Stuart King of Spain

I was going through the archives of the Portuguese Ministry of Foreign Affairs from the Torre do Tombo archives and they have records, including correspondences and letters of ambassadors, envoys, kings etc that are all quite fascinating and are combined into volumes.

One thing that I ran across that I found interesting was that Infanta Maria Theresa of Spain was offered as a bride to Charles II of England as part of a way to shore up peace between England and Spain after the Anglo-Spanish War. Marriage negotiations between between France and Spain as part of the peace between those two countries dragged and it seemed that England might be a better option as a marriage to Charles II would not require such a large dowry, and also they wanted to prevent the marriage of Charles II to Catherine of Bragança.

Meanwhile, Cardinal Mazarin had proposed a marriage between Louis XIV and Catherine of Bragança. The negotiations included a dowry of 2 million cruzados, and Tangier or Mazagan. Mazarin demanded both Tangier and Mazagan along with the revenues of the vacant bishopric of Évora for himself (some 400,000 cruzados). In the end, the Portuguese negotiators thought they would get a better deal from the English, and had to part with 2 million cruzados as a dowry in addition to Tangier and Bombay.

Now my question is what if Charles II of England married Maria Theresa and Louis XIV married Catherine of Bragança or some other princess?

Firstly it would have some important effects, such as no War of the Devolution, but I assume that Louis XIV being Louis would still attempt to enlarge his domains. After that, Charles II of Spain still dies without an heir, what would happen if Charles II of England and Scotland has a son? From what I could see there were no pre-conditions about Maria Theresa having to renounce her rights to the Spanish throne? If they only have one living son, would he become ruler of the Spanish domains along with the British Isles? I imagine that France would certainly challenge this, as would Austria?

With Charles II having an heir I imagine the Glorious Revolution might be butterflied away, but we might see kings of England whom remain crypto-Catholics. Also, Parliament would be weakened to more of an advisory body, with the King still supreme over parliament. Or eventually have a situation akin to Saxony where the Royal Family remains Catholic, but the Church of England remains the state church.

If Charles II has two children, one might claim the English/Scottish throne, while another claims the Spanish domains in their entirety. The Elder could remain in England and remain Catholic, and the Younger could become King of Spain. However, Spain and its Empire might prove to be such an enticing prize, would the English mercantile classes acquiesce to having a Union of Crowns ruled from London where the King becomes Catholic? In return, the English get free trade with Spain and her Empire.

Another scenario might be a partition of Spain's Domains, though this would become unpopular among the Spanish Court. If England agrees to cede Spanish territory, such as Naples and Milan to the Austria Habsburgs. France might demand Milan and Lorraine possibly. The Spanish Netherlands is also problematic as England might want to hold it, the Dutch Republic might be unhappy with that arrangement as they were still distrustful of England, France too would not be happy, so giving it to Austria might be accepted by all.

If Louis XIV is without legitimate heirs, and Catherine of Bragança lives to 1705 having several miscarriages, it would be problematic for him to get an annulment. That being said, the Duc d'Orleans' son Philippe would would marry a foreign princess and the result would be that after Louis XIV died, his grandnephew would inherit the French throne. France would not have a legitimate claim to the throne of Spain, but could France and England agree to partition the Spanish domains between themselves? The Bourbons and Stuarts had close relations and I could envision a scenario where Austria, the Dutch Republic, Spain and Prussia fight against an Anglo-French alliance.

I am curious to get the thoughts of others.
 
Instead of having it happen re all those non-marriages and non-offspring. Perhaps a more direct way for it to have occured would have been for James Stuart (AKA the Old Pretender) to have had his his mother Mary of Modena put his name in the running (and scouted around for Continental supporter) after Charles II of Spain (the last Hapsburg king) died and the War of the Spanish Succession was on starting in 1700. At that point, it was anyone's guess re which dynasty and monarch would occupy the vacant throne. Had this happened; perhaps England would have not been so keen on wrangling Gibraltar from the Spanish but it likely would have permanently pitted the Protestant Stuarts and whoever succeeded them against the Catholic Continent from this point onward. It may also have somehow butterflied the Hanovers being Queen Anne's successors.
 
Instead of having it happen re all those non-marriages and non-offspring. Perhaps a more direct way for it to have occured would have been for James Stuart (AKA the Old Pretender) to have had his his mother Mary of Modena put his name in the running (and scouted around for Continental supporter) after Charles II of Spain (the last Hapsburg king) died and the War of the Spanish Succession was on starting in 1700. At that point, it was anyone's guess re which dynasty and monarch would occupy the vacant throne. Had this happened; perhaps England would have not been so keen on wrangling Gibraltar from the Spanish but it likely would have permanently pitted the Protestant Stuarts and whoever succeeded them against the Catholic Continent from this point onward. It may also have somehow butterflied the Hanovers being Queen Anne's successors.

I was just thinking of having it the way I said because Charles II of England's son could put forth a legitimate claim as senior claimant to the Spanish throne based on the laws of succession (in Castile anyway). Louis XIV of France has more of a claim to the throne by his mother as he was a direct descendant of Philip III (his maternal grandfather). After him, Victor Amadeus II, Duke of Savoy is the most senior claimant, through Catalina Micaela, daughter of Philip II and Elisabeth of Valois.
 
I would love to see the Estuarte dynasty fighting the Boãorbo. But if Charles II of England marry in 1652, any son of Maria Theresa would be in his forties when his spanish uncle make his will. In order to keep his throne, Charles surely made sure his sons are protestants. I do not see Carlos II elect a protestant - even a nominal one - as his heir. Single-way to hell, for sure.
 
I would love to see the Estuarte dynasty fighting the Boãorbo. But if Charles II of England marry in 1652, any son of Maria Theresa would be in his forties when his spanish uncle make his will. In order to keep his throne, Charles surely made sure his sons are protestants. I do not see Carlos II elect a protestant - even a nominal one - as his heir. Single-way to hell, for sure.

That was one of the issues I was seeing, it was clear that Charles II of England was secretly Catholic, but chose not to publicly profess his faith, and did in fact convert to Catholicism towards the end of his life. Just as Henri IV of France converted to Catholicism to accept the French throne, I could see Charles II's son or grandson doing the same. If Charles II has a son whom already has young heirs, he might designate one as heir in England and another in Spain.

The main issue is how would the alliances play out in Europe. The Catholic powers might say that the House of Stuart had waived its rights to the throne due to its Anglican faith. On the other hand, the next-in-line closest heir is Louis XIV, and Austria would not want a Franco-Spanish Union.

Carlos II appealed to Pope Innocent XII for counsel in the matter, and he recommended leaving the throne to the Duke d'Anjou, mainly because the Protestant Powers were in favour of the Archduke Charles. The other issue is with Louis XIV having no legitimate children, if his nephew the Duke d'Orleans has only one son as IOTL, the Pope might be in favour of Archduke Charles.

The other issue that one has to remember is that all of Europe, with the exception of Austria and England recognised the Duke of Anjou as King of Spain in 1700. William III only waited because Louis XIV recognised James III as King of England and Scotland, if the Glorious Revolution is butterflied away, this might be a non-sequitur for war.
 
Well Austria, France, the Dutch Republic etc. would all have very good reasons to support an alternative candidate or at least prevent the English candidate from getting everything. Under such a scenario even Louis XIV would recognize Austrian and Savoy claims, moreover his mother was also a Spanish Infanta, so this would make a partition even ITTL rather likely`(with a claim of his own for at least a part of it). Perhaps England can get Spain (proper) and most or all Colonies, but the Italian and Low Countries possessions like IOTL (maybe some colonies ITTL too) are likely targets in a war of Succession. IMHO a war of succession would still happen, only with different alliances.
 
Yes I can see a war as well, but I am wondering what the potential alliances would be. I wonder if the Dutch Republic would support a Stuart on the Spanish throne and ruling over the Spanish Netherlands.

The Spanish court wanted to keep the inheritance intact and for that reason supported Philip of Anjou inheriting the entire Empire. From what was proposed, both the French nor Habsburg candidates were junior male members of their respective houses. Vienna was aware that none of the powers wanted a rebirth of Charles V Empire, and Louis XIV was cognisant that no one would accept a Franco-Spanish union. So I am starting to think a personal union between Spain, England, and Scotland would be off the table.
 
To put a completely different spin on this, would it be possible for one of the Fitz-James Stuarts (bastard descendants of James II), in their capacity as Dukes of Alba, to marry a Spanish lady who's way down in the line of succession and then stumble into the throne when everyone ahead of her dies?

There'll still around, so there's a several hundred year window for something to happen.
 
To put a completely different spin on this, would it be possible for one of the Fitz-James Stuarts (bastard descendants of James II), in their capacity as Dukes of Alba, to marry a Spanish lady who's way down in the line of succession and then stumble into the throne when everyone ahead of her dies?

There'll still around, so there's a several hundred year window for something to happen.

The FitzJames' transplant in Spain was due to 1. Glorious Revolution 2. Spanish Succession War. If the two are butterflied away, I do not see them going to Spain. Furthermore, there is no Spanish lady in the line of succession. The Habsburgs, as the other dynasties of the time, did not marry into their own nobility, but in foreign royal families.

That was one of the issues I was seeing, it was clear that Charles II of England was secretly Catholic, but chose not to publicly profess his faith, and did in fact convert to Catholicism towards the end of his life. Just as Henri IV of France converted to Catholicism to accept the French throne, I could see Charles II's son or grandson doing the same. If Charles II has a son whom already has young heirs, he might designate one as heir in England and another in Spain.

The main issue is how would the alliances play out in Europe. The Catholic powers might say that the House of Stuart had waived its rights to the throne due to its Anglican faith. On the other hand, the next-in-line closest heir is Louis XIV, and Austria would not want a Franco-Spanish Union.

Carlos II appealed to Pope Innocent XII for counsel in the matter, and he recommended leaving the throne to the Duke d'Anjou, mainly because the Protestant Powers were in favour of the Archduke Charles. The other issue is with Louis XIV having no legitimate children, if his nephew the Duke d'Orleans has only one son as IOTL, the Pope might be in favour of Archduke Charles.

The other issue that one has to remember is that all of Europe, with the exception of Austria and England recognised the Duke of Anjou as King of Spain in 1700. William III only waited because Louis XIV recognised James III as King of England and Scotland, if the Glorious Revolution is butterflied away, this might be a non-sequitur for war.

I second this, the Pope would surely back a second son of a catholic monarch.

As you say, this TL brings a problem of succession in the French Royal family. If Louis XIV has no children, his brother Philippe is heir. So the second marriage of Philippe in 1671 is tantamount. However, suitable princesses are scarce at the time
- Wilhelmine Ernestine of Denmark (1650-1706)
- Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate (1652-1722)
- Claudia Felicitas of Austria-Tyrol (1653-1676)
- Maria Anna Josepha of Austria (1654-1689

Of these ones, only the Wittelsbach, as in OTL, would likely go along with Louis' plans. So, I think he would end up with only one son, the OTL Régent. As there are only two princes in the House of Condé as "spares", the French royal house is a very weak position, probably getting Louis even more reason to legitimize his sons by Montespan. As he was very fond of them, he may even ask an Italian throne for the eldest as a condition for a smooth Spanish succession.
 
The FitzJames' transplant in Spain was due to 1. Glorious Revolution 2. Spanish Succession War. If the two are butterflied away, I do not see them going to Spain. Furthermore, there is no Spanish lady in the line of succession. The Habsburgs, as the other dynasties of the time, did not marry into their own nobility, but in foreign royal families.



I second this, the Pope would surely back a second son of a catholic monarch.

As you say, this TL brings a problem of succession in the French Royal family. If Louis XIV has no children, his brother Philippe is heir. So the second marriage of Philippe in 1671 is tantamount. However, suitable princesses are scarce at the time
- Wilhelmine Ernestine of Denmark (1650-1706)
- Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate (1652-1722)
- Claudia Felicitas of Austria-Tyrol (1653-1676)
- Maria Anna Josepha of Austria (1654-1689

Of these ones, only the Wittelsbach, as in OTL, would likely go along with Louis' plans. So, I think he would end up with only one son, the OTL Régent. As there are only two princes in the House of Condé as "spares", the French royal house is a very weak position, probably getting Louis even more reason to legitimize his sons by Montespan. As he was very fond of them, he may even ask an Italian throne for the eldest as a condition for a smooth Spanish succession.

Not necessarily. The duc de Valois IIRC died due to the incompetency of his doctors (at least his mother always blamed them - but she was generally pretty anti-doctor in general).

As to the other candidates, Vilhelmina is Protestant, and lame, so I don't see the French court being bribed so easily wjth a stupendous dowry as the Elector Palatine. The two Austrian archduchesses could make for half-decent matches, simply let the Empress live longer, that way, Klaudia isn't needed in Vienna. Or let the Elector Palatine's son already be married when the Hereditary Prince of Brandenburg dies, plus throw in a reason for why France and the Habsburgs want to cozy up long enough for the marriage to go through and bam!

Granted, Klaudia was regarded as a half-French spy during her consortship OTL (and only had daughters), whilst Maria Anna had only two stillborn sons by her syphilitic husband. Neither brings a claim to the Spanish throne, but Klaudia is heiress (?) to Further Austria, so we could see France pulling a similar stunt to OTL's War of the Palatine Succession.
 
For one of my other timelines, I was thinking of the following, I'd appreciate any feedback.

Charles II of England married Maria Theresa - they have two surviving children. Charles II pursues a foreign policy aligned to that of France. The reason being that both powers are hostile to the Dutch Republic. The Dutch are seen as commercial rivals of the English, so this policy would have some sort of backing in parliament. Charles II never gets to become a full-fledged Catholic until he is on his deathbed. The son Charles ascends the throne in 1685, marries either a daughter of the Duke d'Orleans or perhaps a Portuguese Infanta. If there is an uproar over a Catholic Princess, I imagine marrying a Lutheran from a minor German ruling house would be in the cards. One option is if Charles III has a sister (Mary) whom is married off to the Duke of Chartres, the future Philippe VII of France around 1692. They have several children including two sons, whom are children at the time. One option is that England and France decide to put forward Princess Mary, Duchess of Orleans as a legitimate candidate to the English throne with one son inheriting the French throne, the other the Spanish. France of course wants some territorial compensation in the form of provinces of the Spanish Netherlands and perhaps England and France decide to partition the Spanish Netherlands between the two.

Charles II of Spain dies in 1701, upon the advice of the pope he bequeathed his entire empire to Archduke Charles of Austria. The Dutch Republic backs the Austrian candidate, and they persuade Brandenburg, Savoy, Denmark to join and France and England might get Sweden. Portugal attempts to remain neutral, but is pressured by England and France granted some lands in South America. Militarily, how long would such a war last? Also, what could the outcome be? Presumably, Austria still takes control of Milan. The Dutch were still a strong naval power, but would they be able to withstand a combined England/France/Spain alliance, or lose some overseas possessions?
 
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Not necessarily. The duc de Valois IIRC died due to the incompetency of his doctors (at least his mother always blamed them - but she was generally pretty anti-doctor in general).

As to the other candidates, Vilhelmina is Protestant, and lame, so I don't see the French court being bribed so easily wjth a stupendous dowry as the Elector Palatine. The two Austrian archduchesses could make for half-decent matches, simply let the Empress live longer, that way, Klaudia isn't needed in Vienna. Or let the Elector Palatine's son already be married when the Hereditary Prince of Brandenburg dies, plus throw in a reason for why France and the Habsburgs want to cozy up long enough for the marriage to go through and bam!

Granted, Klaudia was regarded as a half-French spy during her consortship OTL (and only had daughters), whilst Maria Anna had only two stillborn sons by her syphilitic husband. Neither brings a claim to the Spanish throne, but Klaudia is heiress (?) to Further Austria, so we could see France pulling a similar stunt to OTL's War of the Palatine Succession.

Infants death can always be butterflied away, sure, personally I tend to maintain a high rate of infantile death (what an horrible thing to say). Anyways, one thing is certain : the OTL Régent would be named Louis, not Philippe, in order to emphasize his place as heir presumptive.

One butterfly I would like to collect would be a prince Eugène in french service. As Catarina seems more fun than Maria Teresa, Louis XIV's love life may be a little different, though he would have many mistresses. No love triangle Henrietta-Louix XIV-Louise de la Vallirère means no disgrace for Olimpia Mancini and no lasting ill-will towards her children. It also means the King's illegitimate children are a different batch from OTL.
 
The sad thing is that with no Catherine of Bragança the English never develop their predilection for tea. Plus, who's to say that Catherine WILL miscarry/stillbirth here, and Maria Teresa WILL give Charles II issue?

Catherine had 3 documented pregnancies that I can find - in 1666, 1668 and 1669. Whilst Maria Teresa had 6 with her double first cousin (so in other words, the genetic equivalent of her half-brother). Maybe Catherine only has girls survive? And I'm sure that while Maria Teresa might be considered dull by the English court, and Papist, and might resent being married to a pseudo-heretic, she might do somewhat better/worse married to Old Rowley. Louis XIV had 3 official maitresse-en-titres, while Charles II starting with Lucy Walter in 1649 and ending with Louise de la Kérouaille, had at least 7. The hyperpious Maria Teresa might not handle it so well, since while Louis was as discreet as possible, Charles actually presented Lady Castlemaine to his wife when receiving her. Can you imagine the insult that the Spanish court would take at that?
 
To put a completely different spin on this, would it be possible for one of the Fitz-James Stuarts (bastard descendants of James II), in their capacity as Dukes of Alba, to marry a Spanish lady who's way down in the line of succession and then stumble into the throne when everyone ahead of her dies?

There'll still around, so there's a several hundred year window for something to happen.

Keep in mind, the more daughters born to Charles II and Maria Theresa, the more "ladies" there are in the Spanish succession.
 
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