Stuart-Habsburg Matches

The Stuart kings of England certainly had a...well, I don't know if obsession is the right term...but an interest in marrying their house to the Habsburgs.

A Spanish marriage for Henry Frederick, Prince of Wales, Charles's elder brother who had died in 1612, had been proposed by his mother Anne of Denmark. After his death she supported the idea of a Spanish marriage for her daughter Elizabeth, but in 1613 Elizabeth married a prominent Protestant prince. For her second son Charles, there were candidate marriages mooted from Savoy and Tuscany, as well as Spain and France.

The idea was resurrected by James I for Elizabeth's eldest son - Hereditary Prince Friedrich Heinrich of the Palatinate - to marry a daughter of the Spanish king; later resurrected as a plan to marry Karl I to Maria Leopoldina of Austria-Tyrol. Charles I was aghast when his eldest daughter, Mary, was married to the prince of Orange (since said prince had previously been betrothed to her younger sister, Elizabeth) since he had entertained hopes of marrying her to Baltasar Carlos. And then again Charles II was offered a marriage with the dowager Empress (Eleonora Gonzaga) or with Caterina Farnese to dissuade him from marrying Catherine of Braganza. Charles' counter was that he marry Margarita Teresa (with succession rights intact) whilst Minette now marry her jilted bridegroom, Leopold I. Unsurprisingly, this idea foundered too.

Now what if one of these marriages (you can decide which one of these unlikely matches might be the most likely) to go through. How might Europe fare if the caroussel of royal marriages were to go on an alternate spin to what it had?
 
I know Constantine's got Charles III married to Leopold I's daughter in AeD, and OTL James II's married to Leopold's OTL 2nd wife.

And yes, this is me bumping this.
 
James to Claudia was not out of the left field, as were it not for Margaret-Teresa untimely death, she was considered a possible bride.
In fact, this match is No.2 in my list of "most realistic ones".

No.1 is another "what if some Austrian Empress lives longer" and it is Karl of Palatinate to Maria Leopoldina of Tyrol. While the family life will still suffer, at least Karl won't cheat as blatantly on more high-born wife.

Caterina Farnese (became nun in OTL) would have made a very interesting Queen of England, No.3 and criminally unused PoD. She was proposed as a bride for Louis XIV at some point as well.
 
James to Claudia was not out of the left field, as were it not for Margaret-Teresa untimely death, she was considered a possible bride.
In fact, this match is No.2 in my list of "most realistic ones".

No.1 is another "what if some Austrian Empress lives longer" and it is Karl of Palatinate to Maria Leopoldina of Tyrol. While the family life will still suffer, at least Karl won't cheat as blatantly on more high-born wife.

Caterina Farnese (became nun in OTL) would have made a very interesting Queen of England, No.3 and criminally unused PoD. She was proposed as a bride for Louis XIV at some point as well.

I like the idea of James II and Claudia Felicitas. You just have to butterfly away the death of Margaret-Teresa for just a few more years (Leopold can still marry Eleonore-Magdalena of Neuberg at some point). Mary of Modena was treated rather shabbily by her stepdaughters (Mary and particularly Anne were two of the primary instigators of the fake warming pan theory with James Edward) and by William III (who refused to cough up Mary of Modena's dowry/fortune owed despite having ZERO claim to it). Could they do the same to a Hapsburg? And considering it is very likely that Louis XIV will still be considerate to James II if the "Glorious Revolution" still happened, on the other side James II's wife is the cousin of the Emperor (in OTL Leopold was William's ally). Things could get very interesting then.
 
The Stuart kings of England certainly had a...well, I don't know if obsession is the right term...but an interest in marrying their house to the Habsburgs.



The idea was resurrected by James I for Elizabeth's eldest son - Hereditary Prince Friedrich Heinrich of the Palatinate - to marry a daughter of the Spanish king; later resurrected as a plan to marry Karl I to Maria Leopoldina of Austria-Tyrol. Charles I was aghast when his eldest daughter, Mary, was married to the prince of Orange (since said prince had previously been betrothed to her younger sister, Elizabeth) since he had entertained hopes of marrying her to Baltasar Carlos. And then again Charles II was offered a marriage with the dowager Empress (Eleonora Gonzaga) or with Caterina Farnese to dissuade him from marrying Catherine of Braganza. Charles' counter was that he marry Margarita Teresa (with succession rights intact) whilst Minette now marry her jilted bridegroom, Leopold I. Unsurprisingly, this idea foundered too.

Now what if one of these marriages (you can decide which one of these unlikely matches might be the most likely) to go through. How might Europe fare if the caroussel of royal marriages were to go on an alternate spin to what it had?

I know Constantine's got Charles III married to Leopold I's daughter in AeD, and OTL James II's married to Leopold's OTL 2nd wife.

And yes, this is me bumping this.

As something right up my alley:D. A few things I must point out. It was actually SPAIN that offered Margarita Teresa to Charles II, not the other way around. It was a last-ditch effort to stop England from allying with Portugal, at least according Margarita's Spanish Wikipedia page. I'm not exactly sure why the negotiations floundered, but I'd guess it had something to do with Margarita's age (she would have been 10/11 during the negotiations) and Spain's financial status: Charles needed a large dowry and Portugal could offer one, while Spain was already having trouble paying Maria Theresa's dowry to France. As for Henriette-Anne marrying Leopold I, I'm unsure about that one. I believe that she was already married to the Duc d'Orleans when Margarita was offered.

Personally I find the idea of Margarita marrying Charles II fascinating and enthralling. If she produced a surviving son or two (a possibility since she was marrying a distant cousin rather than her uncle) we would see a threeway war between England, France and Austria over the Spanish Monarchy, with the other nations caught in the middle. Now THAT would be epic.

But in my opinion the most likely marriage would be that of James, Duke of York and Claudia Felicitas of Further Austria. It was already in the works when Margarita died and the Emperor snatched up his cousin. If the Empress had lived a few more years/months then we would have seen the first Habsburg Queen of England, Scotland and Ireland.

Honestly though, the rest are pretty much out of left field improbable, except for MAYBE Charles I and Marianna, and even that one would be pretty difficult.
 
I like the idea of James II and Claudia Felicitas. You just have to butterfly away the death of Margaret-Teresa for just a few more years (Leopold can still marry Eleonore-Magdalena of Neuberg at some point). Mary of Modena was treated rather shabbily by her stepdaughters (Mary and particularly Anne were two of the primary instigators of the fake warming pan theory with James Edward) and by William III (who refused to cough up Mary of Modena's dowry/fortune owed despite having ZERO claim to it). Could they do the same to a Hapsburg? And considering it is very likely that Louis XIV will still be considerate to James II if the "Glorious Revolution" still happened, on the other side James II's wife is the cousin of the Emperor (in OTL Leopold was William's ally). Things could get very interesting then.

It is an interesting scenario isn't it. I think the real question what affects would a Habsburg Queen have on James II's reign and possible deposition. Claudia was only 22 when she died but had already produced 2 children, so we could see a surviving son born during Charles II's reign. Now there's no way of knowing if this son would remain Anglican or convert to Catholicism, but at the very least there would be no warming-pan theory to deal with, lessening some of the commoner opposition.

However, Claudia was only the Emperor's cousin, not his sister. Sure Leopold would no doubt be offended if she was mistreated but I doubt he would do much. However, at the very least I'll bet that William III would repay her dowry, if only to keep the Emperor happy. But I might be wrong, as I believe that Claudia did grow up in Vienna, so she might have already been close to the Emperor before her OTL marriage. If so, then we could see Leopold I publicly support his cousin-in-law, discouraging William of Orange from invading. I can't see William wanting to piss off both France and Austria at the same time, especially if Leopold believes that James can be brought around to support the Habsburgs in claiming the Spanish throne after Carlos II's death.
 
It is an interesting scenario isn't it. I think the real question what affects would a Habsburg Queen have on James II's reign and possible deposition. Claudia was only 22 when she died but had already produced 2 children, so we could see a surviving son born during Charles II's reign. Now there's no way of knowing if this son would remain Anglican or convert to Catholicism, but at the very least there would be no warming-pan theory to deal with, lessening some of the commoner opposition.

However, Claudia was only the Emperor's cousin, not his sister. Sure Leopold would no doubt be offended if she was mistreated but I doubt he would do much. However, at the very least I'll bet that William III would repay her dowry, if only to keep the Emperor happy. But I might be wrong, as I believe that Claudia did grow up in Vienna, so she might have already been close to the Emperor before her OTL marriage. If so, then we could see Leopold I publicly support his cousin-in-law, discouraging William of Orange from invading. I can't see William wanting to piss off both France and Austria at the same time, especially if Leopold believes that James can be brought around to support the Habsburgs in claiming the Spanish throne after Carlos II's death.

A possible perverted version. We know that Claudia suffered from tuberculosis - butterflied by 70% in A et D for plot reasons. What if she dies after a few years in British climate BUT her husband contacts the disease from her and dies as well?
 
As something right up my alley:D. A few things I must point out. It was actually SPAIN that offered Margarita Teresa to Charles II, not the other way around. It was a last-ditch effort to stop England from allying with Portugal, at least according Margarita's Spanish Wikipedia page. I'm not exactly sure why the negotiations floundered, but I'd guess it had something to do with Margarita's age (she would have been 10/11 during the negotiations) and Spain's financial status: Charles needed a large dowry and Portugal could offer one, while Spain was already having trouble paying Maria Theresa's dowry to France. As for Henriette-Anne marrying Leopold I, I'm unsure about that one. I believe that she was already married to the Duc d'Orleans when Margarita was offered.

Sorry, my bad, I understood it as Charles making the suit for Margarita's hand, after the Spanish had offered him two Italian brides - one of which D. Felipe had promised to adopt and to come with the dowry of an infanta. However, Charles' comment as to the dowager empress (Eleonora Gonzaga) was "poor in money, rich in years".

Minette's marriage to Monsieur occured shortly after this marriage proposal fell through, not sure if they were in negotiations with the French already, or if it was simply a pipe dream (the French match). Although, Empress Henriëtte Anna has a nice (and interesting) ring to it. Much the same as it would've if she'd become grand duchess of Tuscany, duchess of Savoy or duchess of Parma. One can only think how much different her marriage would be. Especially since Leopold and Margarita's was extremely close - as opposed to Minette and Monsieur.
 
Guys, how do you like the idea of such TL?
Margarita Teresa lives for a few more years, freeing Claudia Felicitas to become the Duchess of York in 1673.
However, she's sick with tuberculosis by this time and dies in British climate circa 1675...dragging Queen Catherine in grave with her (her brother died of tuberculosis, so she shall be susceptible to the disease). In 1676 both Duke of York and the King are poor disconsolate widowers... urged to remarry ASAP.
So... who do you see as the Queen of England and the Duchess of York in this scenario?
I'm partial to Ulrika-Eleonora of Denmark becoming Queen of England. As for Duchess of York (third one) the candidates range from Mary of Modena (if not taken by this point) to Maria-Sophia of Neuburg, OTL Queen of Portugal.
 
Guys, how do you like the idea of such TL?
Margarita Teresa lives for a few more years, freeing Claudia Felicitas to become the Duchess of York in 1673.
However, she's sick with tuberculosis by this time and dies in British climate circa 1675...dragging Queen Catherine in grave with her (her brother died of tuberculosis, so she shall be susceptible to the disease). In 1676 both Duke of York and the King are poor disconsolate widowers... urged to remarry ASAP.
So... who do you see as the Queen of England and the Duchess of York in this scenario?
I'm partial to Ulrika-Eleonora of Denmark becoming Queen of England. As for Duchess of York (third one) the candidates range from Mary of Modena (if not taken by this point) to Maria-Sophia of Neuburg, OTL Queen of Portugal.

I like the Neuburg lady. Think of how interesting England would get if she punches out babies like a bunny (as the family did OTL, one of the popes even going so far as to quip that "they need only hang his [their husband]'s britches on the end of the bed to have a child").
 
So just a bump as I found out that the reason that Maria Sophia of Neuburg didn't make it to London was because James found her unattractive. Could we perhaps swap her out with one of her more attractive sisters? Admittedly, though, the English were nice enough to give her a boat ride to Portugal, but from what I understand she didn't exactly like the English due to this. Hell hath no fury... (no offense to the ladies on the board)
 
So just a bump as I found out that the reason that Maria Sophia of Neuburg didn't make it to London was because James found her unattractive. Could we perhaps swap her out with one of her more attractive sisters? Admittedly, though, the English were nice enough to give her a boat ride to Portugal, but from what I understand she didn't exactly like the English due to this. Hell hath no fury... (no offense to the ladies on the board)
Maria Sophia of Neuburg was too young in 1673 (1676 is another thing), so I'd like to see a source of this information.
 
It was in a Spanish article on her sister, Maria Anna, IIRC. Does anyone know about why Klaudia Felizitas was denied burial in the Kaisersgruft? I read somewhere that due to her mother's Medicean ancestry, Klaudia was not especially welcome in Vienna; and she was later laid to rest at her mother's side in the Dominikanerkirche.
 
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Winter Queen as Legit Queen of Bohemia

A curious thought popped into my head today, what if Elizabeth Stuart gets married to an Austrian archduke? Like Archduke Matthias/Maximilian? Or becomes Felipe III's second wife. Then Queen James gets his Habsburg match and can if need be, marry his son(s) off to suitably Protestant princesses instead?
 
A curious thought popped into my head today, what if Elizabeth Stuart gets married to an Austrian archduke? Like Archduke Matthias/Maximilian? Or becomes Felipe III's second wife. Then Queen James gets his Habsburg match and can if need be, marry his son(s) off to suitably Protestant princesses instead?

It's an interesting hypothetical, but it might require the survival of Henry Frederick, since then between her marriage and Charles I's own first kid, the heiress presumptive to the British crown is also the Queen of Spain or Holy Roman Empress.

Of course, there might be something similar to Mary I's marriage contract stipulating what Mr. Elizabeth II Hapsburg may and may not do, but I can't see such a move being popular in England (esp. if it were to become a small Protestant province of a very large Catholic empire)
 
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