A wath if,if Dutch politicians took the defence of its colonies more seroius.
No major efect on other things...
Dutch Parliament accept a fleetplan on 26 October after much debate and never seen oposition thoughout the nation. A pettitionement of more than 1 milion paragraphs of civilians who where againt this investments in a navy while the big nations are negotiating for a reduction of their fleets and prefent a further arms race. That the Dutch royal navy was equipt with complete obsolete armed cruisers and coastal defence ships from the turn of the century. And the navy operated in an theatre larger than europe was a detail that was lost by the enthousiast pacifists.
The fleet law was accepted with 52 angainst 48, even within political parties ther was resistance.
The law consist in a building program of aproximately 5 years.
4 light cruisers.
20 submarines
24 destroyers
6 minelayers
6 minesweepers
auxilary ships
72 Seaplanes
extensive expasion of the base Tandjong Priok to handle surfaceships, submarines and planes, north of island Java.
http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/
The 4 cruisers were enlarged Java class cruisers, the were simialr as OTL ''de Ruyter'' only with 8 x 15 cm guns, as normal for thes type of ships.
Together with the ''Java'' and ''Sumatra'' they would form two cruiser squadrons.
Destroyers were of the OTL Admiral class, similar as Royal Navy Amzon class.
Secretary of finance Mr Coleijn was one of the major supporters of this fleet plan. This proved to be esential in later years when he even become prime minister. His normal policy was of budget cuts and refuse of spending.
The long term effect of this was that the navy contiued to excist instead of beiing broken down as in OTL. This fleet plan also obligth next cabinets to maintain modernise and even expand the navy. It would also give the DUtch gouverment a better position in future crises situation in where the gouverment was forced to give up his neutrality and to join alies, even this was not seen by most people at that time. Especialy not the pacifist or socialists.
Submarines were build in what turned out in 4 classes and whitin 6 years. Every class an improved version of the predecesing.
class1=O9 OTL, double calibre torpedo
class2=O12 OTL, single calbre torpedo
class3=KIV OTL, patrly welded hull.
By 1928 there was a small but modern fleet cruising the water of the Dutch East indies.
Since the Navy was so ''generous'' treated the Army wanted a shear as well. It was granted in the form of a royal Air force and some planes and a defense line along the river Ijssel, and Waal. Consisting of concrete bukers for shelter, mg post and gun positions. The guns came of the scraped armored cruisers and coastal defense ships, it could not to be too expesive.
In 1930, again after much debate, was desided that the ''Java'' and ''Sumatra'' needed replacement by larger and modern units. This would beenlarged ''de Ruyter'' like OTL ''Eendracht''.
It would also give a boost to the ship building industrie who sufferd hard from the economic depression.
As Japan acted more and more agressive during thise years in China and the increase in dictatures around Europe there was as well an extensive modernisation and expansion program acepted.
12 more destroyers were ordered '' otl Callenburg class'' , 2 large destroyers or flotila leaders, otl ''Tromp class'' and 18 more submarines OTL O19 class which would be equiped with full working snorting device as was used in prevous boats but on a smaller scale.
As aircover would 80 Fokker T-V bomber-aircruiser be used and later perhaps Fokker G1.
The Do-Wall would replaced by Do-24 seaplanes
Due to an excisting of a seriuos fleet in this TL it makes investments in the navy, army and airforce, despite budget cuts and penny wise policy, more consequent and a few years ahead of OTL. It makes the building of an ''Eendracht class'' come 8 years earlier as OTL. The construction of these ships could give evidence that gouverment support to the national industry pays it self back. By this it is more likely that the Dutch gouverment support the Aviation industie as well earlier. There for the Fokker TV bomber would appeare in 1933 in stead of 1936. And a sucsesor the G1 also earlier and this plane more as a long ranhe fighter/bomber for the far East than as a fighter for the Home land. It is as well more likely Fokker build its all meatal passanger plane more earlier than as planed in OTL The licence building of the Dornier Do24 would be more faster because the first class of Dornier ''wall'' seaplanes would completed, instead of OTL the order was halved and caused bancrupty of the manufacturer. (Aviolanda) it had to restart and educate his work force again in the thirties for the order of the Do24.
(Eendracht) as designed in 1937 OTL, these ships where on the slipways under construction in OTL 1940]
Stronger Dutch Navy in 1940
- Thread starter Parma
- Start date
Markus
Banned
Parma,
generally speaking I like your plan. But getting 24 DDs in just five years with no war in sight and than adding another 12 is quite a challange. Especially with Z 1 -8 still being useful.
By the way, great website, bookmarked it!
Here is my take:
With the government and Parliament almost in a draw a “compromise plan” is being introduced by some influential MPs from the opposition and the governing parties.
This to be build in ten years, after that the levels are to be held.
Submarines: The number is cut by 50%! WW1 has seen the sub quickly and utterly being defeated once a convoy system was introduced. Since one can assume that a convoy of Japanese troopships is much better protected than some british merchants, subs are useless for that purpose. So, the Navy gets 18. Six medium range boats for the home waters and 12 long range boats to attack Japanese merchants on the way from and to Japan. If Japan introduces a convoy system the overall efficiency of shipping decreases because ships have to wait for the next convoy or they travel alone and are easy prey for subs.
Destroyers: Some of the older ones are still OK, so make it 16 tin cans. The first eight are basically copies of the british V/W-class. Construction dates from 1922 to 1928. The next are the Admirals from OTL.
Cruisers: Java and Sumatra like in OTL, Celebes is stopped. In the second half of the 20´s, but before the Great Depression hits she and Borneo are being ordered as “improved” County class heavy cruisers with 12,000 instead of 10,000 ton standard load. The extra weight is going into armour, because the Dutch are no believers in “eggshells armed with sledgehammers”.
This and some mine layers, minesweepers, sloops and multi purpose bombes like the butt-ugly Fokker TIVA floatplane is the Royal Dutch Navy in 1936. The year Japan renounces the WNT and requires the Netherlands to react.
First two more CAs are looked into, but two 14,000tonners are considered not affordable. But an 8inch and a 6inch gun have the same practical range, the 6inch shell is powerful enough to destroy a CAs superstructure like the gun turrets and the rangefinder and it has a rate of fire of 8 to 10 shells per minute as opposed to 3 to 4 of an 8inch gun. And you can build a perfectly good CL that does not exceed 10,000 tons.
De Ruyter and Tromp are armed with 15 six inch guns in five triple turrets, four twin 75mm Vickers AA-guns and six 40mm twin Bofors. The difference to contemporary American and british cruisers is the missing medium artillery: eight 5 or 4 inch dual purpose guns –as much fire power as two inter-war DDs. Again the saved weight goes into improved protection. The AA is certainly good for a cruiser of that time. And more can be added as the development of pre-war CLs shows.
Destroyers: No flotilla leaders! First and foremost DDs have to be numerous. So enlarged “Admirals” are fine with me, but I think the more advanced Gerard Callenburgh-class will be build anyway, but two years sooner.
Now let´s take a look at the older ships. The DDs have their 12cm anti ship guns replaced with 5inch dual propose guns –of course the Callenburghs get the same guns- and all 16 get four 40mm Bofors guns and some 20mm guns.
Now to the relatively new, but already obsolescent Java-class CLs. Ten guns in single mounts, two super firing guns at the bow and stern and three wing turrets on both sides. Oh dear!
Ok, the two singles at each end are being replaced with modern twin guns in closed turrets and I´d like one triple or two twin guns between the rear mast and the rear funnel. The wing guns with their bad field of fire are being removed altogether to compensate for the increased weight and make room for more 40mm guns. With six twin guns along the ship´s centreline the number of guns increases from at first glance this ten to twelve(+20%), but the weight of a broadside increases from 7 to 12 guns(+70%) and if you take the higher rate of fire into consideration it’s a whooping 170% more shells per minute. Not bad for a previously obsolescent ships, isn´t it?
generally speaking I like your plan. But getting 24 DDs in just five years with no war in sight and than adding another 12 is quite a challange. Especially with Z 1 -8 still being useful.
By the way, great website, bookmarked it!
Here is my take:
With the government and Parliament almost in a draw a “compromise plan” is being introduced by some influential MPs from the opposition and the governing parties.
This to be build in ten years, after that the levels are to be held.
Submarines: The number is cut by 50%! WW1 has seen the sub quickly and utterly being defeated once a convoy system was introduced. Since one can assume that a convoy of Japanese troopships is much better protected than some british merchants, subs are useless for that purpose. So, the Navy gets 18. Six medium range boats for the home waters and 12 long range boats to attack Japanese merchants on the way from and to Japan. If Japan introduces a convoy system the overall efficiency of shipping decreases because ships have to wait for the next convoy or they travel alone and are easy prey for subs.
Destroyers: Some of the older ones are still OK, so make it 16 tin cans. The first eight are basically copies of the british V/W-class. Construction dates from 1922 to 1928. The next are the Admirals from OTL.
Cruisers: Java and Sumatra like in OTL, Celebes is stopped. In the second half of the 20´s, but before the Great Depression hits she and Borneo are being ordered as “improved” County class heavy cruisers with 12,000 instead of 10,000 ton standard load. The extra weight is going into armour, because the Dutch are no believers in “eggshells armed with sledgehammers”.
This and some mine layers, minesweepers, sloops and multi purpose bombes like the butt-ugly Fokker TIVA floatplane is the Royal Dutch Navy in 1936. The year Japan renounces the WNT and requires the Netherlands to react.
First two more CAs are looked into, but two 14,000tonners are considered not affordable. But an 8inch and a 6inch gun have the same practical range, the 6inch shell is powerful enough to destroy a CAs superstructure like the gun turrets and the rangefinder and it has a rate of fire of 8 to 10 shells per minute as opposed to 3 to 4 of an 8inch gun. And you can build a perfectly good CL that does not exceed 10,000 tons.
De Ruyter and Tromp are armed with 15 six inch guns in five triple turrets, four twin 75mm Vickers AA-guns and six 40mm twin Bofors. The difference to contemporary American and british cruisers is the missing medium artillery: eight 5 or 4 inch dual purpose guns –as much fire power as two inter-war DDs. Again the saved weight goes into improved protection. The AA is certainly good for a cruiser of that time. And more can be added as the development of pre-war CLs shows.
Destroyers: No flotilla leaders! First and foremost DDs have to be numerous. So enlarged “Admirals” are fine with me, but I think the more advanced Gerard Callenburgh-class will be build anyway, but two years sooner.
Now let´s take a look at the older ships. The DDs have their 12cm anti ship guns replaced with 5inch dual propose guns –of course the Callenburghs get the same guns- and all 16 get four 40mm Bofors guns and some 20mm guns.
Now to the relatively new, but already obsolescent Java-class CLs. Ten guns in single mounts, two super firing guns at the bow and stern and three wing turrets on both sides. Oh dear!
Ok, the two singles at each end are being replaced with modern twin guns in closed turrets and I´d like one triple or two twin guns between the rear mast and the rear funnel. The wing guns with their bad field of fire are being removed altogether to compensate for the increased weight and make room for more 40mm guns. With six twin guns along the ship´s centreline the number of guns increases from at first glance this ten to twelve(+20%), but the weight of a broadside increases from 7 to 12 guns(+70%) and if you take the higher rate of fire into consideration it’s a whooping 170% more shells per minute. Not bad for a previously obsolescent ships, isn´t it?