will as he's trained in ASW procedure.

Randy
 
Yeah, Nancy is going to be in a very ugly situation, but one she’s partially-to-largely responsible for. For her sake, hopefully there’s not a spy swap in her future.

She’s totally going through demons Kat could well recognize, but with the added “bonus” of becoming a traitor by omission. Now however, she’ll very quickly become a traitor by commission out of anger and rage. It was a brilliant move by Malcom to now have a favor Kat owes him.

I could see the Saber rattling of Jacob’s become seen as the bridge too far in the naval diplomacy wars, though a massive US buildup could drive the British into the arms of the Germans rather than the other way around.
 
Think about it, a Senator from Wisconsin. IF he somehow got elected how do think the "Kraut scare" is going over with his constituents?

Actually about the same as it did OTL over WWI/II :) In other words he'd be spending a LOT of time accusing people around Washington and his constituents will be out "American-ing" any and all other "Americans". There may be some changes ("We used to be Von Braun but changed it to Brown during World War 1" :) ) but in general the majority of American's will be looking for "something" they can latch onto that won't have them looking to hard at "other" Americans. It's what we do in times of crisis. Recent arrivals, people who don't 'act' like "Americans" (labor issues, civil rights, etc have all gone by the board at this point there will still be changes but no one is going to dare get to cocky for at least a couple of years if not longer) anyone who's praised or worked with/for Germans will find their career at an end, (Puller and such will find they are not going any higher that they are will be 'encouraged' to spend their time left getting the US military up to speed and they will do so, willingly) and backlash against "German Allies" such as Japanese, Korean, Mexican's etc will take the place of going after Negro's and Communists. Official policy will be to drastically enforce the Monroe Doctrine and have a military capable of backing that up. This will be especially prevalent since the US will realize it's 'surrounded' by German influence and nothing short of superiority will be possible.

If Nancy is exposed then you can look to her Mom and what family she still has in the states being ostracized and eventually run out on a rail. (Again Nancy is going to blame herself for this and there will be NO 'simple' answer for it) Note that this environment is where someone like McCarthy actually thrives and both he and his constituents will be actively seeking a scapegoat. Again, ANYONE threatens Finley and he'd go straight to someone like "Tail-Gunner Joe" and scream bloody murder and it would WORK which Truman-et-al know. (No I don't think McCarthy himself would be it he wasn't that good of a politician and his rather questionable "war record" was what actually got him over the hump. He's got nothing in TTL and frankly in getting elected this 'issue' does him very little good. Unless of course he can use someone like "Nancy" as a casus belli issue of course)

Randy
 
You know one of the funniest things that could occur due to this upheaval. The Rise of the Mormon Inquisition.
Or to put it in less dramatic terms, large scale hiring of Mormons for counterintelligence work in the US.

Any group that is trustworthy & loyal will be heavily recruited. And compared to the liberal & secular German Empire, Mormons being Strictly Religious & very conservative will be seen as a perfect foil to the Germans. And while I won’t say Mormons are incorruptable, they would be one of the hardest, if not the hardest groups to compromise someone from.
 
You know one of the funniest things that could occur due to this upheaval. The Rise of the Mormon Inquisition.
Or to put it in less dramatic terms, large scale hiring of Mormons for counterintelligence work in the US.

Any group that is trustworthy & loyal will be heavily recruited. And compared to the liberal & secular German Empire, Mormons being Strictly Religious & very conservative will be seen as a perfect foil to the Germans. And while I won’t say Mormons are incorruptable, they would be one of the hardest, if not the hardest groups to compromise someone from.

That’s a fascinating angle, where you can take a group that has no question been a disliked minority yet that had been unabashedly American and turn them into quasi-Jannissaries in this American context.
 
Part 69, Chapter 996
Chapter Nine Hundred Ninety-Six


19th January 1953

Washington D.C.

One day before the Inauguration and for Truman it was one headache after another. When he had started to suspect that a sabotage program had occurred, he had requested an investigation. The problem was that while the initial investigation had come up empty, things had still swiftly gotten out of hand. The Justice Department had failed to understand that they were to root out the individuals who were responsible, if they could find them, instead they had seemed intent to piss off upwards a quarter to a third of the population. Then there had been the opportunists who had rushed in and started using the situation to settle old scores. Truman had been hearing stories about various Government workers who had fled the capital because they knew that they wouldn’t get a fair shake. Wherever they had gone, most of them were being very quiet, lest they confirm in the public's mind what they were being accused of. There were rumblings in the Upper Midwest where upwards half the population was unhappy with what was going on. To the point where their Representatives in the House and Senatate were starting to speak up. The respective State Governments of Wisconsin and Minnesota had passed resolutions condemning what was being termed the “Kraut Scare” which annoyed Truman because starting it had never been his intention.

Then there were the problems that had existed prior to this mess. Those not only had not gone away but had been compounded by recent events. While Klan was best known for hating blacks, they really hated anyone who didn’t look like the hayseed under the hood. They suddenly remembered that they disliked Jews, Catholics and anyone whose name sounded funny to them.

The League of Nations was holding a hard line on Mexico. Constitution, elections, and economic reform in exactly that order. They were holding up Ukraine as an example of what was possible and to Truman’s disgust the business community continued to be unhappy with that development. Increasingly he was reminded of the sorts of things that the Labor Union activists said about why prevailing wage laws and solidarity were needed. When business could mistreat workers somewhere it tended to undermine workers everywhere. Mexico and the border states had been exactly that sort of place for decades. At the same time Truman knew that his being seen as supporting the LN too much would be unpalatable for much of the American public, so he was having to walk a tightrope.

For Truman, it was funny how being elected to the highest office had shown him exactly what the limits of power really were.


Wolfsburg, Lower Saxony, Germany

Nancy was sitting in the Headquarters of Volkswagen, even here she thought she could smell grease and and hot metal. Though it could just as easily be her mind playing tricks on her. She’d had no idea where she was going to end up, but this had never once crossed her mind.

“You are already badly compromised and to a large degree that is my fault” Kat had said, “I will not be responsible for you digging yourself any deeper into the hole you’re in.”

So, Nancy had been given no choice in the matter. Kat had called in several favors and a job had been found for Nancy where she could use her skillset without crossing any more lines she couldn’t uncross. She just had to meet with her prospective employer first and Kat had made it very clear that if she was going to stay as a guest in her house then Nancy drowning her sorrows was not going to be acceptable.

Kat had also made it clear that for her talking to the BND, BII or anyone from the OKW was forbidden. They knew it and now she knew it too. If Nancy was approached she was to tell them nothing and to go straight to Kat. She was also to wait to reestablish her life before she dared to contact Tilo. According to Kat and her own sources. The US Government was looking for her, not as criminal defendant but as a potential witness regarding the infiltration of the US Government by foreign interests. As far as they knew she was sitting on a beach in California.

Instead, Kat had coached Nancy on the story she was going to tell the world. When Nancy was suspended from her job at State she had still needed to make a living, so it was perfectly plausible that she would take a job with private industry. Volkswagen was good fit for her because they were looking to expand into the North American market.

“Pleased to meet you Fraulein Jensen” Ernst Preis said as Nancy entered his office. “The Gräfin said a lot of good things about you.” Nancy had been told that this man was the head of the Promotions Department.

“Thank you” Nancy replied.

“She also mentioned your recent difficulties and you have my complete sympathy” Preis said.

“About that” Nancy said, “Kat, er, the Gräfin said that you were looking to expand sales in America. How is that possible?”

Preis gave her a sly look, “Eventually, people will remember that commerce is king” He said, “Politics seldom stands for long when there is money to be made. Besides, North America isn’t just the United States. Canada and Mexico are both potential markets.”

“That’s good, I guess” Nancy said, “But what would you need me for?”

“It’s quite simple, we need someone who can understand a market and spot trends” Preis replied, “Much like what you were doing before, but instead of speculating about who is screwing who, you’ll be trying to figure out who wants to buy a car and what features will get them to close the deal.”

That was a bit of crude spin to put on it, but Nancy realized that was exactly what she had been doing in the State Department. On several different levels.
 
....Aand i'm just can envision the irony of Nancy possibly in the next 5-10 years discovering that she its earning more in a single month than she made in a year in the US, as unlike there, her input it its immensely appreciated and understood, added to rising in Volkswagen's ranks.

Finley its going to rage like an idiot, specially as Kat managed to pretty much screw him further, as with Nancy being contracted by Volkswagen, due to being "persecuted" her motivations to leave the US are fireproof specially in hindsight of the backlash of the Kraut Scare, with Truman likely ordering to axe ANY baseless suspension or such, alongside with firing the idiots that used this to settle grudges and bigotry like Finlay

The only thing worse is if someone manages the Supreme Court to judge that the prosecution of the jobs and liberties of American Citizens for their racial ascendance its in fact a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution, Section 1. Truman would start cackling like a madman, because ironically the Kraut Scare would end providing him with the weapon to pin the Ku Klux Klan and the racist idiots, as nobody in typical American fashion would stop to think in that the Supreme Court decision applied to ALL Racial Ascendances, meaning that suddenly most of the tricks employed in the South were illegal after the Supreme Court ruling.....
 
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The only thing worse is if someone manages that the Supreme Court to judge that the prosecution of the jobs and liberties of American Citizens for their racial ascendance its in fact a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution, Section 1. Truman would start cackling like a madman, because ironically the Kraut Scare would end providing him with the weapon to pin the Ku Klux Klan and the racist idiots, as nobody in typical American fashion would stop to think in that the Supreme Court decision applied to ALL Racial Ascendances, meaning that suddenly most of the tricks employed in the South were illegal after the Supreme Court ruling.....

Being a strong personal fan of the Akhil Amar argument for incorporation based on that clause, props.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
My patriotism is kicking in. USA needs to get the bomb and crank out a ludicrous quantity of them, and sell them to every opponent Germany has.

Sabotage us will you? Well now EVERYONE has the same tricks.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
Also Johann Schultz needs to have his neck broken in a fight with an elderly NYC grandmother, because fuck him for sabotaging the US program, his dying will let Nancy be with Tilo without nearly so much risk, and because he's just a jackass in general.
 
My patriotism is kicking in. USA needs to get the bomb and crank out a ludicrous quantity of them, and sell them to every opponent Germany has.
Sabotage us will you? Well now EVERYONE has the same tricks.
Interesting, but very unlikely as even in OTL the USA and USSR did not give out nukes like party favors. And I think here it is even more so as the ideological dimension is totaly missing. Aiding with conventional arms... sure all the better for the USA. But they should do it in a way that is not too obvious. Or else all nations that find themself host to USAmerican weapons will like them much less. And the alliance systems are simply not there to buffer such snubbing by other world powers.
Also remember, that the Empire has a "good" track record in helping others in need.

Also Johann Schultz needs to have his neck broken in a fight with an elderly NYC grandmother, because fuck him for sabotaging the US program, his dying will let Nancy be with Tilo without nearly so much risk, and because he's just a jackass in general.
I can only say, ones Freedom Fighter is the other sides Rebel / Insurgant...
And it not like the USA never played such a game itself.
 
Interesting, but very unlikely as even in OTL the USA and USSR did not give out nukes like party favors. And I think here it is even more so as the ideological dimension is totaly missing. Aiding with conventional arms... sure all the better for the USA. But they should do it in a way that is not too obvious. Or else all nations that find themself host to USAmerican weapons will like them much less. And the alliance systems are simply not there to buffer such snubbing by other world powers.
Also remember, that the Empire has a "good" track record in helping others in need.


I can only say, ones Freedom Fighter is the other sides Rebel / Insurgant...
And it not like the USA never played such a game itself.

Who are you working for…., Maby B(lofeld)ush sr.??? The more nukes are spread about, the easier it is to pinch one for the dark side.
 
Nancy if she takes the job with Volkswagen will immediately recognize the potential for the Beatle as a great car for college students and low paying professionals like teachers and nurses to own and that is how the initial marketing will be presented to the American people.
Nancy will also see the VW Bus as great way to get to the beach and to take on camping trips.
I can the formation of the German-American Anti Defamation League with the mission statement of "Never again will any American citizen be made ashamed of their German Heritage, nor shall they suffer any discrimination from it".
They could join with the Jewish Anti Defamation League and the NAACP in pushing for Civil Rights laws across the country and on the federal level.
Paul is most likely to get a transfer in grade to another agency like the Rural Electrification Administration and be sent to Bumf**k Mississippi to collect surveys and write summary reports that will never be read.
President Truman may take the opportunity in his Inaugural Address to call on the American people to reject the irrational fears and prejudices that has held back the country and Vice President Johnson having had a large German-American constituency in Texas will take the lead in pushing that line.
 
Part 68, Chapter 997
Chapter Nine Hundred Ninety-Seven


1st February 1953

Off Zeeland, Netherlands

The SMS Prinzessin Kristina had no sooner come out of refit then she had been pressed into service. That wasn’t the only thing that had come as a surprise for Peter. It was learning that the ship’s namesake had tried to talk her way aboard when she had put to sea from Wilhelmshaven early that morning. No one expected that an eleven-year-old Princess would have been able to do a whole lot. Mostly what they were doing was treating hypothermia and trying to figure out what to do with people who had been rescued from the storm surge that occurred the night before, inundating a large part of the Netherlands.

Still, Peter in his capacity as a General in the Medical Corps had issued a press release commending Kristina for her civic mindedness and making in known that if she was still interested in a few years when she got older the JMC would be more than happy to have her. He also mentioned that this reflected well upon the mentor of the Princess who had been working to instill such values without mentioning her name. Everyone knew that cats didn’t like it when they were the center of attention, Peter thought to himself with a touch of amusement. He had heard that beyond the Joint Medical Corps thousands of men in the Heer, Luftwaffe, the Pioneer Corps and the KM had been sent into the Netherlands for the relief effort in one of the largest emergency mobilizations since the end of the Second World War.

Peter heard the sound of the helicopter before he saw it. It might have been painted in KM colors, but the red crosses left no doubts as to mission involved. As he watched the Marine Infantry started to unload several stretchers and there was a Major who seemed to be in command. He recognized the pallid skin of those too cold to even be shivering and a few with splinted arms and legs. Wherever the Marines had found these people it was clear to Peter that it had been in the nick of time. With that the helicopter took off as Peter started the task of assessing the new arrivals. Mostly it was a matter of getting them out of the cold and damp and into dry clothes. Severe cases were a bit tricky, if someone had stopped breathing then heroic methods needed to be applied quickly. To Peter it seemed like something greater than just medicine. With techniques pioneered just a few years earlier it looked like they were bringing the dead back to life. He knew the truth though, they were doing no such thing. As Peter finished sorting through the injured he heard the sound of another helicopter and ran to the fantail. As soon as he arrived he saw that this one was painted in the colors of the Belgian Army. These were strange times Peter was living in, he had to give it that.


Schouwen-Duiveland, Netherlands

“What a damned waste” Stefan heard Jost say as they as they found yet another field full of drowned livestock. Cattle this time. In the search and rescue effort, this had been the bulk of what they were finding as the waters receded. They had seen in the distance the frantic efforts of the Pioneer Corps to repair the dykes.

“Just be glad that happened now and not August” Stefan replied, “Could you imagine the smell?”

“It couldn’t be worse than the battlefields during the Soviet War” Jost said as they plodded through the soggy fields. “Your brother ever tell you about that?”

“No” Stefan answered.

“Diesel fuel, rotting bodies, sewage and dust” Jost said, “That is what it smelled like. It’s hard to get a smell like that out of your head.”

Since Stefan had made it back from Mexico, Staber Schultz had behaved differently towards him. It wasn’t just because of his elevation in rank. It was a question of respect. When Stefan had led a Platoon into Mexico City he had proven himself to the Staber. It was fortunate because when he had returned to Wunsdorf-Zossen he had found his personal life had grown complicated. When he had been in Mexico, word had gotten around that he and Nizhoni were an item. To the Officer’s wives who made up the Social Set of the Garrison town it was to sort of thing that fueled gossip and speculation. To them he was a member of one up and coming family courting the daughter of another, a romantic match between Stefan and Nizhoni was a sort of fairy tale in real life. General von Horst had said nothing, but Nina had been not so subtle in her prodding Stefan to get around to asking the question.

“Hey, Spanish rules you idiots!” Jost yelled as they approached a farmhouse.

Spanish rules were a slang term for the regulations that had been adopted by the Heer at the start of the Spanish War governing the conduct of units in the field towards civilian populations. In the decade and a half since, those rules had been adopted by the other nations in the European Defense Pact as well. Here in the Netherlands, what it looked like in practice was knocking on the front door as a warning, before they kicked it in.

Looking at the front of the farmhouse, Stefan could see a line on the wall which had been the high-water mark here up around the eaves. As it was the water looked like it was still ankle deep around the back of the house. He heard the crash of the front door being kicked in.

“Lieutenant, you need to see this” Came the call from inside the house.

As much as Stefan steeled himself for what was inside, he still wasn’t prepared to see what looked like three generations of a family having drowned in their beds.

“Get on the radio and call this in” Stefan said, “Someone has to know who these people are.”
 
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