Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Peabody-Martini, Sep 17, 2018.

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  1. misterwibble Well-Known Member

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    Which would get her a massive bollocking, followed by an NCO walking away with a big smile thinking "That's what we want to see."
     
  2. Threadmarks: Part 93, Chapter 1458

    Peabody-Martini Well-Known Member

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    Chapter One Thousand Four Hundred Fifty-Eight


    24th August 1961

    Shenyang, Liaoning, China

    There were times when Jonny just wanted to punch something.

    First the mail had caught up with them and he had received a letter from Gloria that briefly described what had happened in Berlin. Then she had concluded with a line about how they needed to talk as soon as he got back from China. Jonny knew that was how a woman said that they were kicking you to the curb but would prefer to tell you to your face rather than do it in such an impersonal manner as a Dear John letter. As the others in the Squad put it, some girls liked to eat their food live after having it suffer for an extended period of time. So, Jonny had that to look forward to if he ever made it back to the States from this Far Eastern Hellhole. He had considered firing a letter right back at Gloria telling her not to bother but had never found the time because it all got overtaken by events that had absolutely nothing to do with them.

    It was because the Goddamned morons in Beijing were trying to kick dirt in the face of the Government in Seoul again, and once again the Koreans were not backing down. When Jonny had gone with Parker into Beijing to get briefed on the current situation by some State Department flunky he had heard as much. It seemed that no one had learned the big lesson from the events of the previous year. Namely that the Chinese Army was in no state to fight a war and wouldn’t be for a long time, if ever. The Kuomintang have managed to make their domestic problems go away for a little while, that seemed to be their only take away from it. The thing was that the problems were not things that were going away. The people of China were collectively unhappy with the Authoritarian One-Party State that the KMT had maintained since they had stomped out the Chinese Communist Party decades earlier.

    If there was a war, Jonny’s opinion was that the Chinese might win it the same way that they had beaten the Japanese, just by sheer weight of numbers. The difference was that the Koreans would be fighting on their own turf and they would not have been sitting still over the prior year. The Sino-Korean Frontier was probably festooned with barbed wire and landmines and every inch of land within range of Korean artillery batteries would have been surveyed. The Krauts were rumored to have sold heavy artillery to them, so anyone too close to the border was likely to get blasted to smithereens. Merely the opening act of the bloodbath that would follow. The kick to the head that came at the end of all of that was that the Chinese Government had said that they would be suitably grateful to the United States Government if Green Beret soldiers who were guests in their country found a way to bypass the Korean defenses.

    It was all Jonny could do to hold his silence and not yell the obvious truth into the State Department flunky’s face. The frauds in Washington saw this as a way to score an easy victory on the international stage using as few resources of their own as possible. Just have the Chinese play the role of cannon fodder while the Koreans along with their allies get bled white trying to stop them. There were all kinds things wrong with that plan. If someone like Jonny could see that, then those idiots in Washington D.C. had no excuses.


    Laupheim, Württemberg

    “You look terrible” Zella said as she sat down next to Kiki as she had been shoveling food into her mouth without tasting it. There was a long hike through the countryside scheduled for the afternoon and Kiki had been warned about what might happen if she skipped a meal or had simply not consumed enough calories for the day. Fainting or collapsing would mean instant washout.

    Kiki had just come from a nightmarish morning spent learning the finer points of swimming, treading water and conducting a water rescue. All done until she was so tired that she couldn’t see straight and having the stares of her fellow trainees to contend with. Up until they had started this latest round, they could pretend that they didn’t notice her being a girl considering that the clothes she was wearing were about as revealing as a brick wall. It wasn’t as if Kiki was particularly attractive. She had always been thin and the athleticism she had been required to embrace since she had joined the Medical Service had given her a rectangle body type that Klaus Voll had said was wonderful because it made her easy to dress. Still, when she was wearing the swimsuit that she had been issued one might have thought that she was wearing the skimpiest atom style swimsuit from the reaction she had gotten. It had made for a difficult morning. Having Zella show up was exactly what she needed right now.

    Zella was a bit surprised when Kiki hugged her.

    “I just wanted to see if you were well” Zella said as she pushed Kiki back.

    “I’m better now that you are here” Kiki replied.

    Zella looked a little annoyed by that comment.

    “How did you get onto the airfield?” Kiki asked, “Isn’t it restricted?”

    “Poppa made a few calls for me and he still has a lot of friends in the Luftwaffe” Zella replied, “Did you read my letter?”

    It was Kiki’s turn to be annoyed. There were times when Zella could be incredibly pigheaded and myopic when it came to those she cared about. Her loyalty to Kiki and Aurora was endearing even if she caused a lot of problems because of it.

    “Look, I can handle your Uncle Peter and Doctor Berg in my own way” Kiki replied, “You need to let me do it.”

    “It doesn’t bother you?” Zella asked, “It should.”

    “Generalstabsarzt Holz is due to retire before I’ll get a chance to even get back to University” Kiki said, “Berg will just continue doing what she has been doing. Keep things in perspective please.”

    Kiki could tell that Zella wasn’t thrilled with that answer, but for now it would have to do.
     
  3. Dan I am happy to work with anyone, except everyone.

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    So essentially, Kiki knows what is happening and with the natural balance between Zella and Kiki, Kiki is the "Good Cop" and Zella is the "Bad Cop".
     
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  4. A. Morgan Stranger in a Strange Land

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    To use the “Kat” analogy that’s around here. Kiki is just a sleepy well fed housecat and Zella is Smilodon with a very bad toothache. And with all the subtlety thereof.

    P.S. Emil seems to have mellowed in his retirement. Pulling strings to get his daughter onto a restricted base? Anything for a peaceful life ......

    Edit: typo
     
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  5. Dan I am happy to work with anyone, except everyone.

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    A good General knows which battles not to fight.
     
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  6. Rinasoir Occasional Author

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    It would also be really minor strings to pull considering who his daughter wanted to see.

    Kiki's title, while it would piss her off, does confer certain perks, that someone higher up would think that allowing the former head of the military's daughter visit her on base is one of those.

    Especially as, again, this isn't Boot Camp. She doesn't need to be totally broken down and should have some liberty days available to her as, again, she is not some raw recruit/conscript.
     
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  7. FickleCrossroad Pizza-Cheesesteak 2020

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    That sort of training probably doesn't have liberty days, but outside of being on call for spontaneous training exercises, off-duty time will be freer than a recruit in basic training.
     
  8. ejpsan Well-Known Member

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    It looks like China is going to make the border dispute with Korea a crisis every summer until something snaps either by going to war, Chiang Kai-shek gets disposed or both.
    Once again let me state that China has bigger problems then Korea, uneven food distribution, small industrial base as compared to their overall population, internal domestic problems like Tibet and the Moslem Western Provinces.
    There is also India to be wary of and the probability of Russia interfering with the status of Manchuria.
    Right now I think that Germany is deploying "Third Generation" jet aircraft and has sold off their earlier jets to Korea while China would be very lucky to be flying P-80 Lightnings, in other words China is so screwed that words cannot begin to describe it.

    Jonny and Gloria while liking each other very much and both deeply respecting and appreciating each other very much are just too different and going in separate directions in their lives to make their relationship work for the long haul right now.

    It looks like Kiki is beginning to understand the realities of the politics of her being in the JMS and maybe she can use that to her advantage.
    BTW are log drills in where logs are lifted up and down by squads are a thing in parachute training in Germany because Kiki is a bit shorter than the others in her training class.
     
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  9. Dan I am happy to work with anyone, except everyone.

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    I wanted to question these parts as we don't have a Maoist China attempting to force unity of Mao's version of Communism over any and all ethnic and social divides, so would Chiang live and let live with the Muslim Western provinces so long as they don't make any trouble?

    The other part is Tibet. Again, without Mao's ego, would Tibet have brought itself to Chiang's attention? It would stillbe an independent nation although probably 60-70% of it's trade would be with China, (most of the rest with India). I don't think Chiang would have had an issue with Buddhists or Buddhism so there's not that reason to invade. Of course, there's Chiang's personality, and the disciples of Mao will still be around so that doesn't mean China will be internally peaceful though.
     
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  10. FBKampfer Ardent Arguer

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    India is also a nonfactor. The Himalayas are..... Well, not impassable exactly, but they're pretty much impassable and on any important scale.
     
  11. ejpsan Well-Known Member

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    I have absolutely no idea of what Chiang Kai-shek policies were in regard to to Tibet and Moslem Chinese, all the information I have learned about Chiang Kai-shek has been more about his fights against the various warlords, the Communists and Japan, but if he was able to defeat all of them ITTL unlike IOTL then I could see his attention being drawn to those areas.
    Chiang Kai-shek ego is no shrinking violet compared to Mao Zedong and Tibet has been considered by the Chinese as being part of the historical Chinese Empire and the main question is how much autonomy those areas have ITTL or are they under tight control of Beijing?
     
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  12. Mandolin Well-Known Member

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    The whole India/Pakistan slapfight over that stupid glacier has resulted in more deaths by weather than actual combat. The Indians literally designed a new helicopter to resupply troops at 21,000 feet.

    Combat in the Himalayas is impossible. Leaving aside all the issues of temperature and weather, the air is too thin to do much.
     
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  13. ejpsan Well-Known Member

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    There are some disputed areas that both India and China claim for themselves and a war did breakout between them in OTL 1962, so that could happen ITTL...
     
  14. Dan I am happy to work with anyone, except everyone.

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    To be honest, I had no idea either which is why I had to ask, in case you knew more than me.
    However, having a quick look, Chiang considered, as had the Emperors, (and Mao in OTL), Tibet to be a province of China.
    I found this article, part of which is below, (India, China and Tibet by D K Sen, 1951)
    download.gif
    This would indicate that Chiang would basically speak as if Tibet were Chinese, and that the Lhasa government were nothing more than a regional government. So if India and China were to go into conflict, there would be no request to use Tibet as a staging post, it would just happen. Any resistance would be met with a Mao style invasion. I think with regards to Tibet, Tibet politely ignore Chinese claims to sovereignty, as they've done for hundreds of years, while China quietly ignore Tibet ignoring Chinese claims to sovereignty and things seem to work out.

    China's war against Japan did drive Chinese interests westwards though, so where Beijing may have been ignorant of the western Muslims existence previously, now they know, so there could be some decidely Chiang style enforcement going on if the western Chinese inhabitants object to how Chiang trying to be the "Glorious Leader" over that way.
     
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  15. Rinasoir Occasional Author

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    Chiang will, as per OTL, last only for as long as it takes a broad coalition of interest groups to remove him.

    And considering this time there is no threat of the PRC crossing the Straits to use as an excuse, methinks that timw would be a lot sooner than OTL.
     
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  16. ejpsan Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking of a Ngo Dihn Diem scenario...
     
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  17. Sir Omega Lord of Spectators

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    Well, they don't have to fight on the summits. They can just apply the teachings of William Philips :
    "Where a goat can go, a man can go. And where a man can go, he can drag a gun."
     
  18. jerard Well-Known Member

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    Isn't Moslem considered derogatory? That's what I've heard anyway but that might just be ignorance.
     
  19. ferdi254 Well-Known Member

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    There are pictures of goats on the dry side of dams which would defy that statement. Just google „Ziegen auf Staudamm“.
     
  20. Dan I am happy to work with anyone, except everyone.

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    Sheer side of a dam wall? Ibex laugh at these things. x'D
     
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