Stronger Commonwealth Between the Wars - Plausible ?

Would it be possible to strengthen the Commonwealth in the 1920s and 1930s so that they are much more integrated and unified. The industrial strength of the commonwealth was never really built up like it could have been - that is what I intend to happen. For instance would it be possible for any colonies to be integrated directly into Britain and become part of the political system of the UK ? Maybe Newfoundland having an earlier decision ? If so which colonies would be plausible for that ?

Perhaps crucially would it be possible to placate India at least for a while ? I had heard there were plans to give Indians the same standing as whites in the commonwealth - maybe greater indian immigration to places such as East Africa and more industry there earlier ? As a dominion perhaps ?

Would it also be possible to acheive a more unified commonwealth military - possibly be excluding Churchill and dealing with the Gallipoli memories.

Any help would be greatly appricaited - sorry Im a but clueless :eek:
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
The First World War badly damaged the ties between Britain and the Dominions. Canadian and ANZAC troops suffered enormous casualties and the feeling back home was that incompetent British leadership was largely to blame. There was also the feeling that if the Dominions were going to make such great sacrifices, they should have a greater say in how the war was run.

Symbolically, when Britain declared war on Germany in 1914, it was simply assumed that all the Dominions were at war as well. But in 1919, the Dominions signed the Treaty of Versailles as independent states and, just a few years later, most refused to support Britain when war with Turkey was contemplated.

To have a stronger Dominion between the wars, you need Britain to display much greater concern for Dominion soldiers and give the Dominions a greater say in the running of the war. This, naturally, creates so many butterflies that the course of the war would be very different and the Second World War may not take place.
 
If Britain had indeed granted the Dominions a greater say in the running of the first world war and taken more care with the soldiers - would they be able to keep goodwill after the peace was signed ?

Also if britain stayed out of the first world war altogether could it possibly federalise or unify with any of its colonies in that time period ?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
If Britain had indeed granted the Dominions a greater say in the running of the first world war and taken more care with the soldiers - would they be able to keep goodwill after the peace was signed ?

Also if britain stayed out of the first world war altogether could it possibly federalise or unify with any of its colonies in that time period ?

The good old-fashioned jingosim of the Empire died in the trenches of Flanders and Gallipoli. If the British Empire had avoided the meaningless loss of life, either through better running of the war or staying out of the war altogether, it would have been much better for the social cohesion of the Empire.

Not long before the First World War began, there was a strong push by Joseph Chamberlain and his allies for a system of Imperial Preference, in which tariffs would be raised for imports and exports on trade between the Empire and other nations, while free trade would prevail on trade within the Empire itself. This would have possibly had some beneficial effect on the political and social unity of the Empire, but it could also have led to resentment in some quarters (especially Canada, who would have wanted to trade with the United States without any barriers).
 

BlondieBC

Banned
If Britain had indeed granted the Dominions a greater say in the running of the first world war and taken more care with the soldiers - would they be able to keep goodwill after the peace was signed ?

Also if britain stayed out of the first world war altogether could it possibly federalise or unify with any of its colonies in that time period ?

If you avoid the UK in WW1, it looks much different than OTL. The butterflies are massive and numerous. Basically, you get a CP win with a German MiddleEurope trade zone. And without the shock of WW1 for the UK, why would the UK want to redo a political deal less than a decade old? (Dominion Status 1910)


Now they had a War Cabinet, which was a pretty big step for the English mindset. Exactly what are you proposing as the POD? I don't see how in the mist of a major war, the UK does its most significant structural reform since Cromwell took power. Stranger things have happened, but it looks likely to cause issues. It is roughly like FDR asking for a DoW and a Constitutional convention on December 8th. And I don't see moving up the bringing of Colonials into the war cabinet earlier is a big help.

And to have the settler colonies vote on joining requires reforms in the original dominion process. And what you are wanting seems to be the reverse of what was happening. So you are asking for a 180 political swing. BTW, are you aware South Africa considers its independence year as 1910? The horse is already out of the barn, as they say.

And even if you do some POD well prewar and decide to ignore the butterflies, I don't think the English power structure will like the change. So handwavium, lets assume some type of integrated structure exists towards wars. Lets look at how it happens, and some things the UK will not like.

1) Germany declares martial law, first day of mobilization. IOTL, the PM can move decisively after he gets cabinet approval on a secret, really unofficial treaty. ITTL, he now has to consult Canada, SA, Aussies, and NZ. So now before he can send BEF, you need 5 votes or 5 PM agreeing. It will cause a delay of several days to weeks as the PM explains he negotiate a treaty in secret. The first weeks of the war did not go well in France IOTL, and worse in ITTL. The process will be blamed.

And how did you expect the process to actually work? Details will matter a lot. I think you have had another thread on what it takes to federalize the British Empire (now renamed Indian Empire). There are a host of issues related to having a new Imperial parliament that is superior to the House of Commons. And if you have the House of Commons/Lords become the new imperial parliament, there is a host of issues, just different forms.

2) South Africa will be enthusiastic to join war. But they will bring up other issues the English parliament does not like such as they want control of Botswana. England will just need to cave on it. It is not really a big issue, but it will be an emotional issue for the English. It is the son telling the father how to run the household. Also issues with Rhodesia, but these can be fudged for now.

3) You lack forces to take Tsingtao unless you keep ANZAC home, the main overseas German naval base. Aussies will never accept island going to Japan. The solution is simple, the ANZAC forces used in Gallipoli will be used to take Tsingtao in 1915. It will be a slow but successful attack. Now think about someone like Churchill being told that he can't do Gallipolli because the Aussies overruled him. BTW, I am assuming Aussies and NZ can agree to a Pacific strategy. And even though in the long run, the British Empire will be much better off for not giving Japan an opening into China, the English will resent this decision.

4) Canada is fairly easy early on, but I think they will be more concerned with the American objections to the blockade. It is not a big issue that can't be fixed, it is just the attitude change for a PM or Sea Lord to have colonials tell them they can't do X or Y is a big one.

5) It will not be called Affirmative action, but I bet there will be huge fights over the number of flag officers in the Army and Navy. The white settlers colonies are over 1/3 of population. Did they have anywhere near 1/3 of 3 star and 4 star ranks.

6) When we get to end, we have more parties at ToV. It makes for even harder negotiations.
 
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