Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II

[ejpsan]

The United States has only two good options, but first they must apologize to Asia and the German government and let her go.
The options are either to turn her or burn her.
It is extremely doubtful that Asia can be turned so the United States should burn first by sending her mugshot and fingerprints to every intelligence agency that they can contact.
Second IOTL the CIA had reporters on the payroll at several different newspapers in Europe and the United States can give background information that one of Kira’s spies was caught in the United States while at the same time refusing to confirm the story in public.
This will make Asia ineffective as an operative from now on.

 

[Dan]

Where this could get sticky as a domestic scandal is the Senators daughter involved in narcotics and sapphism with a foreign spy.
This gets messy for the senator personally. Quietly it gets messy for Ness as he was asked for help and did "worse than nothing" in the senator's eyes as it's blown up. This makes an additional enemy for Ness which he can do without.
I have little doubt that if Asia is committed then she'll be out before long, either "released" into the custody of FBI via a "written order from the Deputy Director" signed perfectly and dropped into the file, or Asia disappears without a trace until she turns up in Germany where everyone agrees that's where she was all along.
The alternative, if the new President wants to play hardball, is that any undeclared US intelligence officer in Germany will find themselves quietly scooped up, processed, declared PNG and put, unannounced to the State Department, on the next Flight back to America.
The Americans will do the same to the Germans and feel smug that they've dealth the Germans a blow against their intelligence operations. They will have done some damage, but the effects will be over estimated. Same with the perceived damage to American operations in Germany. Meanwhile, the Russian, French and British Intelligence services will be laughing at both of them.

Forgot to add: the OSS or their successors will also be mad at the FBI, (nothing new there), for screwing up their operations in Germany for no real return, and the BND will be quietly annoyed at the Order for doing the same.

The downside is that Asia isn't a German Intelligence operative, she's an emissary of the Empress of Germany. Even the German nationalist press are likely to side with the Order on this "attack on the very crowned head of the German state"!
(Although probably written in all caps with more exclamation marks to indicate greater indignation)

 

[Rinasoir]

The downside is that Asia isn't a German Intelligence operative, she's an emissary of the Empress of Germany. Even the German nationalist press are likely to side with the Order on this "attack on the very crowned head of the German state"!
(Although probably written in all caps with more exclamation marks to indicate greater indignation)

Really? I mean yes, the more far-right papers might take that angle, but the more liberal press is likely to point out how an organisation that, in spite of attempts to become more transparent, has had one of its members worsen international diplomatic relations through the consumption of narcotics and sexual deviancy.

And then it's real easy for the "if this is what we know about, what are they hiding from us?" thinking to take the ball and run.

So either Asia gets a serious punishment for this or the Order gets a black-eye. And I think by now we all know which one Kira is more likely to choose.

 

[Dan]

Really? I mean yes, the more far-right papers might take that angle, but the more liberal press is likely to point out how an organisation that, in spite of attempts to become more transparent, has had one of its members worsen international diplomatic relations through the consumption of narcotics and sexual deviancy.

I think you've missed the target there.
A young woman has been discriminated against because of her gender and sexuality by the Americans who still, (ITTL), think that the colour of your skin or how you pray to God is a perfectly good reason to treat a person as if they are some sort of animal? Not sure the liberal papers, unless they are particularly anti-monarchist, will go the route you suggest. Can you see the BT going that route?
Especially once Nancy Schultz gets let loose to do her thing.

Publicly, Asia is the victim in all of this as far as the Germans are concerned. Privately may be a very different matter, but publicly they will close ranks.

 

[ejpsan]

A possible way to break Asia is to have a new interrogator speaks to her and tell her that the German consulate in Boston and the German Embassy in Washington has informed them that they have no record of her and that the passport is a forgery.
Also tell her that they been in contact with the Hozenhollern Palace and they said that Asia is not part of the Order of Louise and they vaguely remember Asia as a former body double for Grand Duchess Jehane but that was a long time ago and that have not kept track of her.
If the CIA has been on the ball, they would know that someone with the history like Asia's will have a fear of abandonment and the CIA will tell the FBI that may be the best way to get at her.

 

[FBKampfer]

I think the issue many are forgetting is that Asia has known connections to the German intelligence network, including US citizens who (from the US standpoint) straight up defected, has been caught having entered Canada under an assumed identity, and is part of the Order, which is suspected by everyone with half a brain to be a defacto intelligence department.



If not for prosecution, the US has plenty of grounds to detain her pending investigation, given that the risk of flight borders on certainty.

 

[A. Morgan]

A possible way to break Asia is to have a new interrogator speaks to her and tell her that the German consulate in Boston and the German Embassy in Washington has informed them that they have no record of her and that the passport is a forgery.
Also tell her that they been in contact with the Hozenhollern Palace and they said that Asia is not part of the Order of Louise and they vaguely remember Asia as a former body double for Grand Duchess Jehane but that was a long time ago and that have not kept track of her.
If the CIA has been on the ball, they would know that someone with the history like Asia's will have a fear of abandonment and the CIA will tell the FBI that may be the best way to get at her.

All well and true. However, when given the mission to deliver the bonds she was given an understanding that should she be arrested there would be efforts made on her behalf IIRC. I can see the Kaiserin doing something politically expedient and disavowing Asia but think it highly unlikely. She is loyal to her underlings. Kat on the other hand, will move heaven and earth to get her back.

The Criminally Inept Agency and the FBI need to make sure her capture is absolutely quiet .... or it won’t be pretty.

I doubt Kat would intervene personally but Gia’s legal contacts could be a powerful tool. Not to mention Colonel Blackwood and Canadian Intel. I’m sure the Canadian’s won’t mind having the Germans/Kaiserin owing them a favour.

I doubt the Americans wil like other nations services knowing they’re still playing silly games and as others have mentioned there is always the court of public opinion (enter Nancy stage right).

Best just to put Asia on the plane and tell her never come back.

 

[Rinasoir]

I think you've missed the target there.
A young woman has been discriminated against because of her gender and sexuality by the Americans who still, (ITTL), think that the colour of your skin or how you pray to God is a perfectly good reason to treat a person as if they are some sort of animal? Not sure the liberal papers, unless they are particularly anti-monarchist, will go the route you suggest. Can you see the BT going that route?
Especially once Nancy Schultz gets let loose to do her thing.

Publicly, Asia is the victim in all of this as far as the Germans are concerned. Privately may be a very different matter, but publicly they will close ranks.

I'm talking Liberal as in Democratic, not Liberal as in "Free Love" and all that Jazz.

This is a woman who, at the absolute very least, has acted in a way unbecoming of a diplomat (considering the visa she is operating under). She might be getting treated badly by the Americans, but that does not in the slightest mean this can't lead to a national scandal and, if it got particularly bad, an official censoring of the Kaisarin by the Reichstag. And the Royal Family would have to take it, or else fight the government, and that is a fight they can not win.

Hell being in favor of Asia and against the Order of St Louise are not mutually exclusive in this circumstance.

And this is an alternative 1950's, but it is still the 1950's. Hell, it's a 1950's where Germany has remained a fairly right of center nation and retained the monarchy and nobility. An awful lot of the center (especially Zentrum funnily enough) are going to be of the opinion the Americans were right to discriminate against her based on her sexuality, and a not insignificant amount will also agree with discriminating against her because of her gender. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they called for her to be handed over to Germany just so she could serve a jail term in Germany itself.

I mean think about this, in modern terms this is like finding out a Transexual (a lot of people hate Trans people today because of their gender, so it is the analogy for the time) member of the US Secret Service went to a foreign country, had sex with a child (just going for what would be as shocking today as this would be to the people in this story at this point in time), smoked a bunch of crystal meth, and then got arrested, all while on a diplomatic passport.

No amount of "us v them" thinking is going to get anything more than a small part of the national community to support what they did.

I still maintain this is stupid as hell, she should not have tried to catch an airplane.

However I trust Peabody-Martin to make this entertaining and enjoyable to read.

All well and true. However, when given the mission to deliver the bonds she was given an understanding that should she be arrested there would be efforts made on her behalf IIRC. I can see the Kaiserin doing something politically expedient and disavowing Asia but think it highly unlikely. She is loyal to her underlings. Kat on the other hand, will move heaven and earth to get her back.

The Criminally Inept Agency and the FBI need to make sure her capture is absolutely quiet .... or it won’t be pretty.

I doubt Kat would intervene personally but Gia’s legal contacts could be a powerful tool. Not to mention Colonel Blackwood and Canadian Intel. I’m sure the Canadian’s won’t mind having the Germans/Kaiserin owing them a favour.

I doubt the Americans wil like other nations services knowing they’re still playing silly games and as others have mentioned there is always the court of public opinion (enter Nancy stage right).

Best just to put Asia on the plane and tell her never come back.

At best, she is burned forever and exiled from the US, but it won't be without fanfare.

This is a US that is hurting from multiple international humiliations, especially at the hands of Germany, and this could easily be an opportunity to get one over on the Germans and serve as a useful outlet for the national tension, after all, what releives national tension better than a good old fashioned "look at how we beat our enemies" moment.

Stack the whole case against her, and then have it so that the President offers to commute her sentence to exile, after it has been on every front page in the world, and he can come out looking better on the world stage. Hell, if part of the whole pageant is having her remanded to a "better" federal prison and the FBI agent who sent her to where she is going getting fired for gross incompetence, that would just be more points to the Ami's on the world stage.

And how is Germany realistically going to hit back? Do a sweep of American assets in Germany? That would suit the incoming administration perfectly, it would get rid of their compromised assets, easily be blamed on Truman and Dewey, and allow the new President to "play the game" with a brand new deck.

As for Gia's legal contacts, if the US government wants to stack the deck hard enough, they won't make a bit of difference.

 

[AgentOrange]

All this talk about her being an intelligence asset. No mention of the place they're sending her.

Polish, sexually deviant, woman, lunatic asylum, mention of not being much left of their girl and lost paperwork.

Thinks happening in asylums in those days: forced sterilization, electro "therapy", lobotomies.

This has nothing to do with containing an intelligence asset. This is lets show the girls their place. They embarrasses us, we destroy them. As far as they are concerned tit for tat, as for Germany, casus belli.

 

[ShortsBelfast]

Asia is "Polish". No matter what the leading German politicians think about her sexuality, this is a wonderful opportunity to remind the Poles that Germany is their protector and guarantor. And redirect those angry nationalist sentiments into anti-American demonstrations. It is also a wonderful opportunity for the pro-German element of the Polish governing elite to show that they are patriotic too at no great political cost. So if it gets to the political level there will be a huge fuss.

 

[Rinasoir]

All this talk about her being an intelligence asset. No mention of the place they're sending her.

Polish, sexually deviant, woman, lunatic asylum, mention of not being much left of their girl and lost paperwork.

Thinks happening in asylums in those days: forced sterilization, electro "therapy", lobotomies.

This has nothing to do with containing an intelligence asset. This is lets show the girls their place. They embarrasses us, we destroy them. As far as they are concerned tit for tat, as for Germany, casus belli.

Not to mention the high possibility of rape or other sexual assault.

She isn't going somewhere nice, hence my suggestion that one of the first things to be done would be moving her to a federal prison and firing the FBI agent as ways to minimize the damage to the US image.

 

[matzeskatze]

If she was "five minutes from bording" then she was already through all checks and the air line would have known it. Also the diplomatic status would be known to them. So they will talk in Paris about the detainment of her and that will rise a stink.
So the Americans that think they can keep her for an indetermind time are sorely mistaken and if any irregularities are detected then the American prestige and standing internationaly will take a major hit.

 

[MBerco]

If she was "five minutes from bording" then she was already through all checks and the air line would have known it. Also the diplomatic status would be known to them. So they will talk in Paris about the detainment of her and that will rise a stink.
So the Americans that think they can keep her for an indetermind time are sorely mistaken and if any irregularities are detected then the American prestige and standing internationaly will take a major hit.

Also John Aleshire is still a German asset. He's going to tell the BND.

 

[ejpsan]

One of the things that we are forgetting about is what is the reaction of President Harriman is going to be?
If this timeline's Harriman has basically the same resume as the OTL Harriman then we might see a President that understands what the diplomatic ramifications are in this mess and knows how to get out of this with the minimum amount of fuss for both sides.
Sen. Lodge may be part of a new emerging bipartisan consensus on foreign policy and is allying himself with President Harriman, IOTL Lodge worked with both Republicans and Democratic Presidents and ITTL Harriman may have him in mind for an important diplomatic post like the League of Nations of even Ambassador to Germany itself.
So far there hasn't been any publicity about Asia being arrested and if that continues then everything can work out for the best for everyone and Asia will becomes Kira's problem to handle on her own without any official sanctions being imposed.

 

[Wet Coast]

Really? I mean yes, the more far-right papers might take that angle, but the more liberal press is likely to point out how an organisation that, in spite of attempts to become more transparent, has had one of its members worsen international diplomatic relations through the consumption of narcotics and sexual deviancy..

We know what happened because the author told us, but all anyone else knows is that there was claimed to be another woman in the apartment who may have looked like Asia. She was not found at the scene by the authorities so it sounds to everyone else like very much a case of "round up the usual suspects".

Anybody that actually saw her there can easily be discredited. Something along the lines of "What do you expect from drug users who are trying to cut a deal with an organization that has a history of enmity to the Order". Heck play it right and you can spin the fact that it's a Senators daughter into a sting operation/conspiracy by the US government targeting innocent German tourists for nefarious intelligence purposes.

 

[Peabody-Martini]

Chapter One Thousand Two Hundred Twenty-Three


23rd April 1957

Berlin

Kat felt like she was sick to her stomach. Everything had gotten screwed up. Asia had overstayed in the United States, she was supposed to have returned weeks earlier after getting a gauge of the American public during the Presidential Inauguration. Instead she had run off doing God knows what in the weeks since and she had gotten caught by American Law enforcement though no one was saying what she had been detained for. The BND had somehow learned what had happened. They were not saying much because their source was highly placed, and they didn’t want to risk compromising that individual. The AA were trying to keep the whole thing quiet because of whispers of the things that Asia had been suspected of doing. What it all amounted to was their intention to do nothing but wait and hope that it resolved itself somehow. For reasons that were too obvious to even mention, no one wanted the public anywhere to know about Asia.

Kira had directly ordered Kat the rein in the sisterhood because they wanted to rescue Asia but doing so would be considered an act of war. She had also made it clear that if Kat herself went she had better die in the attempt because she would not be welcomed back after that action. The thing that Kat found most galling was that Kira had made it clear that Asia had been following Kat’s example, she’d been playing on the edge of disaster for years. Now one of her girls had fallen over that ledge, whatever was going to happen to Asia was going to be a consequence of that and it would be something Kat would have to live with.

They knew where Asia was being held, Danvers State Hospital and there were a lot of chilling implications to that. By sending her there, they skirted American Law. Normally, they arrested someone and then had to have an arraignment. According to Kat’s own sources Asia had not actually been doing anything illegal when she had been detained other than trying to leave the country. Kat also knew that State Hospitals in the United States were houses of horror. Kat knew that Asia would die before she broke her silence. It was something that worked against her in this instance, it was easy to see how that could be made to look like psychosis and if Asia got pushed hard enough to push back…

Kat didn’t even want to think about what the consequences would be if that happened. And she had received word that Gia had vanished, and Anya was staying at the house belonging to Robert Capa and Gerda Taro. Gia had done that to conceal her movements from Kat because whatever she was doing was something that she didn’t want Kat to know about.


Moscow, Russia

“She is my adopted sister as much as Katherine is” Gia said, “And nothing is being done to get her back.”

Georgy shrugged.

“They are being realistic” Georgy replied, “I do however find it amusing that you are now coming to me for help.”

That was not what Gia wanted to hear.

“You’ve enjoyed the benefits of your position but have taken on few of the responsibilities” Georgy said, “Having a friend in a bad situation that you are helpless to do anything about falls under that.”

That was almost exactly what Kira had said, Gia would not give Georgy the satisfaction of telling him that though.

“You aren’t going to help me then?” Gia asked.

“No, I didn’t say that Sasha” Georgy said, “There will be conditions.”

Gia heard that and knew that whatever Georgy was about to ask for would be as Czar and not as her cousin. All of the warnings that Kat had given her about royalty were suddenly at the forefront of her mind. They never gave anything without demanding twice that in return. But this would be for Asia, someone who Gia felt she owed more to than she would ever be able to repay.

“What do you want?” Gia asked.

“Not much” Georgy replied, “You are an Imperial Grand Duchess of Russia like your mother before you, you need to start taking the obligations of that seriously.”

Gia paused for a few seconds uncertain of exactly what Georgy was asking of her.

“I’m not going to ask you for anything unreasonable” Georgy said, “It is however long past time that the daughter of Tatiana Nikolaevna came home.”

That sounded reasonable unless one knew that it would give Georgy control of most aspects of Gia’s life.


Danvers State Hospital, Danvers, Massachusetts

The sound and smell in this wing were impossible to get used to as Asia had found. She had spent days trying to be silent and inoffensive after she had learned that she had been effectively buried in this hospital, in an effort to convince these people that she was harmless. That had been undone in an instant of violence.

The smug asshole in a white coat who was her jailer had ignored the fact that the Orderly in question had ended up with ruptured testicles because they had been out where they didn’t belong. Instead he had blamed Asia’s alleged promiscuity and deviance. She had seen how the Doctor had gotten off on the hypocrisy of his statements. It wasn’t about sex with him, it was about power and control.

When she had been dragged into maximum security wing the Orderlies had not attempted to assault her sexually after that. They preferred to do that sort of thing when they wouldn’t have witnesses. Instead they had taken their frustrations out on her with a beating that had lasted several minutes. The last thing she had heard from the Doctor was that a specialist was coming who dealt with cases like hers after he had made sure that she wasn’t going to die of her injuries.

 

[Knightmare]

Another thing to consider.

There's a fair bit of Polish-Americans. If the story is spun right.....

There'll be hell to pay, politically speaking.

 

[matzeskatze]

While it is interesting to see the Americans indulging their baser aspects, the non reaction of Germany and the Kaiserin is concerning.

The Person of Interest had a freaking diplomatic pasport and was about to board an airplane. So she was in the pipeline to go back to Germany and should have told them in some capacity. That the officialdom in Germany and Paris is then doing nothing is Imo implauseble as she was in Americe in official capacity. ´(However much abused it was.)

So at least some random bureaucrate should ask the Americans why the person was detained and point out that the diplomatic passport is not a joke.

Abd Kira then should realisticaly told Kat and the Order what was being done to get the member back. As all that will directly relate how the Order will see itself and what to expect in the future.

 

[Salamander]

When she had been dragged into maximum security wing the Orderlies had not attempted to assault her sexually after that. They preferred to do that sort of thing when they wouldn’t have witnesses. Instead they had taken their frustrations out on her with a beating that had lasted several minutes. The last thing she had heard from the Doctor was that a specialist was coming who dealt with cases like hers after he had made sure that she wasn’t going to die of her injuries.

Anyone else thinking of the lobotomy scene from "Suckerpunch"? If that does happen, I would not want to be an agent of ANY of the US intelligence agencies that gets caught by their German counterparts. There are protocols for this sort of thing, especially when the captured agent has been caught doing sweet FA. This is in violation of those and could trigger an especially violent war 'in the shadows'. If the CIA has any sense whatsoever, THEY will bust Asia out themselves, escort her back to Europe (apologise for the barbarism of the FBI) and suggest that she stay the f@#% away from North America. Especially since the FBI intercepted Nancy on Canadian soil.

 

[jlckansas]

Does Jack have any connections with the Irish mob in Boston? I know IOTL his dad did, would be interesting what he could get done if Kat asked him. Seems like a tame judge, a writ of habeas corpus, and some local cops might going there for the "inmate" could make it interesting.