Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II

PLEASE have the rocket not use liquid hydrogen as fuel for especially the first stage main engines. Kerosene/LOX (aka kerolox) is so much safer than LH2/LOX (aka hydrolox), and so much less of a technical hurdle and a point of failure for these early rockets. Early hydrolox engines also tend to have a much lower thrust than kerolox engines due to the much lower density of liquid hydrogen compared to kerosene. A kerolox first stage is also likely to be cheaper in early rockets than an equivalent hydrolox first stage too due to the much-reduced technical challenges and the very expensive cost of creating the liquid hydrogen, despite the kerolox stage being larger due to the lower specific impulse (aka efficiency, usually counted in seconds- higher is always better). If you absolutely have to use hydrolox for some literary reason, have the rocket use hydrolox second or third-stage sustainer engines to provide the final push into orbit like what hydrolox stages had been limited to until the Space Shuttle; sustainer engines are where the main advantage of hydrolox (better specific impulse and lower weight) is actually useful in earlier launch vehicles.
(Though on the earlier rockets like this one, is it is still safer to stick with kerolox sustainers due to the major technical challenges of early hydrolox; the Soviet R-7 rocket family- which included the Vostok-K rocket that brought Yuri Gagarin into space as well as the Soyuz launch systems, used kerolox engines for both their lower and upper stages, the modified Atlas D launch vehicles used in the OTL Mercury program used kerolox for lower and upper stages, while the Titan II launch vehicles used in the OTL Gemini program used Aerozine-50/nitrogen tetroxide, described below. It was only in 1963 IOTL that a hydrolox engine, the American RL-10, had a successful flight)

And I don't know if you had planned this or not, but NEVER have the rocket's orbital maneuvering systems and/or engines for in-orbit work use hydrolox; or kerolox for that matter. Anything with a cryogenic propellant or oxidizer is out for in-orbit work (unless you are only sitting in orbit for up to like three orbits or so before launching a payload out from a low earth parking orbit (which is between like 165km or so to like 225km or so- the lower the better except for some hydrolox stages as boiloff is somewhat less with reduced atmospheric density) to try to achieve a geostationary/geosynchronous/Molniya/whatever orbit or more likely even further away, like for trans-lunar injection or for going out of the Earth's sphere of influence) for many decades at least due to the boiloff that occurs with cryogenic systems due to the heating of the spacecraft caused by solar energy (Even LOX has this problem).

Your only real bet for the orbital maneuvering systems, RCS systems, and in-orbit (vacuum) engines is to use bipropellant hypergolics, which are liquid at room temperature and crucially do not require external ignition to ignite, only needing the oxidizer and fuel to mix for the reaction to occur. The best options to use for fuel would be hydrazine-based fuels, including MMH (monomethylhydrazine, a derivative of UDMH, which was used in the Space Shuttle OMS), UDMH (Unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine, which the Russians, Chinese, and Indians use IOTL; slightly lower specific impulse than MMH but cheaper), and Aerozine-50 (a combination of half hydrazine and half UDMH which has slightly better specific impulse than UDMH alone though has a somewhat shorter shelf life, used for the Apollo Lunar Module and the Titan and Delta rocket systems; replacing the UDMH in Aerozine-50 with MMH also could possibly work and is slightly higher specific impulse than regular Aerozine-50 or MMH alone). Plain hydrazine alone as one component of a bipropellant fuel is another choice that has an even higher specific impulse of ~343,5s with typical nitrogen tetroxide oxidizer (though only like ~0,7% better in vacuum than the ~341,5s specific impulse of MMH or Aerozine-50 propellant and N2O4 oxidizer, and only ~0,3% better in vacuum than the ~342,5s of a hypothetical modified version of Aerozine-50 that uses MMH instead of UDMH as propellant and N2O4 oxidizer), though I wouldn't really recommend hydrazine due to the storability problems it has; especially at high temperatures.

There is only one real choice for oxidizer for bipropellant hypergolics; nitrogen tetroxide. The two other options that were used IOTL, red fuming nitric acid and hydrogen peroxide, are far inferior to nitrogen tetroxide. Using RFNA as an oxidizer results in an ~8% or so lower specific impulse compared to N2O4 oxidizer, while hydrogen peroxide has storability problems as it slowly spontaneously decomposes into water and oxygen gas, making it very hard (along with other factors) to reach the purities needed to reach high specific impulses, which even still max out at less than that of nitrogen tetroxide even at 100% purity. (Don't use chlorine trifluoride or chlorine pentafluoride as oxidizers. Just don't.)

Bipropellant hypergolics are also a relatively good option for first stage main engines and second and third stage sustainers; the ~285s sea level and ~333s vacuum specific impulse of UDMH/nitrogen tetroxide, used in the Soviet Proton family of rockets, and the ~289s sea level and ~341,5s vacuum specific impulse of Aerozine-50/nitrogen tetroxide, used in the American Titan family of rockets, are only somewhat worse than the ~300s sea level and ~358s vacuum specific impulse of kerolox. (which still is definitely much lower than the ~389s sea level and the ~455s vacuum specific impulse of hydrolox, but still.) This lower specific impulse of hypergolics compared to kerolox could probably be considered an acceptable tradeoff due to the reduced infrastructure required for the launch facility; especially since it is in Vietnam, so far away from Germany. Germany also probably has a pretty good base of technical skills and understanding for hypergolic main engines due to the fact that it is very probable that the German ICBMs use the same type of N2O4 and hydrazine-based hypergolics for their engines (a lot of OTL mid-era ICBMs between used N2O4/UDMH or Aerozine-50-fueled engines as the propellants were storable); lots of OTL launch vehicles used rocket engines originally designed for intercontinental ballistic missiles, and it wouldn't be that much of a stretch for the Germans ITTL to do the same.

Another option for in-orbit work is to use a monopropellant of most likely just plain hydrazine running across a heated iridium/alumina catalyst (used IOTL in many space probes and landers on other planets); no oxidizer required. Hydrazine monopropellant has a lower specific impulse than bipropellant hypergolics, but is simpler. Another monopropellant option is a blend of nitrous oxide and a lighter hydrocarbon, which is initially run through a heated catalyst causing the nitrous oxide to decompose into nitrogen and oxygen gas (modern-day work is being done on ethane/ethene/ethyne mixed with N2O); which can have a potentially much higher specific impulse than hydrazine monopropellant; though the specific impulse still would most likely be less than the bipropellant hypergolics; I personally wouldn't recommend a mixed monopropellant due to the inherent dangers of oxidizer and propellant being in the same mixture.

Sorry for my long word-spewing rant; I hope that it wasn't too onerous. (My god, that was a lot longer than I expected it to be)

SOmeone's been reading Ignition. I agree whole heartedly on this by the way, having read the book.

Is he going for a water or landing on the ground?
 
SOmeone's been reading Ignition. I agree whole heartedly on this by the way, having read the book.

Is he going for a water or landing on the ground?

I've actually never read Ignition (though have heard a little bit about it), funnily enough. A whole bunch of my knowledge comes from me sinking hundreds, probably even 1000+ hours, into the Realism Overhaul suite of mods for Kerbal Space Program, actually. (You basically need to know a whole shitton of real life rocketry information in order to even start thinking about playing Realism Overhaul, as it is Kerbal Space Program in our actual solar system except you are the actual American/Soviet space programs on Earth, with EVERYTHING being from real-life data)
 
Part 77, Chapter 1165
Chapter One Thousand One Hundred Sixty-Five


4th February 1956

South Pacific, West of the Marshall Islands

ATTENTION ALL SHIPS

Pacific exclusion zone to be enforced by all available assets.

That was a short message that had arrived nine days earlier, the sort that was normally used when there was a nuclear test in these waters. It was enough to get the SMS Esel driving East at flank speed along with every other ship of the Pacific Fleet, the Esel arrived in position only a day and a half behind the rest of the Fleet. It wasn’t until the Captains of the ships were briefed a day earlier that they had been informed about what was going on. The Luftwaffe had launched a manned mission into space and they were to be on the look out for the capsule when it returned from orbit. Though Christoph had felt completely out of place in the Admiral’s Wardroom the Officers didn’t seem to mind, there were even a few who seemed envious. Word had gotten out about the recent action where the Esel had acquitted herself well. They might have the much newer ships that went a lot faster and didn’t smell as bad, the Esel was where the action was. They all knew it.

The crew was understandably dazzled when they learned what they would be doing. Christoph knew full well that the patrol aircraft would be doing most of the work in the vast expanse of the South Pacific, he still had most of the crew up top on look out. It kept them busy and out of trouble as they talked excitedly among themselves, the smart ones were below getting some sleep because they knew that was the best use of their time. As the “Captain” sleeping right now was a luxury that Christoph didn’t have at that moment. They were expecting several visits from their dear old friends from England, Australia and America. The result was that the Esel was headed for the edge of the exclusion zone where he would be expected to use his diplomatic skills to convince them to leave. He figured that he would get a chance when they got through laughing about being intercepted by an old Trawler.

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Later the Press coverage would say that the mission had been flawless, and Albrecht would laugh about it to the bewilderment of everyone around him. It wasn’t until a decade later when the movie got made that they finally got it right.

No sooner than Huginn 1 had gotten into orbit than something tripped a few of the circuit breakers in the capsule. He had been plunged into darkness as he had been looking at the horizon which was unlike anything he had ever seen before. It had taken a couple minutes to get interior lights back on, then a few more to get the radios back up and flipping the breakers while weightless have proven to be an unexpected challenge. By then Mission Control was having kittens. Then Albrecht had then sweated through the process of making sure that the guidance computer had not gone down as well. If the situation hadn’t been so serious, he would have been amused by the fact that the computer was one that he had helped design years earlier when he had been involved in the Aggregat Project. After that he was able to use the maneuvering thrusters to get Huginn into proper attitude. After that he was recording his observations and conducting the experiments that were a part of the mission checklist. The window though, it was hard to take his eyes off it as the earth passed below.

Then Albrecht saw that the mission clock had passed five hours and Mission Control told him that it was time to start reentry. He had spent hours practicing the procedure in the simulator. Still, nothing could have prepared him for what happened as Huginn hit the atmosphere and the orange glow that was seen through the window. He was in the middle of a shooting star…

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The crew had insisted that what they were picking up on the radio be put over the intercom. They were listening intently as word went out that Huginn was off course and all ships were redirected to the northern end of the exclusion zone. Before Christoph even gave the order, the Helmsman had the Esel pointed on that course. To his surprise a plume of red smoke was visible on the horizon a few minutes later and the long contrails from fixed wing aircraft were overhead.

The Esel was the first ship on the scene as they saw the Huginn bobbing in the water on the flotation devices that had deployed when it had hit the surface. It was too large to haul aboard the Esel, but the men were able get a few lines on her securing her to the side of the Trawler. To Christoph’s astonishment, it was Albrecht von Richthofen who climbed out of the capsule. The crew had seen the patches on his flight suit and the already celebratory atmosphere had become euphoric, it had been one of their own who had gone to space and he had served aboard the Preussen with the Captain.

“Who was stupid enough to make you an officer?” Albrecht asked.

“It’s just legalistic bullshit” Christoph replied as he watched Albrecht get a drink shoved into his hand. Local arrack that could probably be used to fly that rocket ship of Albrecht’s. In a couple hours the crew would be pretty much worthless. This same thing could probably be said for the much of the Fleet as they got here. “They needed someone in charge of this scow, so they had their weasels come up with the idea that I would be an acting line officer, whatever that means. Eventually, they’ll sort things out and things will go back to how it was before.”

Albrecht shook his head and smiled. “That is what they told you?” He asked, “They lied, that move basically made you a Lieutenant pending instruction in Flensburg. If you ever make it back there.”
 
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Let see what is going to happen next...
First a quick trip to Berlin for a PLM from the Emperor, followed by the biggest parade that Berlin has ever seen (weather permitting).
An announcement that the space program is going to be a civilian endeavor by taking it out of the control of the Luftwaffe .
The new head of the new civilian space agency is the newly retired Grand Admiral Jacob von Schmidt.
 
It occurs to me that naming your spacecraft after the ravens that Odin sends out into the world to spy and bring back intelligence to him, may not have been an accident. Of course they can always say they were talking about science and research, but everyone who cares about military applications will be able to realize the potential benefits of this peaceful endeavor. This should help with the funding that the other competitors in the space race will need.
 
Is the International Geophysical Year that started IOTL in January 1957 still going to happen?
It was from that the Van Allen Belts were discovered and that a certain solar activity happened that showed the need for special shielding for manned space craft.
The United States built the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Research Station in support of the IGY in November 1956.
 
Oh, the irony.........

Albrecht is going to get the Jesus entering Jerusalem treatment as he enters Berlin, and his first leg on that Journey is on the S.M.S. Esel (German for Donkey, or Ass).
 
So he will be raised into the O-5 or O-6 ranks...... As things go, it's more likely that he will be raised to the rank of Captain, specially after the rewiew of his actions what would show that he performed way beyond the best expected from him....

Plus, having the commander of a moon landing be Captain is rather fitting XD
 
Around the world there are going to be editorial cartoons depicting Manfred von Richthofen in his Fokker D.1 triplane and being told to "Move over Pops" by Albrecht in his Rocket ship.
 
I8jello wrote:
They're using liquid hydrogen as propellant- and even for the first stage? Seriously? The first OTL American engine that used LH2, the RL10, only saw its first flight in 1962.

Actually the LR-87H program which tested the (then) kerosene/LOX version as a LH2/LOX version between 1958 and 1960 before moving on to the version using storable propellants. It was a backup to the J2 initially and since it was an Air Force missile engine wasn’t commonly known till long after the RL10 was flying. (www.astronautix.com/l/lr87lh2.html)

Kerosene/LOX is a much more realistic option for this first flight- especially for the first stage; sure, the specific impulse is not as good as LH2/LOX, but has much greater energy density (and thus less weight used in tankage) and crucially only requires the mixture to be cooled down to the boiling point of liquid oxygen- not the 20 degrees Kelvin of liquid hydrogen. This very low boiling point caused liquid hydrogen for a very long time to be shunned for all but second-stage sustainer engines; only recently with much greater technology improvements is LH2 being used in disposable first stages.[/quote]

I’d assume it was an upper stage engine because that’s where LH2 shines. Von Braun wasn’t a fan and initially refused to research it and the military had little interest beyond supporting (OTL) Centaur and the RL10. (The LR-87H was a backup to both the J2 and could be substituted for the RL10 if it had issues. As it was it was Centaur, not the engines which had the issues) Keep in mind as well that LH2 engines in a booster or first stage tend to waste a LOT of propellant getting moving which is why they use other boosters or solid rockets. There’s a good reason the Delta-IV Heavy is one of the least efficient or economical rockets out there.

SOmeone's been reading Ignition. I agree whole heartedly on this by the way, having read the book.

Is he going for a water or landing on the ground?

"Ignition" has some issues with accuracy for certain non-mainstream propellants but is generally a good overview of the subject. It also shows how rocket-people did not talks to aircraft-people and vice-versa on a lot of issues :)

He'll land in the, oh PM ninja'd me :)

I've actually never read Ignition (though have heard a little bit about it), funnily enough. A whole bunch of my knowledge comes from me sinking hundreds, probably even 1000+ hours, into the Realism Overhaul suite of mods for Kerbal Space Program, actually. (You basically need to know a whole shitton of real life rocketry information in order to even start thinking about playing Realism Overhaul, as it is Kerbal Space Program in our actual solar system except you are the actual American/Soviet space programs on Earth, with EVERYTHING being from real-life data)

Kerbal does that to people, as does AHdotCom and NASAspaceflightdotcom :)

Couple of points for PM:
"Huginn 1"? That was the first ever "Huginn" capsule flown? Really? More like "Huginn 3" or later at least and yes the test missions count.

Shoddy mission planning really they should have had assets ON STATION at all times during the mission. A capsule at sea is one leak away from being a deadly submarine, as "Liberty-bell 7" showed. I'll grant story wise it might seem to make sense but it's a jarring context. Unless the sea landing was totally unplanned they'd have had a carrier on site and helicopter along with fixed wing assets and damn who's "flight" it was.

"Flipping circuit breakers in zero g" hard? Not at all they can be easily reached from his seat while strapped in. He'd done more under worse conditions at this point.

Albrecbt going to be put in quarantine? If so, the crew of the Esel will probably have to as well.

No quarantine, he wasn't "exposed" to anything as he was in the capsule the whole trip.

It occurs to me that naming your spacecraft after the ravens that Odin sends out into the world to spy and bring back intelligence to him, may not have been an accident. Of course they can always say they were talking about science and research, but everyone who cares about military applications will be able to realize the potential benefits of this peaceful endeavor. This should help with the funding that the other competitors in the space race will need.

Anyone who didn't know that was possible or likely hasn't every used an airplane for the same purpose. Satellite observation was a quite real suggestion and research object from the very first suggestions in the 30s. Given the way this tends to go you can expect the US to lodge a VERY strong protest over the "illegal" over-flight of a German national without permission. Despite how stupid that complaint is.

Let see what is going to happen next...
First a quick trip to Berlin for a PLM from the Emperor, followed by the biggest parade that Berlin has ever seen (weather permitting).
An announcement that the space program is going to be a civilian endeavor by taking it out of the control of the Luftwaffe .
The new head of the new civilian space agency is the newly retired Grand Admiral Jacob von Schmidt.

Actually back to Vietnam for a full check up and debriefing while they get ready in Berlin for the celebration. Doubtful they will see any need or desire to put the space program under "civilian" control and ditto with putting Schmidt in charge as it will remain a "military" program. (Keep in mind the US has been the only nation to fully separate it's "space programs" by nature) Since Schmidt is getting 'retired' soon it is unlikely that anyone is going to even suggest on putting him in or around a key military program. (And again, anyone who thinks this will be a 'civilian' program needs to look at the Space Race OTL deeper. Germany has zero incentive to even consider the idea)

Is the International Geophysical Year that started IOTL in January 1957 still going to happen?
It was from that the Van Allen Belts were discovered and that a certain solar activity happened that showed the need for special shielding for manned space craft.
The United States built the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Research Station in support of the IGY in November 1956.

Doubtful on the IGY as the nations OTL that suggested and supported it have no reason to do so TTL. If the Germans haven't discovered the belts by now they aren't doing much with their space program. If so they first they will 'know' of it is when Albrecht's hair starts falling out and he's puking his guts out. (5 hours inside them would be a bad thing)

PM hasn't said but if TTL had the same "Antarctic Exploration Period" in the 20s and 30 OTL did then probably not as "isolationist" politics tended to have a lower priority on exploration for exploration's sake. It is also unlikely that Antarctica is NOT being activily exploited since that only came about OTL after a major international conference post-WWII. Did Germany get in on the rush or did it lose out?

Randy
 
Part 78, Chapter 1166
Chapter One Thousand One Hundred Sixty-Six


6th February 1956

Wunsdorf-Zossen

The Luftwaffe was pissed, the Joint Medical Service was aghast, and the Kaiserliche Marine was gleeful. Emil felt exactly the same as he did when he got home to find that Zella and Walter had been fighting again and Maria told him that he needed to deal with his rotten children.

The plan had been to have Kapitänleutnant Albrecht von Richthofen be the subject of intense research as soon as he splashed down. Instead, he had been picked up by an armed Trawler and the crew had happily invited him aboard for the celebration that was just getting started. Now new plans were being made and the SMS Esel had been ordered to proceed at best possible speed to Vietnam. The Doctors who had boarded the Esel had described it as a floating petri dish, Captain Hase and the crew he led were little better than the pirates they hunted. The Kapitänleutnant had been flown to Vietnam. Emil had to wonder how a ship had ended up with a name like that.

In Berlin, things were advancing rapidly. A special act of the Reichstag was progressing that would remove a large part of the Space Program, namely manned exploration, from the direct control of the Luftwaffe and create a new civilian agency along the lines Nuclear Program that had been run by the Wilhelm Institute. That was something else that the Luftwaffe was angry about, they were going to be furious when they found out who was expected to be the first head of the agency. It was something that Emil wasn’t thrilled about either, but at least it might keep him from being too destructive.

The public had no idea that any of that was going on, they just knew that a massive scientific and national achievement had occurred. Already, Emil had received calls from members of the Reichstag asking if a Raumfahrer would be eligible to be inducted into the Pour le Mérite if they were already a member of the Order of Hohenzollern. It was obvious what they were getting at, Albrecht von Richthofen had received the Knight’s Cross, Order of Hohenzollern for flying over a hundred sorties from an Aircraft Carrier during the Mexican Campaign.


Washington D.C.

“It’s the usual boilerplate, Sir” The Press Secretary said, “We congratulate them on their achievement, call an advance for the entirety of humanity and call for the peaceful exploration of outer space so that future generations share the fruits of our labors.”

It sounded like a load of crap to Truman. The Krauts were under no illusions about what they were doing. Huginn One was named for the raven that gathered intelligence for Odin. While publicly they were saying that it was a part of a theme. The project was named for Atgeir, the Spear of the Gods and that Huginn was all about the pursuit of knowledge, pure research. They seldom did things by accident and if something had two meanings then it was very likely that both were true. The NACA were telling anyone who would listen that they had a plan to catch up, then terms like Federal involvement in education and reallocation of resources started being thrown around. All Congress heard was expanding Government and raising taxes, though the representatives from the NACA had said nothing of the sort. There were times when Truman thought that there was something in the water in much of America that made people who were smart enough to know better act stupid. It was the exact same wall that he had hit with the proposed Medicare Act, except that had race mixed in with it as well. Perhaps having a German rocket passing overhead a half dozen times, or having one launched by the British in a few weeks would change their minds. Truman wasn’t holding his breath.

“What do we know about this pilot?” Truman asked.

The Press Secretary flipped through folders until he found and opened the right one. “Albrecht Werner Oswald Wolff von Richthofen” He read aloud, and Truman could only imagine the sort of stuffy aristocrat that would have a name like that. “Lieutenant Commander in the German Navy. Born in Breslau, Silesia, military family, his father is a retired Luftwaffe Field Marshall and a Count, Manfred von Richthofen, also known as the Red Baron. He is presently thirty-two years of age, graduated from the University of Berlin in 1947 with a Doctorate in Computer Science after studying at that University and the Technical University of Berlin. Knocked around for a few years in the private sector and holds several patents, computer related mostly. Joined the Navy later and has medals for his involvement in Argentina, South Africa and Mexico.”

“That is what the CIA is telling us?” Truman asked.

“No, Sir” The Press Secretary replied, “The CIA hardly knew this man existed until a few days ago beyond an incident where one of our aircraft nearly shot his down over Mexico. Most of this is from a press release provided by the German Government. Here are the photographs, Sir.”

The German Government knew that they had a hero on their hands and were doing their best to lionize him. Looking at the photographs, Truman saw that he didn’t look like a Naval Officer, more like a collegiate uncomfortable in a uniform. In one of the photographs he was posing with a young woman who was identified as Doctor of Science Elisabeth Tritten von Mischner.

“Who’s she?” Truman asked.

“The German Press is presenting her as a love interest” The Press Secretary replied, “In Germany and England she is sort of a big deal in academic circles, Environmental Science. Not exactly mainstream.”

Then something caught Truman’s eye.

“He was picked up by His Majesty’s Ship Ass?” Truman asked.

The Press Secretary hesitated for a second, “Ass or Donkey Sir” he said, “The real name is SMS Esel which happens to translate to that, a Naval Trawler if my understanding is correct.”

How on Earth did that happen?
 
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There is almost a better than even chance that most the rest of the world will think this whole astronaut / SMS Ass pick up is just another one of Creepy Schmidt’s stunts.

Actually make that odds on, any takers?
 
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