Probably something like BundesligaDeutscheFußballverein. I feel like Kaiserliche should be shoved in there somewhere too.
Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II
- Thread starter Peabody-Martini
- Start date
Just because information about sex was more limited does not mean there weren’t plenty of couples in times past who had plenty of fun (including the women). A lot can be figured out and a lot more comes with communication and real intimacy.
Victorianism did a lot of harm in the Anglo-American world, but even then it is hard to tell what the world really was like.
Victorianism did a lot of harm in the Anglo-American world, but even then it is hard to tell what the world really was like.
"Sexual intercourse began in nineteen sixty three" everyone knows that, I learned that in English Lit ;-)
I once took a course on Classical Literature, one of the subjects discussed was a Comedy about the women of Greece refusing to have sex with their husbands and lovers until the ongoing wars between the City-States were ended. That means that people have been doing it since at least 411 BC...
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Honestly annoyed with Berg shaming Kiki for enjoying herself.
Then again, I utterly hate Berg more than any character in this story, so meh.
Then again, I utterly hate Berg more than any character in this story, so meh.
Not so much shaming, more like telling her not to wake up her neighbors.
One of my favorite things is to reality check young adults who believe everything started with them, including sex. I remind them that everything they and their partner have tried - so have their parents and their grandparents. Giving rise to a great ewwww look.
But now my daughter is married with children and Daddy is going ewwww.
But now my daughter is married with children and Daddy is going ewwww.
Ben's doing something right, then.
Comes with communication, experience, and sometimes a bit of luck, too.
Having sex and enjoying the experience are two different things though.
You're acting like your grandparents didn't have, or enjoy sex.
As long as they don't get relegated they'll have a shot. I, for one, would love to see them win the League and give Bayern Munchen and Borussia Dortmund what for.
Marc A
It might be interesting what sort of effect the changed situation has on women sports. With women in the military and other originally male dominated fields being a thing, women's leagues might make see an earlier rise.
At this point football is likely still much less commercialized than it is today, which could make things easier.
Most teams are still part of clubs that have groups and teams in a number of different sports and age groups. Having prominent female fans may well translate not just into having more fans but also into having more girls join to be part of the club and playing in girls' and women's teams.
As for Kiki, if she goes on like this, one day she might find herself in the opposite side of this conversation. She already had a talk with her younger sister about sexuality and stuff. As she grows older and pursues her career in medicine she might find all sorts of younger girls confiding in her and seeking out her advice and she may also find herself giving out advice where none is requested.
One day she may wake up and look in the mirror and realize she has become her own Dr Berg to a younger generation.
At this point football is likely still much less commercialized than it is today, which could make things easier.
Most teams are still part of clubs that have groups and teams in a number of different sports and age groups. Having prominent female fans may well translate not just into having more fans but also into having more girls join to be part of the club and playing in girls' and women's teams.
As for Kiki, if she goes on like this, one day she might find herself in the opposite side of this conversation. She already had a talk with her younger sister about sexuality and stuff. As she grows older and pursues her career in medicine she might find all sorts of younger girls confiding in her and seeking out her advice and she may also find herself giving out advice where none is requested.
One day she may wake up and look in the mirror and realize she has become her own Dr Berg to a younger generation.
Poor Ben. The Kaiser must really be debating himself about whether or not having Ben launched into deep space (or the sun) would be a good idea.
As for Kiki's security detail... its a good thing that the higher ranks are the ones who have to make the call on informing the Kaiser about his daughter's relationship status.
As for Kiki's security detail... its a good thing that the higher ranks are the ones who have to make the call on informing the Kaiser about his daughter's relationship status.
Part 100, Chapter 1597
Chapter One Thousand Five Hundred Ninety-Seven
20th October 1963
Mitte, Berlin
Sometimes, everything that you had been warned about for months, even years, comes to pass and you wonder why you didn’t listen. Ben had a lot of time to think about that as he was dragged out of his bedroom in the middle of the afternoon by two men with no necks and scarred knuckles. He had caught a glimpse of his mother and father with shocked expressions on their faces as he had those two brutes holding him by the arms and marching him down the stairs. They had shoved him into the back of a waiting car and every question he asked was met with silence. Minutes later when the car stopped, he was dragged out by the collar and through what looked and smelled like tunnels until they came to two steel doors that slid open. Ben was pushed in and was roughly shoved into the back wall as he felt the floor move and he realized that this was a rapidly ascending elevator.
When the elevator stopped, a bell chimed cheerfully in direct counterpoint to what was going on aboard it. Seconds later, Ben was marched across what must have been a street at one time with his feet hardly touching the ground, but the ends had been blocked off by walls topped with concertina wire. Warning signs proclaimed that it was electrified. It was then that he realized where he was, the Hohenzollern Palace used to have an apartment block adjacent to it. Sometime after Soviet agents had gained access to the Palace just before the Second World War those buildings had been purchased and were said to have been put to other purposes. The buildings that housed the headquarters for the more secretive Government and Military agencies supposedly, including the BND, BII and KSK.
That wasn’t the direction that they were taking Ben, and in many ways that was worse. Because there could only one man with the power to have Ben yanked out of his home like this where they were going. Finally, after being marched through a security checkpoint, up numerous stairs and down hallways Ben was dragged through a doorway and into a room that reminded him strongly of every time he had been sent to the Headmaster’s Office in Primary School, only this time was worse. The Headmaster had never had a personal motivation in dishing out punishment. The two men who had marched Ben in here made a point of throwing him to the floor in front of the desk, taking one last opportunity of letting him know just who was really in charge here.
The Louis Ferdinand looked over his desk at Ben. “You can leave us, Aviv” He said.
That thug’s name was Aviv? Ben had a hard time squaring that.
“Sir” Aviv said, before he gave Ben a contemptuous look and leaving with his buddy.
Ben couldn’t help but noticing that there was nowhere to sit on this side of the desk, leaving him no choice but to stand there enduring whatever was in store for him. Getting to his feet with as much dignity as he could muster, it was only a question as to just how bad this ultimately became.
“I spend a lot of time pretending that I don’t understand what is going on with my children” Louis said, “Unfortunately, circumstances don’t always allow me to turn a blind eye and you are now getting a good look Benjamin.”
That didn’t sound good.
“I know that my daughter has always needed to live her life on her own terms and is an unconventional young woman” Louis said, “The problem is that my own people are reluctant to talk to me about her activities. Care to enlighten me about the role you have played.”
Ben wasn’t stupid. He knew that there was absolutely nothing he could say that wouldn’t make matters worse.
“Lou Junior, my youngest son, is leaving for New Swabia on a two year expedition in a few days” Louis said mildly, “If you don’t speak up on your behalf, I will arrange for you to be sent to Kiel to be on that ship when it leaves.”
That sounded brutal. Since Ben had joined the Luftwaffe Reserve, he had heard jokes about New Swabia. That there were outposts in that frozen Hell whose personnel was composed of those who had angered someone in a powerful enough position to make it happen. Ben had the Emperor himself threatening to make exactly that happen to him.
“Kiki has one rule” Ben said, “I am not to talk to her about the future, ever.”
That didn’t even start to explain what had happened over the last couple years.
“Marriage, children, even finishing University” Louis said, “You expect me to believe that you’ve never discussed any of that? Especially considering how long the two of you have been together.”
Ben gulped. He would have asked Kiki to marry him in a heartbeat except he already knew what her answer would be.
“I’ve tried” Ben said, “But she always shuts that down by telling me that we are impossible as a couple. Eventually, the world is going to pull us apart, so talking about the future is pointless.”
Louis stared at Ben for an extremely long moment.
“Exactly what is that supposed to mean?” Louis asked, “Is that some sort of excuse?”
It was hardly an excuse, but how did Ben convince someone like Louis Ferdinand of that?
20th October 1963
Mitte, Berlin
Sometimes, everything that you had been warned about for months, even years, comes to pass and you wonder why you didn’t listen. Ben had a lot of time to think about that as he was dragged out of his bedroom in the middle of the afternoon by two men with no necks and scarred knuckles. He had caught a glimpse of his mother and father with shocked expressions on their faces as he had those two brutes holding him by the arms and marching him down the stairs. They had shoved him into the back of a waiting car and every question he asked was met with silence. Minutes later when the car stopped, he was dragged out by the collar and through what looked and smelled like tunnels until they came to two steel doors that slid open. Ben was pushed in and was roughly shoved into the back wall as he felt the floor move and he realized that this was a rapidly ascending elevator.
When the elevator stopped, a bell chimed cheerfully in direct counterpoint to what was going on aboard it. Seconds later, Ben was marched across what must have been a street at one time with his feet hardly touching the ground, but the ends had been blocked off by walls topped with concertina wire. Warning signs proclaimed that it was electrified. It was then that he realized where he was, the Hohenzollern Palace used to have an apartment block adjacent to it. Sometime after Soviet agents had gained access to the Palace just before the Second World War those buildings had been purchased and were said to have been put to other purposes. The buildings that housed the headquarters for the more secretive Government and Military agencies supposedly, including the BND, BII and KSK.
That wasn’t the direction that they were taking Ben, and in many ways that was worse. Because there could only one man with the power to have Ben yanked out of his home like this where they were going. Finally, after being marched through a security checkpoint, up numerous stairs and down hallways Ben was dragged through a doorway and into a room that reminded him strongly of every time he had been sent to the Headmaster’s Office in Primary School, only this time was worse. The Headmaster had never had a personal motivation in dishing out punishment. The two men who had marched Ben in here made a point of throwing him to the floor in front of the desk, taking one last opportunity of letting him know just who was really in charge here.
The Louis Ferdinand looked over his desk at Ben. “You can leave us, Aviv” He said.
That thug’s name was Aviv? Ben had a hard time squaring that.
“Sir” Aviv said, before he gave Ben a contemptuous look and leaving with his buddy.
Ben couldn’t help but noticing that there was nowhere to sit on this side of the desk, leaving him no choice but to stand there enduring whatever was in store for him. Getting to his feet with as much dignity as he could muster, it was only a question as to just how bad this ultimately became.
“I spend a lot of time pretending that I don’t understand what is going on with my children” Louis said, “Unfortunately, circumstances don’t always allow me to turn a blind eye and you are now getting a good look Benjamin.”
That didn’t sound good.
“I know that my daughter has always needed to live her life on her own terms and is an unconventional young woman” Louis said, “The problem is that my own people are reluctant to talk to me about her activities. Care to enlighten me about the role you have played.”
Ben wasn’t stupid. He knew that there was absolutely nothing he could say that wouldn’t make matters worse.
“Lou Junior, my youngest son, is leaving for New Swabia on a two year expedition in a few days” Louis said mildly, “If you don’t speak up on your behalf, I will arrange for you to be sent to Kiel to be on that ship when it leaves.”
That sounded brutal. Since Ben had joined the Luftwaffe Reserve, he had heard jokes about New Swabia. That there were outposts in that frozen Hell whose personnel was composed of those who had angered someone in a powerful enough position to make it happen. Ben had the Emperor himself threatening to make exactly that happen to him.
“Kiki has one rule” Ben said, “I am not to talk to her about the future, ever.”
That didn’t even start to explain what had happened over the last couple years.
“Marriage, children, even finishing University” Louis said, “You expect me to believe that you’ve never discussed any of that? Especially considering how long the two of you have been together.”
Ben gulped. He would have asked Kiki to marry him in a heartbeat except he already knew what her answer would be.
“I’ve tried” Ben said, “But she always shuts that down by telling me that we are impossible as a couple. Eventually, the world is going to pull us apart, so talking about the future is pointless.”
Louis stared at Ben for an extremely long moment.
“Exactly what is that supposed to mean?” Louis asked, “Is that some sort of excuse?”
It was hardly an excuse, but how did Ben convince someone like Louis Ferdinand of that?
Poor Ben.
Then again, at the start of this update, I thought the Jacobins got him.
I'm honestly not sure which would he worse in his eyes.
Somethings stay the same throughout the Infinite Multiverse.
The Dad With Shotgun trumps all else, even a decorated multi-ace with his own nickname and legend rivaling that of the Red Baron's.
Marc A
The Dad With Shotgun trumps all else, even a decorated multi-ace with his own nickname and legend rivaling that of the Red Baron's.
Marc A
A father is going to have a serious talk with his daughter, methinks.
And methinks said daughter is going to be a touch miffed when she here’s about this.
And methinks said daughter is going to be a touch miffed when she here’s about this.
No doubt.
But a Father's protectiveness is infinite, even over their daughter's personal feelings (to at least some degree...)
Besides, what Ben just said there about the whole "no future thing" - Louis is probably going to explode to some extent. For better or worse Louis has allowed all of his kids a freedom of choice, yes he has had tighter control of Freddy because he is the heir - but they have all had a choice in terms of how they want to pursue a career and love/life - Kiki saying that to Ben is pretty much a slap in the face to Louis, and also brings out that he really does not know his daughter as much as he thinks.
Then again, the whole "I have no future thing" is eerily like Kat.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy Louis having some bully-boys strongarm Ben into having a conversation with him. He's the Kaiser (even if in name only, as Germany is a Constitutional Monarchy) and legally should have gone through the chain-of-command and "requested" Ben's attendance. Such a "request" would have been recognized as the order to appear that it was.
Ben is a highly-decorated pilot, should be at least a Captain (German equivalent) or even Major (as befitting his numerous awards, time in service, and excellent performance reports), and you don't treat or disrespect good officers that way unless you intend on cashiering them. The German Officer Corps would throw hissy fits if the 'word' ever got out about the total disrespect & criminal behavior the Kaiser has just exhibited towards one of their own. Had Louis simply 'requested' Ben's attendance, Ben would have shown up like lightning, whether he liked it/wanted to or not. As an Officer in the German military, you don't turn down a "request" by the Kaiser, especially if it comes through the Chain of Command (which exists for a reason).
If Louis was intending on discrediting & perhaps burning the Monarchy to the ground, he's just stepped into it! If it is ever learned that the Kaiser had a German Officer (regardless his/her rank or branch of service) kidnapped & roughed-up (albeit mildly) over a personal family matter ... well, the republicans in the Reichstag would not just stop at demanding Louis' abdication; hey, willy-nilly, suddenly the "German Empire" is now the "Federal Republic of Germany" and the Hohenzollern family would be, at best, just some wealthy landowners (if they weren't stripped of most of what they own [the "Crown Jewels" & "Crown Lands" for example]). The Palaces would be seized by the new democratic government and become museums while the Hohenzollerns would have to find new digs.
The Kaiser isn't just any "Dad." He can't go off and pull the stuff depicted in this chapter! He's the fricking Emperor of Germany & Environs, and the figurehead of the German government. He doesn't have the authority to do the "off with his head" thing, and as far as doing the 'strongarm' thing to get Ben's attention … I would hope the Kaiser of Germany would have better discipline & self-control than to engage in the kind of criminal behavior P-M has him pulling in this latest installment.
Look, the only secret that can be kept is when there is only 1 person knowing that secret. I believe, from my experiences, that the odds of a secret being exposed goes up logarithmically as more people learn said secret. And already, too many people know - not only the Kaiser's bully-boys, & the driver (also a bully-boy) but Ben's parents were there and saw what happened, and they are likely calling the police reporting a kidnapping before Ben's kidnappers are more than a block away. Any neighbors out and about mid-day (or looking out a window) could also have seen the kidnapping, and will be questioned by the police. So there is going to be an official police record and people should remember that the Germans keep very good records [See what happened to the East German STASI after the Fall of East Germany]. And if there's a police record, nosey reporters on the police beat will generally find the report and do their journalistic thing. Case blown wide open! "Oh, look, the Ship of State is sinking!"
If Louis planned this whole FUBAR mess, he's an idiot; a fool; dumber than a box of rocks. And that doesn't fit in with what we already know of Louis.
I would also hope the Kaiser is smart enough and wise enough and disciplined enough to keep his nose out of his ADULT daughter's personal, intimate life. If Kiki learns of her father's actions vis-à-vis Ben as depicted herein, oh, my, but huge amounts of fecal material will impact the active high-speed air circulation device!! One doesn't want to be in the same county when Kiki lets her father have it - right between the eyes, so to speak. No matter what the Kaiser has done to Ben, what Kiki will do to her father will be orders of magnitude worse! Can you say, "Nuclear Option?"
Just sayin'.
On edit: If Louis wants to know what his daughter is doing, he shouldn't be a fricking coward; he should get some balls and ASK Kiki, not beat up, humiliate, and massively disrespect Ben. Besides, doesn't Louis understand the "Don't kiss & tell" rule that Gentlemen follow?
Ben is a highly-decorated pilot, should be at least a Captain (German equivalent) or even Major (as befitting his numerous awards, time in service, and excellent performance reports), and you don't treat or disrespect good officers that way unless you intend on cashiering them. The German Officer Corps would throw hissy fits if the 'word' ever got out about the total disrespect & criminal behavior the Kaiser has just exhibited towards one of their own. Had Louis simply 'requested' Ben's attendance, Ben would have shown up like lightning, whether he liked it/wanted to or not. As an Officer in the German military, you don't turn down a "request" by the Kaiser, especially if it comes through the Chain of Command (which exists for a reason).
If Louis was intending on discrediting & perhaps burning the Monarchy to the ground, he's just stepped into it! If it is ever learned that the Kaiser had a German Officer (regardless his/her rank or branch of service) kidnapped & roughed-up (albeit mildly) over a personal family matter ... well, the republicans in the Reichstag would not just stop at demanding Louis' abdication; hey, willy-nilly, suddenly the "German Empire" is now the "Federal Republic of Germany" and the Hohenzollern family would be, at best, just some wealthy landowners (if they weren't stripped of most of what they own [the "Crown Jewels" & "Crown Lands" for example]). The Palaces would be seized by the new democratic government and become museums while the Hohenzollerns would have to find new digs.
The Kaiser isn't just any "Dad." He can't go off and pull the stuff depicted in this chapter! He's the fricking Emperor of Germany & Environs, and the figurehead of the German government. He doesn't have the authority to do the "off with his head" thing, and as far as doing the 'strongarm' thing to get Ben's attention … I would hope the Kaiser of Germany would have better discipline & self-control than to engage in the kind of criminal behavior P-M has him pulling in this latest installment.
Look, the only secret that can be kept is when there is only 1 person knowing that secret. I believe, from my experiences, that the odds of a secret being exposed goes up logarithmically as more people learn said secret. And already, too many people know - not only the Kaiser's bully-boys, & the driver (also a bully-boy) but Ben's parents were there and saw what happened, and they are likely calling the police reporting a kidnapping before Ben's kidnappers are more than a block away. Any neighbors out and about mid-day (or looking out a window) could also have seen the kidnapping, and will be questioned by the police. So there is going to be an official police record and people should remember that the Germans keep very good records [See what happened to the East German STASI after the Fall of East Germany]. And if there's a police record, nosey reporters on the police beat will generally find the report and do their journalistic thing. Case blown wide open! "Oh, look, the Ship of State is sinking!"
If Louis planned this whole FUBAR mess, he's an idiot; a fool; dumber than a box of rocks. And that doesn't fit in with what we already know of Louis.
I would also hope the Kaiser is smart enough and wise enough and disciplined enough to keep his nose out of his ADULT daughter's personal, intimate life. If Kiki learns of her father's actions vis-à-vis Ben as depicted herein, oh, my, but huge amounts of fecal material will impact the active high-speed air circulation device!! One doesn't want to be in the same county when Kiki lets her father have it - right between the eyes, so to speak. No matter what the Kaiser has done to Ben, what Kiki will do to her father will be orders of magnitude worse! Can you say, "Nuclear Option?"
Just sayin'.
On edit: If Louis wants to know what his daughter is doing, he shouldn't be a fricking coward; he should get some balls and ASK Kiki, not beat up, humiliate, and massively disrespect Ben. Besides, doesn't Louis understand the "Don't kiss & tell" rule that Gentlemen follow?
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Yeah, this is either impulsive and profoundly damaging to the monarchy (pride leads to fall) or is a lot melodramatic for what a constitutional monarch whose institution is attacked from multiple fronts would do.
I mean this goes way beyond Peter Townsend and Margaret Windsor and is an outright abuse of power.
I mean this goes way beyond Peter Townsend and Margaret Windsor and is an outright abuse of power.